Interesting. My friend has a young Vitalis mare and says the same thing about her temperament.
The TB doesnāt give good quality if you donāt have good dams, just like any other breed or stallion. Iām confused by this statement because objectively it isnāt true. Your registry of choice stands several TB stallions because they improve the mare base. You said Contender was a very good stallion. He was. He gave his best offspring through TB or high blood mares.
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No i donāt see what horses you have. I didnāt put words in your mouth. You are extremely opinionated. Breed whatever you want to breed. Stop slanging stallions that you donāt like. Itās called class.
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My jazz mare is out of a Contender dam. Iām out.
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Exactly. Breeders didnāt find out with his first several foal crops. He needed a mare with high blood percentage. Contender.
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The dam line is unrecognizable to me. Would be very interesting to have someine come on and comment. Thanks for posting.
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I remember Dueker when Graf Bae Farm had him. He was a very large, heavy, powerful, elastic stallion that would be considered terribly old fashioned these days. He was very light footed in spite of his size and had a very good disposition. I think he was purchased to mainly breed with TB mares which was what we had in this country at the time. So I imagine the dam line was probably rather old style warm blood mostly.
To the original questionāthe horses bred now can be a great blend of movement and rideability. (For myself, I love Vitalis, Toto Jr and other Totilas sons, Furst Heinrich and progeny, Desperados FRH, Morricone, Belissimo M, and many others). But there are also many average horses resulting from super breeding. So yes, there are great dressage lines, but when you get down to it, itās about the conformation of the specific horse that gives the advantage, and then the training. The super moving and rideable purpose bred horses are susceptible to riders and trainers asking for too much too soon.
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No you breed f1 produktā¦ just like here in the 50/60 ā¦
They are very different in typeā¦ and not uniform in breeding those offspring ā¦ cause they are bred 2 very different types.
TB arent good. As they are build to canter/run. They are having horizontal neck build. Most weight is on the front. And they dont have power from behindā¦
So in dressage an jumping not good.
For cross country they are fine. They have to run en jump some fences ā¦
But a mare with 50 % tb in her pedigree from 3/6 th generation is different then a mare who had full tb as father or mother!!
If you have a good uniform breeding dam and you cross that with full TB . You dont get the negative things on a TB in offspring. Cause the uniform damline trows 70% of her qualityā¦
Have you ever seen the xx tbās used in kwpn german breedingā¦
There are a few good ones. And if you find them in pedigree cottage sun. Consul Ladykiller anblick. Son in lawā¦ the tb from the 80 70 60 and earlierā¦
And i know people from north america are different then dutch people. That has nothing to do with classā¦
We have an opinion here. And are saying what we think how we breed. Just to be clear. And let people know how a horse should look.like in conformation. To be in harmony. And on all levels of dressage that can be the best!!! That has nothing to do with classā¦
Im.not a person who believes in the fairytails that all the aproved stallions on gp dressage level are superb!! Cause they or notā¦ if you have the knowlegde and eye to see it!!!
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Dream.on katisā¦ my.opinion i give. Everybody can do with it whatever he/she wants.
You can learn from it good or negative wayā¦
You can block me never read some of.my stuff againā¦
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@sigrid.sijtsma I appreciate your point of view and am off verifying my mareās relatives to see if she is consistent with what they produce.
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also search for photos of the dam of you mare, in 4 generations dam line, photos of them, then if you have photos of the side of the damās you can see their type, and if the type is the same, then you know if she is uniformly breeding her type or not. also you can see on photos offspring of all the dam 4 generations, and see how they lookā¦ if you have the possibility to get those photos.info of the offsping of the dams in 4 generations.
then you know more about damline and what type they have, and if it is consistanly trown at their offspring, when the sires are not the same.
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https://horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/2047278/dorte
here it shows 1 more dam more.
you can also put your horse on horsetelex.com as a offspring of dorte
here it shows that dorte has a sister,
here it shows dorte had 2 offspring
mabel and waldfee
Mabel had here 3 childeren
before she got Caprice. in 1997
if you click on the 3 you can see sportresult and who owned/ride them, so you can get more info about the sisters/brothers of Caprice.
also you can see photos of dueker and maybe other sires in her pedigree
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Back off. I have no interest in your thoughts or interacting with you.
Wow, this is so cool, thank you! I lost Caprice very suddenly at the age of 23 and miss her every day. I never dreamed Iād have an opportunity to have a horse like her
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Well. I thught the Egyptian Arabian breeders were something, but you warmblood folks make them look like amateursā¦
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Ok. Iāve been told about you on Facebook. Done. Blocked and reported. This sub forum used to be an amazing plase for knowledge.
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Ok I am getting confused about the problems hereā¦. I bought a foal 2 years ago and thatās exactly what I didā¦. I liked the foal but did research her pedigree before I bought herā¦ whatās bad about it?
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It still is 
ā¦or can beā¦sometimes.
I have no skin in this game since I no longer have WBās nor do I have much interest in them/breeding them, but I can appreciate a quality horse and discussions around breeding. You will get some breeders with very strong opinions. I donāt know Sigrid from a hole in the wall but sheās not alone in her opinions, especially her opinion of Jazz and certain things re TBās and Arabian influences.
Iām surrounded by Warmbloods and Warmblood breeding - I live in Germany and board at a place that breeds WBās, plus thereās a state stud a few minutes away. So I do like to chat a bit about it and learn what I can from time to time. Some have very strong opinions that I donāt necessarily agree with, but thatās life. Itās just like with Totilas for example, you get lovers of Totilas and haters, both on quite extreme ends of the spectrum. You are allowed to think and express as you please, just as someone else is re breeding. There are some (like 2) posters I have on ignore because theyāre not worth my time, and some I just see their name and generally scroll.
Iāve heard a lot of negative or tongue in cheek stuff (re attitude) about Jazz over the years, but I tend to buy the horse in front of me. While I wouldnāt shop for a Jazz offspring specially, if I liked the horse and they were by Jazz, it wouldnāt totally dissuade me, and of course Iād consider the Dam. I like sensitive smart types, but thereās a line there. There is sensitive (generally towards their handler/rider), intelligent, and thereās hot, rude, or just a bit much and people say āoh but he/sheās just sensitiveā so I find that people have differing definitions there, and that can be a bit of a hang up.
Warmblood breeders can be extremely passionate (just like with other breeders) and proud. I will say here in Germany many TBās I see arenāt nearly as nice as what you can buy off the track for a few grand in the USA. So that may be an influence here too. I go back and forth about this with a friend and sheās quite interested in what pops up for sale in the US (on CANTER, FLF, and other off track orgs) because theyāre often nicer looking than what is for sale here for twice the price. So her idea of a TB for anything other than racing was quite dismissive at first. Some also arenāt aware that there are a few out there bred for sport that are quite nice. Sure not as many as WBās, but theyāre out there.
Youāll always get someone who doesnāt like x stallion/x breeding lines. Itās just part of breeding. Is it a lack of āclassā maybe, especially depending on how they express themselves, but theyāre entitled to the view and if I donāt like it, then whatever. People can rag on my PREās lines all day long if they want to, but I bought the suitable for the job horse in front of me, and heās a gelding so I couldnāt care less.
People get really proud, so when someone disses a sire, I get why theyāre offended. Especially because the prices of these horses, specifically in the USA can be eyewatering. Thereās also some (or there was years ago when I was around) odd status thing associated with owning a WB in the USA. Itās possible this has died a bit because they seem to be much more common now.
Anyway, my point is, people have different (strong) opinions re breeding. Itās often a waste of time and energy to get offended or try to change that personās opinion if youāre satisfied with your horse and proud of the breeding, thatās fine. Sometimes you can learn from an opposing view or it can be food for thought, other times, its not. Getting oddly personal is not worth it for either side. Idk what you found out via FB, nor do I really care, but I get that youāre ādoneā There is still much to learn and read around this sub forum though. Yes, I donāt think itās as great as it used to be, but Iām on another forum that has declined a bit and gone more toward hobby riding at the lower levels (nothing wrong with that!) and day to day small chatter. Itās an interesting shift and makes me wonder why it has taken place sometimes. Possibly because more armchair experts came out and no actual experts want to deal with that 
I donāt know.
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