I should also add in, I don’t have a set feeding time. I like a calm barn when I’m in there. I’m never in a rush to feed at night. I usually clean stalls and ride before feeding. If a horse gets too excited and thinks he is going to get fed then I’ll give him some tie time while I’m out there. Only time I feed at a set time is weekdays because I’m going to work. Weekends they all wait a extra 2 hours in the morning before they get fed. Until I hit that barn and open up the doors they are all very calm.
I only remove the hay and leave him with 3 flakes in his stall. The owner will put half a bale 6+ flakes in there while I’m at work and he’s outside. She thinks he needs that much even though he’s getting a hay belly. He’s very well fed at my place.
I don’t do beet pulp! My vet has done a bunch of surgeries to remove “sludge” that was caused because of beet pulp. She said she would never feed it to her own horse because of how dangerous it is! Another girl at my barn also knows someone that had to have the same surgery done on her horse because of it.
He could have ulcers because of the way his attitude is. He’s always on edge and very very aggressive! I’ve never met a horse that you cannot trust like I have this horse! They gelded him at 5 years old because they could not handle him as a stud.
I’d put his hay in a slow feed net so the same amount takes longer to eat, and ask his owner to have him scoped for ulcers then.
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Did the new behavior start when you began removing some of the hay the boarder put out? An already ulcer prone horse would not do well with no hay from 10 pm to whenever you feed in the morning.
A slow feed net seems very appropriate in this situation.
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Honestly it’s hard to tell when they eat and how long they are without from the above, I did my best to piece the info together from your posts…
He could be aggressive and pawing cause he has ulcers from not having anything in his stomach… horses graze like 23 hours a day in nature… being w/o hay from 10 at night until whatever time you get there in the a.m., 7?.. and 2 hours later on weekends… and then all day on turnout until 7 p.m. [in summer?] w/o hay or grass too? … may not suit his needs.
I am a big fan of nibble nets if you are worried about him eating too much, too fast, or being messy/wasting hay
BTW Yo, my TB who was 16HH about 1000#, used to eat a bale of hay a day… and he was not fat.
ETA if you like a calm barn, you might find a routine with set times that the horses can expect ___ to happen, is a path to just that. Not knowing can be very upsetting and stressful.
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You should read Brians post on the ‘how soon should I see my horse gain wt’ thread regarding the importance of chewing, and saliva to resolving/preventing ulcers
ETA he said I could steal it, so here it is… VERY interesting…
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This is kind of a shot in the dark…but you say he wasn’t gelded until he was five and that this is a new behavior. Is there by any chance a mare in heat in the barn? I have a gelding who showed no studdish behaviors at all when he was kept with geldings (all the mares were further away on the other side of a riding arena). However, I moved to a place with extremely limited horse boarding options and have no choice now but to have him in a paddock with some mares. He’s fine most of the time and I can generally walk/ride him away from them. However, he will get very attached to them for a few days when they are in heat and will paw and whinny if he can’t see them. He doesn’t try to mount them or anything but the scent makes him want to be near them. Some geldings can be a bit studdish, especially if neutered late.
Another thought - there is a sea of mud in my horses’ pasture this time of year and thrush is a concern. I ordered some Keratex spray-on hoof disinfectant as a preventative. Maybe if you suggest something like that she’d be more open to having him on 24-7 turnout.
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Horse behaviors like this usually have causes at their roots. I second the idea of a slow feeder net if you are unwilling to allow her to feed him enough poundage (or flakes–however you see it) of hay to keep him quiet and occupied throughout the night. I would suspect he is definitely bored. I would also suspect that there isn’t enough of a sponge of hay in the lower lined portion of his stomach to keep the acid from splashing up on the unlined walls of the stomach, creating ulcers. By taking away his hay you are not only adding to the problem, shooting yourself in the foot for your pm sleep. Mares in heat would also stir up this activity. I would suggest one of thee paths: let him have his hay, allow the boarder to use a slow feed haynet, or suggest she move her horse to a place with a better fit so everyone wins. jmo.
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Honestly, the more you explain, the more this horse sounds like a bad fit for your barn and your style of horse keeping. Can he go somewhere else?
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I don’t like to kick people out. I’ll try to work out whats going on with the horse, see if we can make changes. If it got to the point where he was keeping me awake multiple times a week then I would ask them to find some place with barn not next to a house so he couldn’t keep someone awake during the night.
I also asked her if he’s been scoped for ulcers… and he has. And he came back totally fine. So ulcers is not the issue. I think its more of a studish behavior problem he’s having. I wonder if a mare in my barn is possibly in heat? There is one that he can see from his stall. But when I turn him out next to my mare and gelding (not turned out with them but they share the same water) he’s totally fine out there. She doesn’t come up to him or try to flirt with him. So wondering because this came on so sudden if the horse in the barn is in heat and he smells her and is getting upset and frustrated? I’ll see if his attitude changes when she possibly gets sold on Thursday…
I touched his belly and sides today while he was tied in his stall, and even pressing on him sets him off! He pins his ears at you and is very vocal! I can’t believe how sensitive he is and how grumpy he gets just by touching him!
So… any ideas to stop the pawing if it does occur again? Someone said to hang jingle bells in the stall on the walls that he paws on, see if that might scare him to make him stop. That might be worth a try…
Just because he scoped clear for ulcers once doesn’t mean he is immune to ulcers forever.
Before trying random things just give the poor guy more hay or the same amount in a slow feeder.
It may be in everyone’s best interest if you kindly ask your boarder to start looking for a barn that better caters to this horses needs. Clearly you are more concerned with your sleep than this animals welfare.
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In addition to pursuing the inquiries and remedies mentioned, may I also suggest you put stall mats on his stall walls? It will protect the horse, protect the walls, and help you get more sleep. Just hang them high enough that they absorb his pawing/kicking.
Yes, I know this for a fact. 
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How am I concerned with my sleep more than the animals welfare? The horse IS catered to! He roughly 35-40# of hay a day. Thats more than the recommended amount for his size. He’s not skinny. He gets a ton of turnout time. Hes blanketed when needed, bell boots when he goes out. The horse is spoiled! I’m not a large boarding facility, so a do cater to the horses needs.
I’m looking for IDEAS with pawing. The horse was just scoped before he came to me. He doesn’t have ulcers.
Hung mats by his feeder already. May have to try the entire stall.
I tried to stress to the owner that he could easily get bone chips or broken legs from how hard he’s been pawing. Thats what I’m worried about the most.
And yet your proposed solution is to HOBBLE him? Unsupervised? For long stretches of time? Yeah, absolutely nothing can go catastrophically wrong THERE.
This horse is without hay from 7 am - 7 pm while in turnout. You want him done with his hay by 10 pm. And on the weekends he gets an additional couple hours in the morning with no hay, while waiting for breakfast. He has SO little time to actually eat. And you’re surprised that he’s upset? 
:no:
Poor guy. Just keep hay in front of him. It’s really not that hard. It’s kind of a tenet of horse keeping. They’re grazing animals, designed to eat for the bulk of the day.
Yeah, it sure does sound like he has ulcers–likely from your management style. Doesn’t matter that he didn’t before…unless he was scoped yesterday?
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How is that giving him little time to eat?? He’s turned outside at 7am with his morning feeding. He has as long as he wants to eat. Again he’s fed at 7pm inside his stall with his hay. I figured by 10pm on average he’s done eating. I don’t take ghrbhay out of his stall… not sure where you came up with that. That’s not bad management. On top of this he gets roughly 2 flAkes during the day after his owner works him.
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I think this is a bit unfair. OP says this is a relatively new behavior, and has taken the time to post here for ideas. I agree that a slow feeder with plenty of hay is a good start. So is a vet check.
However, beyond the nighttime noise, I would not be keen to deal with an ill-mannered late-gelded studdish horse. Is the owner willing to put in the time to install some proper ground manners on him? And/or, be ok if the OP does? If not, then I would ask the boarder to move.
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It doesn’t matter if the horse is getting more hay for his size or not. Exercise is also a big influence on the amount of hay and calories.
The bottom line is if the horse is out of hay by 10pm then he isn’t getting enough hay
. A hay belly is not caused by too much hay, it is caused by hay hay lacks quality hence it stays in the intestines longer tp absorb the most amount of nutrients, bench the" hay belly"
most of the people here are telling you hay if a horse goes more than 2 hours without eating it can develop ulcers, emotional upset from hunger,etc.
if he is eating the hay the owner puts in by AM feeding he is not getting too much hay.
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Maybe? But the very first line of the original post stresses the horse kept her up TWO nights and she continues to ask for oddball ways to stop the horse from pawing rather than consider that the underlying issue may be her style of horse management.
Would I want this critter in my barn as described? Nope. But I would certainly put forage in front of him all the time and suggest the owner scope or do a round of GG before I considered putting jingle bells up in its stall if he were under my care.
Edited to add: I have a stall walker and a weaver so I get how obnoxious sterotypies are and do appreciate she is concerned about physical damage the horse may do to itself; however, a focus on preventing the behavior rather than resolving the underlying cause does this horse a disservice, especially considering the additional symptoms of discomfort described. My guys are at home which gives me the leeway to tailor their management and as a result neither routinely display their stall vice of choice but if they do, which happened with one this fall, I focused on figuring out what was causing anxiety rather than trying to stop the behavior.
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Do you have round bales out in the pasture? How much grazing is there?
Most places are pretty bare right now. It sounds like there’s a chance he’s outside for 12 hours but may only be eating a few flakes of hay during that whole time. He then comes in and gets his evening hay which is gone by 10 pm. So he has nothing in front of him until 7 am the next morning, later on the weekends.
If you don’t want to feed more hay, a slow feeder to prolong the hay sounds like an incredibly simple solution.
Unless you are weighing the hay I’m surprised that the amount of hay described is coming out to 35-40 lbs a day. Even so, 16.3 isn’t a small horse and if there isn’t any pasture that’s the only forage he’s getting.
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