Boarder stops paying for horse - WWYD?

[J-Lu]

Hi all,

Asking for a friend, really!

The situation: Boarder comes to barn 3-4 years ago and has horse in training with resident trainer for 3-5 months for a “tune up”. She was very busy with work and hardly came out, but came out for trimming and vet visits. She started her own business about 2 years ago and came out less and less. For the last year or so, owner hasn’t come out, horse hasn’t seen vet (no vaccines or Coggins, etc.), I don’t think has seen a trimmer in a year (draft feet seem to chip to stay in reasonable shape, and sometime in the last year the owner stopped paying board.

I hear she’s pregnant now.

The horse lives outside in a herd of 5-6, and the barn owners feed her grain twice daily and hay in winter. They’ve been taking care of the horse but want the horse and owner to go.

Questions:

1. What would you do from a business perspective? Cut your losses and try to evict them? What if she says she can’t afford the horse anymore and can’t move it?

2. What would you do from a horse-lover perspective? My friends can afford to feed this horse and wouldn’t want it to be, say, sold for slaughter. They used to work with a horse rescue and the horse could go there or they can try to sell it for $500-$1000, but I said they’d likely be looking at giving the horse away. One of my friends thinks he can recoup some losses, but I don’t think he can.

My friends are compassionate and really care about the horses but they do run a business. I don’t think they’d sue this horse owner. This is the first dead-beat owner they’ve encountered.

How would you handle this situation? How do you think my friends (given what I wrote above) should handle this situation?

Thanks for all opinions/feedback!

[furlong47]

Most states have a lien law which outlines the steps that legally must be followed. Typically this involves some sort of notice and then auctioning the horse (note that you can usually hold your own auction). The horse cannot just be given away because it does not belong to the BO. The only other way to legally circumvent the lien process would be to convince the owner to sign over ownership of the horse.

In order, I’d try

• cut your losses and get owner to move the horse (then possibly go after them in small claims court for money owed)
• if they say they can’t, see if they’ll sign horse over (and again, after horse is secured, small claims)
• if they won’t do either of those things, you need to look up your state’s law and follow the steps

The law you are looking for will be called something similar to agister’s lien, stableman’s lien, or in some cases covered under innkeeper’s act

[OverandOnward]

Not being the barn owners and knowing their entire situation, which might change the answers …

1. I would accept that I am never getting all the money this owner owes. I will be happy with what I can get, and with the horse leaving OR becoming mine. Before this acceptance is in my mind, it is hard to come up with any solution that will actually happen. AND I make sure that she is not able to sneak the horse out, whatever that entails.

2. I would go to the courthouse or online and see what legal/financial problems she and/or hubby are having that have gotten to that point, and how current those problems are. And what real estate she and/or owns (you won’t be able to tell how much equity she has in it, though). Just for background information that will help me later.

3. Since likely she now owes several thousand to me (the barn owner), I would talk to an attorney and find out what the attorney can do to recover it, and what it would cost. The attorney will be better and fast at this than I am. It is worth a few hundred in attorney costs to recover thousands. Including seizing the horse – the attorney will know how to do it as quickly as it can legally be done. AND, I would leave attorney’s office with a paper that the owner and I can both sign that will legally transfer the horse to me, just in case I have a chance to use it. Maybe some other unsigned paperwork as well, just in case.

4. I would track down the owner if I have to turn up at her house or her job. I would be relentless. I would not care who knew I was looking, or if they knew why. Even if we converse loudly on the sidewalk, or in a hall in her office building. I would have with me a statement showing what she owes, and tell her that she has to pay it all before she can move her horse.

5. During the discussion, I would let her know the deadline (like a week) before I begin the procedure to seize her horse. (This is all in writing for her as well.) If she runs away without talking, or if I can’t find her, I begin seizure proceedings. If she talks, I consider offering to let her pay a lesser amount if it is paid and the horse is gone within a week. Another alternative is that if she signs the horse over to me right now, notarized, I will forgive the debt and we are done.I have the paperwork ready for every alternative at this time, and know where to get a notary right now (my nearest bank branch might help). So everything can be signed and notarized so she can’t claim I forged her signature later.

6. If we end up with an agreement to pay first and then move the horse within a week BUT she doesn’t do it, I begin procedures to seize the horse. No talking/wheedling/excuses on her part will delay this.

If she says the word LATER, as in “I’ll pay $X now and $X LATER”, the answer is NO. We already know there will be no “later”. “Later” is how people get away with not paying. They keep deferring the payment. The person they owe who can’t accept that they will never pay ends up waiting forever.

Also, I would make this the top priority to resolve now. The more time that passes, the more that she owes, the harder this is for her to resolve. So that makes it harder for me to resolve as well.

That’s what I would do. My answer might change depending on personal details of the barn owners.

At the very least the BO’s have to start dunning her regularly. If they don’t they may end up in a disadvantageous legal situation.

One thing: No matter how sad the story she tells (and she may have some real problems), that just can’t be my problem. I don’t have the wherewithal to support her problems. I have to put solving my problems first. I can speak nicely to her but I’m going ahead anyway to protect myself.

[J-Lu]

These are incredibly helpful posts. I sent this link to my friends, and they don’t need a COTH account to view. Thanks so much!

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

My reading of the situation from what was posted:
The owner of the horse is no longer interested in owning the horse. She is not even interested enough in the horse to make it a priority in her very busy life to sell or otherwise rehome the horse. She probably had good intentions when she acquired the horse, but you know what road those intentions pave.

In a situation like this, if the barn owners want to make it easy for all to move forward, I say they should make it easy for the horse owner to relinquish ownership to them. They can proceed from there to rehome the horse or send it to the rescue or whatever. Suing for money owed etc sounds like a big hassle but might be worth the effort if the amount is substantial.

[Snowdenfarm]

Very helpful posts. If they are not interested in dollar compensation, it would be easiest to send a letter asking the owner to relinquish the horse to the barn owner. It should include a zero dollar purchase and sale agreement for the owner to sign and return in an enclosed self-addressed, stamped envelope.

[Displaced_Yankee]

Here is a different idea for the barn owner to give them some control and recoup some costs:

Ask the boarder to sign Dobbin over to them for $1. Barn owner can then get the feet done, up to date on vaccines and market the horse for sale. The boarder gets the proceeds after the barn owner take out the cost of vet, farrier and unpaid feed costs.

This allows the barn owner to have a say in where the horse goes and do their best to make sure Dobbin gets a soft landing. Being up to date on feet and vaccines makes him more saleable.

To make this agreement more enticing to the boarder I suggest only recouping feed costs, not board. Even then, that may eat up all of your friend’s sale proceeds.

Just an idea.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I agree with all this @Displaced_Yankee ! Obviously, this sucks raw eggs for the barn owner, but from the horse’s perspective, this would be the happiest outcome. In a way, the worst situations are when boarders keep paying board, but are deadbeats about getting the horse exercised, trimmed, proper vet care, grooming, and such, and the BO is in the uncomfortable position of seeing a horse getting progressively sicker/squirrelly. It’s why I understand BOs having strict requirements about vet/farrier care in boarding contracts. (Maybe something to consider for the BO in future, that as soon as the owner stops getting the horse vaccinated and regularly trimmed, even if she’s paying board, that’s grounds for eviction.)

I agree the first step is finding the owner. If the owner doesn’t respond ASAP to text/email/calls, then see an attorney (and let the owner know you’ll be doing this in the communication) and get the attorney to communicate with her.

The owner’s level of compliance and desire to get out of the situation will depend how the BO moves forward. Owner may happily sign over the horse, or she may be “Pooky is my heart horse, life has been difficult, that’s why I haven’t been out, I have nowhere to go.” Which, of course, is total bullshit, but people with that kind of bullshit means a attorney is necessary. I’m willing to bet, however, that actually getting the horse off property won’t be easy, given I doubt may other barns will welcome her with open arms and rescues are full.

[fordtraktor]

From a business perspective there is no good answer here. As a BO, the last thing I want is this neglected and probably worthless horse, but that’s probably what the end result will be

Follow the stableman’s lien procedures and get out from under the horse.

And take this as an expensive lesson—in my boarding contract I specify that horses must receive routine care, including dental, vaccines, and farrier work. If an owner stopped doing these I will kick them out quickly. Nothing good comes of sitting on your hands while a boarder isn’t paying their horse bills. Plus I don’t want horses on my property that are neglected, and I don’t want unvaccinated horses in my herds. It is a liability.

I also have significant late fees in my contract, so by this time it would be worth it for me to go to court and get a judgment. Something else to consider adding.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Yes, absolutely not blaming the BO for the owner’s neglect, but from the OP’s original post, she noted the horse came in for training, so presumably this isn’t a rough board situation, the nonpayment happened sometime last year, and the neglect started long before that. The horse must be in bad shape, and also, this has been going on for a long time, when presumably a bill-paying boarder could be taking this horse’s slot.

[SMF11]

Send the bill to a collection agency.

[endlessclimb]

@fordtraktor

I don’t want unvaccinated horses in my herds

If I were a boarder at this farm, this right here would have me quite pissed.

I’ve had a go-round with a fellow boarder trying this and I gave them the what-for about how selfish it is to keep a horse in a communal setting and try to cut corners this way. I think I guilted him into finding the money. That’s a hard no.

[Posting_Trot]

The BO should not sell the horse, or give it to a rescue, or give the horse away to a private person without having acquired legal ownership of the horse. They can do this either by getting the owner to sell the horse to the BO for $1 or by going through the process of putting a lien on the horse. (Here’s a legal law blogpost on the stablemen’s lien: https://www.equinelawblog.com/Stablemens-Lien-Laws-What-They-Are).

Anecdote: previous barn owner had a pony boarded with her. The owner’s daughter (for whom the pony was bought) was too old/no longer interested and for a while, the owner allowed the BO to use the pony in lessons to offset some of the board. But after a couple of years, the owner stopped being in communication with the BO, stopped looking after the routine stuff for the pony, etc., and stopped paying what she owed.

Meanwhile, the BO was moving and downsizing the herd. She needed the pony gone. She found a fine home for the pony with a friend who had a daughter and gave the pony to her. 6 months later, who shows up at the new barn but the original owner, who then is flaming mad about the pony being gone. She took the BO to court, produced papers that showed that the pony was registered Welsh and had paid significant money for the pony, etc. She won. BO was told that she could counter-sue for the unpaid board, etc., but she ultimately didn’t because it was going to be a major hassle.

Moral of the story: the BO should have gotten a stablemen’s lien which would have at least allowed her to give the pony away, even if she never recovered other costs.

[J-Lu]

Thank you to EVERYONE who posted. I shared this link with my friends so they can see the responses (they are not members of the board). It’s a situation no one wants go experience, but is obviously a reality if you own a barn and have some boarders.

THANK YOU!

Please keep the advice coming, and hopefully the BOs will “lurk” on this thread.

[J-Lu]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Yes, absolutely not blaming the BO for the owner’s neglect, but from the OP’s original post, she noted the horse came in for training, so presumably this isn’t a rough board situation, the nonpayment happened sometime last year, and the neglect started long before that. The horse must be in bad shape, and also, this has been going on for a long time, when presumably a bill-paying boarder could be taking this horse’s slot.

She did come in originally for training. All of the horses live outside 24/7 but are independently fed to their individual requirements and have dedicated stalls for inclement weather. That herd of 5-6 horses are on the sacrificed pasture because many are fat. I should say “easy keepers”. The other pastures contain 1-4 horses, depending on the size. No one is starving at this barn, and the horse is in good shape because the BOs make sure of that. No horse on their property suffers. And yes, they’d rather a paying boarder who cares for their horse!!

[anon29046226]

Why are you boarding at a place that doesn’t know how to handle basic business concepts? Sorry not trying to be a d*ck but wut?

So for your “friend” I’d offer to figure out how to run a business after this situation so she doesn’t need a boarder taking it to a BB.
ETA: demand payment and then do a lien.

[J-Lu]

@anon29046226

Why are you boarding at a place that doesn’t know how to handle basic business concepts? Sorry not trying to be a d*ck but wut?

So for your “friend” I’d offer to figure out how to run a business after this situation so she doesn’t need a boarder taking it to a BB.

Ummm, my friend has a MBA and both have day jobs with pretty successful positions in business in large companies. They both know how to handle basic business concepts.

I’ll again say that they are concerned about the horse because they are compassionate people and animals are involved. The horse has been on their property for years. Some people are actually compassionate and care some.

I’m really happy to be a friend that cares enough to solicit advice that may help them on this horse board. I really like to help out my friends and this thread has provided a lot of good ideas.

Sorry, but I think you really were trying to be a d*ck.

[anon29046226]

Put a lien on the horse, paperwork trail, announce auction buy horse.

I’m not suggesting your friend ignores and starves the horse, but they need to start the paperwork. My apologies but I thought the process was well known.

Now I understand the hemming and hawing if the person with said horse is a friend but business is pretty straightforward. Sorry if that’s an crappy response

In most places so long as the auction is advertised your friend is well within the right to buy the horse.

But whatever your friend with an MBA needs a friend to post on a BB about a business matter My question is why are they concerned about the horse? Are they refusing hay and water because the owner hasn’t paid?

[J-Lu]

Yes, that was a crappy response. So is this one.

My friend didn’t need me to do anything. I did it myself. Don’t you have friends who will help you without you asking? I suspect not from your post.

You may not understand the concept but they are concerned with all horses on their property. They are empathetic and good people. Look up those two concepts to better understand the situation.

Suffice it to say, they don’t think like you do. I don’t think like you do. I suspect that’s why the BOs and me are good friends and you don’t understand why.

Thanks for your input.

[anon29046226]

No I don’t post online about my friends troubles without them asking me to do so. I don’t post for my own curiosity either. I also would be raging if I was your friend and I found out you brought this to the internet.

Regardless I’m sorry I didn’t come off more sympathetic. It sounded kinda fake. Anyway your friend doesn’t need to neglect the horse in order to recover monies and ensure the horse has a soft landing.