Bitless option for horse that crowhops/plays

[Paisley_Pony]

I honestly don’t know if it has a core in it, but it’s not soft or floppy. It has a tiny bit of give, but it’s mostly stiff and has a bite to it.

I ride in open spaces, too (not enough room for hay fields AND an arena), and I’ve never been worried about having enough stop with this noseband. Several years ago I read a blog by someone who had attended a cross country clinic with a BNR. The writer’s thoroughbred was misbehaving and the BNR had her remove her bit and use a spare hackamore noseband that he kept on hand, and she had a much better ride. I wish I could remember which blog it was. I’ve also heard others talk about foxhunting in them. At the end of the day, though, the only thing that matters is what you feel secure using and what your horse listens to best.

[NaturalSelection]

I went off the deep end and I ride my horses exclusively in a rope halter. One because he is allergic to dormosedan/xylazine drugs and has a wolf tooth that can’t be removed, the other because we’re casual and do a lot of hack and snack to chill/reward when we’re tooling around the hay field.

I have modified my rope halter slightly and @fivestrideline might like these mods as well.
Reins connected to bottom are not as clear as I’d like for lateral flexion. Reins connected near side knots can twist halter. I added extra loops to side knots so rein actually hangs about halfway between side knot and bottom. I can get a really nice soft feel in this setup, almost like riding in a traditional bridle.

If you zoom in on the photo below, you can see the loops that allow the rings to hang back from the nose knots.

IMG_2927|666x500

[endlessclimb]

Hack and snack! I love that!

That’s my favorite part about a horse graduating to a hackmore for trails. Letting them eat with reckless abandon.

I ride my Old Man in a little S unless we’re ponying someone, in which case we switch back to the simple Spanish curb - when I’m ponying I need whoa to mean whoa-right-the-eff-now, and though he’s never pushed it I like the security.

[NaturalSelection]

I think I might like to try something stronger. We have a good one rein stop but it would be nice to have another tool available. I have a super soft leather hackamore but it’s less effective than the stiff rope halter. Good tip!

[Jackie_Cochran]

I LIKE your solution!

If I were not transfixed by how the horse manipulates the bit with its tongue, this would be so ideal for true adventures outside of the ring. Clear quickly released signals (aids), with the rein action in a direction that the horse has not developed any resistances to its use.

Good for just bopping around on your horse.

[fivestrideline]

@Paisley_Pony

I honestly don’t know if it has a core in it, but it’s not soft or floppy. It has a tiny bit of give, but it’s mostly stiff and has a bite to it.

Okay interesting! I may have to pick one up. Doesn’t look like they’re terribly expensive.

@NaturalSelection

I added extra loops to side knots so rein actually hangs about halfway between side knot and bottom

Oh I like that! I think I saw someone who made them like this - maybe on Etsy or similar. That may be an option. I’ve also seen just the top of the nose part with rings for sale at TSC - that plus a leather curb strap on my hack bridle may work .

In fairness, I really want this horse in a bit (so we can do dressage and hunters) BUT I do like to ride bitless pretty regularly anyway. So it’s worth the effort to find something that works.

[fivestrideline]

Update: tried the Hybrid Halter with reins clipped to the side rings. 10/10, best so far!

I felt much more comfortable with the lateral steering and the brakes were tested by the horses in the pasture next to a narrow trail coming galloping up behind us. He got snorty and hot for a second but I bumped him once with it and I felt like I had enough should I need it. He really is a good egg and came right back to a loose rein, even if he was lit up a bit . Honestly a testament to how good of a brain he has more than anything.

One bad thing is the crownpiece slides back down his neck over time - a fault of it being a halter and not a bridle with browband or ear loop. I may cobble together a rope nose piece and rope or leather chin piece to go on a bridle and try that, if I can source all the parts.

[Bonnie2]

Or put a brow and on the halter.

[fivestrideline]

I could! But it’s not my halter . I try to put everything back exactly how I found it.

Maybe someday I’ll spring for my own hybrid halter, but those things are very overpriced in my opinion. If I can make something that works for cheaper than a halter + browband that would fit, I’d be thrilled! Or maybe I’ll find a used one.

[Paisley_Pony]

Would something like this work? https://www.etsy.com/listing/689724507/knotted-rope-side-pull-hackamore?click_key=5ee7ce24a4639b31e2fa93d1c937b17fefc46cf9%3A689724507&click_sum=cf65eb84&ref=search2_top_narrowing_intent_modules_top_rated-5&frs=1&sts=1 It can connect to your bridle and has the knots like a rope halter. I’ve ordered from her before, and she does good work.

[fivestrideline]

Oh, maybe! Thanks, I’ll take a look!

[fivestrideline]

Well, I just bought this:

Which is the nosepiece to this bridle:

I already have a leather curb strap, and I think the nosepiece + curb will fit on my hackamore bridle in place of the leather side pull noseband:

If the leather curb/chin strap doesn’t work, a wrapped chain curb strap or DIY rope one should be easy enough to get.

Bonus of this setup is it won’t look entirely out of place should I take him to a jumper schooling, XC day or lesson in it. Which shouldn’t matter, but it does to me!

[Alterration]

I just skipped to the end, so pardon me if someone said this already, but I ride my “fusses a lot but also sometimes bucks horse” in two reins. One on a cavesson with a formed metal (not serreta) noseband so it doesn’t twist and one on an eggbutt snaffle. We do contact in the noseband but I have the egg butt for emergency use. That will eventually switch to a curb which he will be ridden on exclusively when he is adequately schooled. He does not prefer bar pressure so we have to be very careful. All bets are off when he is being a dork though.

It’s a very traditional setup in Doma Vaquera and Western traditions (although they use the jaquima/bosalito and spade in that world) and it is nice to have in the toolbox when you have a horse with suspected mouth issues.

Just a thought!

[fivestrideline]

Interesting!

Right now the rope nose is working (including through some crowhop tantrums today when the deer were rusting around in the woods 🫠). One of the reasons I took him bitless was because he twists his head to the left pretty bad with ANY rein contact, including in side reins on the lunge (done diagnostically).

FWIW, he has gone from wonky everywhere and unable to walk downhill in a straight line to being much more in control of himself - but the right stifle slips sometimes. He also has improved his posture drastically but will stand with the right hind forward a bit and turned out maybe 80% of the time. Previously he was camped under and turning out on both hinds. I’m wondering if the left head twist and stubborn right stifle are related, and therefore haven’t pushed it about the bit quite yet, since the rope nose is working.

[Alterration]

Awesome!!! Well done. I found with the bosal on my noodles I got such better shoulder control. The head did weird stuff, but the bosal took all of that away because it took away the emphasis on the mouth. It felt weird to be able to get to the shoulders without issue but I took it!!

I hope for continued success!

[red_mares]

Have you ever used a mouthing bridle? Just put bit on him in a stall and then ignore him for an hour or so. We use an old dry-rotted rein, cut to fit and rivet the bit in place. If the horse happens to get stuck on something, it will break or come off.

An old trainer pointed out that a horse learns to wear a bridle by wearing a bridle. If you leave a bit in their mouth for a while, they just get over it.

[Clov3rLily]

Do you by chance know why his stifle slips? Just thought it was interesting that you mention it, especially because we had stifle issues that turned into something different once we took a deeper look.

[IPEsq]

Very likely related. It’s an evasion to throughness in the contact often from the diagonal hind. Occasionally a tooth component as well, but head tilt to the left and weak/sore/NQR right hind definitely checks out. By putting pressure on the nose, you are encouraging his feet to follow his nose a bit more. But he’s still likely lacking connection.

[fivestrideline]

@Clov3rLily

Do you by chance know why his stifle slips?

So he doesn’t flex off on it and his X-ray doesn’t show anything alarming - maybe a slightly flatter outer area of the joint (gosh I need to go look up my anatomy again). Vet says to work him and I asked about estrone and Adequan/Legend just for funsies. That’s coming down the pipeline, but “why” seems to be “he’s butt high and unfit and that stifle is the maybe-slightly-different-but-not-injured stifle”.

@IPEsq

Very likely related. It’s an evasion to throughness in the contact often from the diagonal hind. Occasionally a tooth component as well, but head tilt to the left and weak/sore/NQR right hind definitely checks out. By putting pressure on the nose, you are encouraging his feet to follow his nose a bit more. But he’s still likely lacking connection.

This is essentially what I’ve decided. And why I haven’t pushed it with the bit yet! I want to get him fitter and make sure that stifle is comfy first.

At the moment he happily hacks around bitless and is starting to reach a little and push from behind vs donkeying around. I’ll revisit the bit once I’m happy he’s got the idea. It doesn’t help that my schedule has been WILD for no reason and he’s had more time off than usual.

[Clov3rLily]

Did you also have his hocks and SI looked x-rayed? Asking because issues can be caused in the stifle from both of those, at least with our horse. I just thought it was weirdly similar to what was going on with her, could totally be something different though. Fitness really helped my horse but she had a hard time getting fit while her stifles were slipping, it got to the point where she couldn’t canter without basically falling over. After a month of vet checks, starting with the vet suspecting her SI because of the stifle soreness/slipping , we found out that her hocks were fusing. I hope that it’s just a fitness issue for you and not something more serious, adequan should help you out.