Boarders - would you pay 10-15% more for a facility that was somewhat "high tech"?

[BunnyHugger]

I’m in the process of setting up my “pipe dream” facility. I have a barn suitable for an indoor and have plans to build 12+ stalls with the intention of boarding 8 or more horses.
While I’ve never seen the books of any successful boarding operation, I have to guess that the money isn’t in boarding, it is in lessons/training/extra offerings.
I would feel comfortable offering lower-level type lessons but don’t think investing in a string of lesson horses would be cost-effective. I work full-time so wouldn’t have the availability to teach and ride my own horse(s) - which is the reason for purchasing the property to begin with.
I’m curious as to whether something I am very interested in for my own purposes might have appeal to other boarders as well… I would like to invest in the infrastructure to be able to take lessons “virtually”. My instructor lives on the west coast (I am in upstate NY). I’m in the early stages of investigating virtual lessons - purchasing an indoor/outdoor video setup, researching internet/wifi requirements, etc.
I’m wondering if boarders would be interested in paying more for a facility that was “internet-enabled” that would allow them to take remote lessons with trainers of their choosing. I would charge a fee to use the setup (the investment in the infrastructure would be significant, I wouldn’t want boarders using it at their leisure and using/abusing equipment) I would provide the internet connectivity, the video capability and recording and maybe even a large screen to interact with the trainer/instructor. The client would be responsible for adequate cell provider to be able to communicate with their instructor during their session.

The scenario I am looking at is upstate NY - southern tier. Board runs around $350/month for stall/bedding/hay/feed/turnout. I’m considering asking $400 for the same amenities that includes a barn with “Pixio” or some such tool. Pixio services wouldn’t be automatically included in the board-I’m thinking that an hour session that provides video interaction with a trainer would be ~$40/hour on top of board/trainer fee.

I really think this is something I would personally love to take advantage of. What are the thoughts of other? I welcome hearing of the flaws in my thinking!!

[Xanthoria]

I like the idea and have done virtual lessons. But $50 extra per boarder per month - $600/yr. And a $40/hr surcharge on virtual lessons? And a Pixio costs $700 or something? Not sure I understand why boarders couldn’t just buy one themselves? Even with high speed internet on top I feel your proposed charges are high. Do you have a more detailed breakdown on costs?

[x-halt-salute]

If I were in a region where board averaged around $350-400/month, I’d gladly pay 10-20% more for “high tech” offerings. But I’d be more interested in things like general boarder-accessible broadband, stall cameras, online bill pay for board, and such than what amounts to Pixio rental for lessons with a remote instructor.

I was looking into remote lessons a few years back when I moved to a place where good training is scarce. But alas, broadband/decent mobile data signal in the vicinity of boarding facilities was also scarce so it never worked out. I think $40/hr for camera/connectivity is steep enough that most folks would rather just buy a Pixio (~$1k), and either find a place with wifi, or buy mobile broadband service for connectivity. After all, only half a year of weekly lessons at $40 a pop in camera rentals would cover the camera cost. Gig speed internet runs around $70-120/month for a home or farm in many places, but $35 buys an individual rider several gigs/month of mobile data on a dedicated plan (enough to stream a few lessons for someone who is serious about setting up remote training).

So your Pixio rental stops being economical relatively quickly for the boarder who lessons at least once/week. The target audience for $40/hr Pixio rental must therefore be folks who take less frequent lessons. Will this service be able to compete with hauling out or occasional clinics or other ways people get feedback without being in an intensive lesson situation? Are the services matched well to the potential clients?

Consider also that the boarder who would be interested in the situation you describe will expect that Pixio to have reasonable availability to them (potentially in the same evenings and weekends when you might want to use it), and should it ever go on the fritz they might expect it to be repaired/replaced in a somewhat expedient fashion.

I don’t think this is a bad idea, only that it needs more thinking re: marketable offerings and pricing before it’s ready for primetime.

[meupatdoes]

I would absolutely pay $400 a month for that.

I dont get how you are even offering board at that rate; I live in WNY where the cost of living is super low and decent board basically starts at $450 here and those are few and far between.

That said, the appetite for lessons is lower here than it was in NJ/Westchester where I learned how to ride, and I find it perpetually frustrating that people own horses here without bothering to budget for lessons and training, so I may be a weird one.

[Palm_Beach]

You’d have to find 8 hard working, independent adults for that situation to work. Are they taping their lessons and sending them in, or is a trainer live and watching the lesson? Most competition riders are lessoning IRL, and if they jump, they’d have to keep getting on and off the horse to set jumps if no trainer was present. You might luck into a couple people who can keep their horses tuned up with virtual lessons but maybe not 8.

[clanter]

my thoughts on “upstate New York” …you better make sure you have the infrastructure of high speed internet in place before you purchase the land

Upload and download speed of about 0.5MBPS: Low Quality

Upload and download speed of about 1MBPS: Medium Quality

Upload and download speed of about 3MBPS: High Quality

https://shop.movensee.com/en/other/129-pack-pixio-live-coaching.html

[wsmoak]

When I think of a high tech barn I imagine things like…

a stall camera where I can check in at feeding time and see what’s going on. (I prefer them to be out, so cameras on the barn pointed out towards the turnouts would also be nice.) Basically the ability to flip through the cameras and see what’s going on at the barn, hopefully catch a glimpse of my horse. (The flip side is that everyone who boards there would need to be okay with being on camera!)

Text updates any time my horse is interacted with.
“Dobbin had his breakfast and supplements. All good!”
“It’s been 5 weeks since Dobbin’s last farrier visit. Schedule another?”

(I am not asking someone to type these out every time – it should be automated! I once saw an app to help roommates coordinate whether someone fed or walked the dog, and you’d just tap the icon. Something like that, the barn workers would have an ipad available and just tap what they did and who was in or out.)

A good website with boarder logins where I can see my account and pay online, and see the schedule (if it’s a busy place and you need to know if the arena will be available.)

The virtual lesson setup would be a bonus but something I might use quarterly as a clinic. Having someone coordinate times and get it all figured out and working is worth some money – btdt with the Soloshot so I don’t think “buy your own and use cellular data” is quite as simple as it sounds.

There’s another angle with the Pixio – not real-time lessons but just recording your rides. If you had a service where it was all set up and all I had to do was put on the tracker and ride, then the video was available to watch shortly thereafter… that would be awesome.

(That’s going to require a human to be there to swap out the memory cards, make sure it is turned on and working, etc. Despite the marketing, those things are fiddly and complex and do not just magically work every time.)

Good luck!

[trubandloki]

I am not at a level where virtual lessons seem like a necessary option. I have a trainer that comes to me, so maybe that is why it does not really make sense to me.
Is there a market in your area of people that want long distance lessons?

The thing that confuses me about your plan is the fact that you want people to pay extra every month in their board for this option to exist, but to actually use the option they have to pay an hourly fee.

To me that is kind of like saying - we put in a new indoor ring so your board is going up because of this nice new amenity we now have. If you use the indoor there is an hourly rate fee added to your board bill.

[js]

Why not just charge that to boarders who want to bring in a trainer for a lesson as you may not get boarders who want lessons or at least video lessons? Personally I wouldn’t not be interested in video lessons though other high tech amenities like cameras in the barn etc. to check on horses would be nice. Maybe offer a nice lounge area with wifi available.

[x-halt-salute]

@wsmoak

Text updates any time my horse is interacted with.
“Dobbin had his breakfast and supplements. All good!”
“It’s been 5 weeks since Dobbin’s last farrier visit. Schedule another?”

(I am not asking someone to type these out every time – it should be automated! I once saw an app to help roommates coordinate whether someone fed or walked the dog, and you’d just tap the icon. Something like that, the barn workers would have an ipad available and just tap what they did and who was in or out.)

I would hate getting automated text updates about my horse any time it is interacted with, so I could see this as a really polarizing option.

I want actual people to check in with me if there’s something I need to know about my horse’s health or care (e.g. Dobbin didn’t eat his breakfast today; we have reason to be concerned), but don’t want script-generated messages letting me know that the stall was picked or a flake of hay was fed. Sounds like pointless inbox clutter to me.

Also, as someone who’s worked in barns plenty, dragging an ipad around while doing chores and tapping through interfaces to alert owners to every action at the barn sounds like a PITA. And what happens on the day when I show up for breakfast feed only to find Dobbin cast in his stall and delay the breakfast meal while I get him up and check for injury? Is Rosie’s owner going to panic and blow up my phone demanding answers if her breakfast text doesn’t arrive on time? I can see why people might like dog walkers checking in through these kinds of alerts (esp. if they’re entering your home). And maybe in situations like horses in training it would be useful to get a message letting you know what time your horse was worked and roughly what the trainer did with it. But for routine care I don’t see what it adds to just basic good care where you can trust that routine care is happening and that anything unusual will be communicated.

@wsmoak

The virtual lesson setup would be a bonus but something I might use quarterly as a clinic. Having someone coordinate times and get it all figured out and working is worth some money – btdt with the Soloshot so I don’t think “buy your own and use cellular data” is quite as simple as it sounds.

Indeed. I think your imagined quarterly use is exactly the kind of thing that this particular fee structure would attract – relatively infrequent users for whom the cost/hassle of setting up their own system is prohibitive. Does it generate enough revenue to be worth it for OP if it only gets rented a dozen times per year (which, given how often I see riders’ plans change due to lameness or scheduling or availability of other options seems within the realm of possible outcomes if 8 boarders come in planning to use it 3-4x/year but don’t already have a quarterly remote lesson routine established)?

[BunnyHugger]

trubandloki, that’s kind of what I was scratching my head over - paying extra for a barn that has this amenity but having to pay to use it… But, I wouldn’t want folks handling the electronics themselves, I know better than to think all folks would treat them with care and accidents do happen - but someone’s time to do the recording is worth something. The videographer would do jump setup, cone or obstacle moving, etc. Sounds like $40 is way too high, which is the kind of feedback I’m looking for!

My initial post was already long enough so I didn’t want to do an entire brain dump, but other plans would include a web site that boarders could log into and view various cameras around the farm (their stalls, arenas, turnout areas). I wouldn’t want the general public having access, I want it to be a service to boarders so they’d have user accounts with password. I was also figuring on facility schedule, pixio reservation and online payment.

The farm has access to fiber but I don’t know what speeds that implies - or what is required. My wheels have only just started turning. I’m thinking the facility would have to have 2-3 pixio units - there could be multiple folks wanting to use it at the same time, wanting to use it for the indoor and outdoor arenas, etc. Definitely would offer being able to record rides, I do that regularly myself since I don’t get the chance to take lessons often.

I was also thinking maybe hosting clinics and offering online auditing?
And I’d love to dabble in working equitation and they (used to - don’t know if they still do) have “remote” shows were you can submit video of your test. I thought maybe the barn could provide a local “satellite” show for other interested riders.

I love the lounge with wifi idea!

meupatdoes, yup, board is pretty reasonable around here. Google the Binghamton area. It’s much higher around the Syracuse area and cheaper as you move north toward the Oswego/Fulton area. I don’t understand why, the price of hay doesn’t flux that widely. I’m guessing they must make their money with lessons or training. I just brought my horses home from a place I was paying $350/month that included all that I described above (not the high-tech stuff) in a beautiful, brand new facility. The roads were a little dicey in the winter and I didn’t love the fencing (high-tensile) but it was to be a short-term stay while I got my new barn ready.

I have other ideas that don’t necessarily relate to being high tech, but this is long-winded enough already, lol.

[Scribbler]

In order to get a barn of clients who want this, you will need (a) a group of clients who badly want weekly lessons and (b) have not been able to find adequate training locally. This is tricky, because the people who badly want lessons tend to find them locally, except in the most remote areas. And in those areas, it might be hard to find 8 people who all want lessons, as the back country tends to be much more DIY and backyard acreage.

I don’t think I would exchange my solid IRL lessons for virtual lessons even with a higher level coach, because so much doesn’t translate through video. If you already had a relationship with a coach, I can see continuing it that way, as OP wants to do. But it would be different to establish a relationship virtually. Also “trainers of their choosing” isn’t exactly possible, because who knows if any given trainer wants to do remote lessons on a video link? Or what they would charge? And adding $40 to the lesson cost for camera rental is a lot. If the high end remote trainer charges say $60 or $75 an hour or more for lessons, and add on the $40 for the camera, you could easily get two local lessons for the price of one remote lesson.

[Scribbler]

As far as cameras, you will want to check out your state’s privacy laws. it’s all well and good to be able to peep at your horsecam at work and I would love that. But what happens when two boarders start feuding, and accusing each other of dropping hay in the aisle or not leading their horse safely or whatever? The big question is, where does the boarder have reasonable expectations of privacy?

Our club barn just went through this with installing security videos. The videos are monitored and kept by a professional security company. If we file a police complaint over a theft, vandalism, assault, etc., then we pay the company to sift through the video for that date/time and find the relevant footage.

No club member has access to the video, and no one can sit at home watching and waiting to catch another member doing something “wrong.” When the video idea was first brought up ten years ago, one of the board members at the time said “And we could see who doesn’t sweep up after themselves and fine them!” There is however both case law and guidelines on best practices from our Provincial privacy commission, and this use of cameras is not OK.

It might be different on private property. But I would still be hesitant about allowing all the boarders to monitor each other. Giving each one an individual stall cam would be fun. But keep in mind it will increase complaints about care and anxious queries like “is my horse asleep or dead?” “why is he staring at the wall/grill/fence?” etc. And it will be an extra cost, on top of the Pixio.

I also would not like continual emails verifying routine care.

Starting a secret FB group for stall holders only is a good way to run barn notices like “power off today because of windstorm, indoor arena closing at sunset” or whatever. I find it easier to access FB than email on my phone. it also lets you post photos.

[BunnyHugger]

clanter, this is awesome! I was wondering about delay time and if the idea would even be practical given the timing is everything with riding.

[BunnyHugger]

Great points, Scribbler! I confess I feel a little dumb that privacy didn’t occur to me!

I do plan to have cameras around the farm for security purposes but I haven’t even explored how those situations work. I’m sure I’ll be back here with questions when I get to that point.

[Xanthoria]

I wonder if you could have a live stream of the arena, with a password protected login. Camera angle that captures at least half the arena, possibly two, and an overhead view as well? Then for a live virtual lesson the rider could just give the trainer a login and use a phone/headset for audio during the ride on their own phone plan.

For a training situation I would like to see horses worked with a training tracker app/device like Equilab and the results uploaded post ride so the owner could see exactly how much work was done.

Add video of the ride and what a great resource. Past training ride logs and videos accessible in an online spreadsheet etc.

[MissAriel]

I would consider it, but I am more likely to want wi-fi, stall cameras, online scheduling (ring availability, routine vet appts, farrier, etc) and bill paying than infrastructure for remote lessons.

Also, wrt your pay structure, it sounds like you are charging an extra $50/month regardless if you use the remote lesson system or not, and then a $40/h charge on top to use it. I would suggest either a flat monthly fee or a usage fee, but not both. I would recommend an optional monthly flat fee for those clients wishing to use the system, similar to trailer parking fees.

Regardless of what services you offer, if you are charging for it, be prepared to do all the tech work needed to keep it up and running all the time.

[x-halt-salute]

@BunnyHugger

trubandloki, that’s kind of what I was scratching my head over - paying extra for a barn that has this amenity but having to pay to use it… But, I wouldn’t want folks handling the electronics themselves, I know better than to think all folks would treat them with care and accidents do happen - but someone’s time to do the recording is worth something. The videographer would do jump setup, cone or obstacle moving, etc. Sounds like $40 is way too high, which is the kind of feedback I’m looking for!

My initial post was already long enough so I didn’t want to do an entire brain dump, but other plans would include a web site that boarders could log into and view various cameras around the farm (their stalls, arenas, turnout areas). I wouldn’t want the general public having access, I want it to be a service to boarders so they’d have user accounts with password. I was also figuring on facility schedule, pixio reservation and online payment.

The farm has access to fiber but I don’t know what speeds that implies - or what is required. My wheels have only just started turning. I’m thinking the facility would have to have 2-3 pixio units - there could be multiple folks wanting to use it at the same time, wanting to use it for the indoor and outdoor arenas, etc. Definitely would offer being able to record rides, I do that regularly myself since I don’t get the chance to take lessons often.

I was also thinking maybe hosting clinics and offering online auditing?
And I’d love to dabble in working equitation and they (used to - don’t know if they still do) have “remote” shows were you can submit video of your test. I thought maybe the barn could provide a local “satellite” show for other interested riders.

I love the lounge with wifi idea!

Fiber is usually in the vicinity of a gig up/down, with a decent router potentially bottlenecking in the 700Mbps range. Plenty for streaming lessons (esp. given that the upload speed is what matters and fiber is usually symmetric, unlike other forms of broadband). If you have fiber available at your farm without outrageous install fees, you are very lucky, and very well positioned to offer a “high tech” package.

I’m totally jealous of your local board rates, and of the sorts of things you say you’d like to offer. I’d kill to have wifi at the barn so I could sit somewhere out of the way and get work done when I’m waiting for a vet to arrive or letting horse hang out in a cooler for a while before blanketing, or other various half hours of barn downtime. And I’d love to have a stall cam for infrequent check-in on horse’s welfare (e.g. if barn notices reduced appetite, or if I’m worried about them becoming unsettled due to weather, new neighbor horse, etc.). Plenty of value add without pointing cameras at shared spaces in which privacy concerns are more complicated.

Re: online auditing for clinics, I think you’d have to build your clinic hosting a bit before people would tune in to that, but if you found your niche w.r.t. hosting and had both solid audio and video it could work. I’d audit a ton more clinics if it were possible to follow decent audio and video from my office or home instead of driving all over creation to get to the barns that are hosting interesting trainers and putting up with often terrible audio setups that make it tough to follow everything if you happen to sit next to chatty Kathys.

@BunnyHugger

that’s kind of what I was scratching my head over - paying extra for a barn that has this amenity but having to pay to use it… But, I wouldn’t want folks handling the electronics themselves, I know better than to think all folks would treat them with care and accidents do happen - but someone’s time to do the recording is worth something. The videographer would do jump setup, cone or obstacle moving, etc. Sounds like $40 is way too high, which is the kind of feedback I’m looking for!

Is there a way to promote the barn as high tech in general (that’s why board is higher), but then list the Pixio fee as an extra staff service? I think it would go down a lot better if it’s not presented as “pay extra for a Pixio-enabled barn, plus tech fees for camera use”, but rather, “pay extra board for a generally awesome tech-enabled barn, and one of the services we offer is remote lesson technology and support, for an hourly fee”.

People are willing to pay $X to have their horses held for farrier or vet. I would think that setting prices that reflect this as a premium staff service (e.g. 1.5x $X) would be well tolerated.

[Scribbler]

If you had a semi comfortable lounge with a huge screen TV you could host parties to audit distance clinics and even watch equestrian events livestream. Or watch training videos appropriate to your crowd.

As far as bandwidth, when we installed wi-fi at the barn to support the professional security videos, we were told to make the wi-fi system password protected against casual use because of the potential for overuse of the bandwidth. A few folks checking email on their phones would have been fine, but we were told that if everyone started setting up their own stall cams and tying into the wi-fi, we would run out of bandwidth quickly. Also the security company wanted no one getting access to the wi-fi for security reasons (don’t know if this was justified or not).

So whatever wi-fi you install, think about the services it needs to support. If everyone decides to intstall a stallcam, even on their own dime, it might be excessive to your wi-fi and disrupt the video streaming you want for your lessons and clinics.

I think having the ability to produce near-professional videos of on-site lessons and practice rides and even schooling shows would be very attractive. Especially if you could then review them with your coach or barn buddies on the wide screen TV in the the lounge! Developing a barn culture where everyone gets used to being videoed and then analyzing the video with constructive criticism would be fantastic development for all the riders.

No squeamishness, false modesty, angling for unwarranted praise bitchy comments, but a frame by frame analysis of what went good and what didn’t would be so useful for every rider. You could have a system where people pay extra to get a ride recorded and sent to them, with the option of having regular video nights for those interested in watching say ten minute clips of their ride and others’ rides in a group with or without a coach present. Probably a bunch of mid-level ammies can see everything that needs comment in a video of one of their peers, anyhow.

Watching your friends’ rides on videos is very educational as well as your own.

[x-halt-salute]

@Scribbler

As far as bandwidth, when we installed wi-fi at the barn to support the professional security videos, we were told to make the wi-fi system password protected against casual use because of the potential for overuse of the bandwidth. A few folks checking email on their phones would have been fine, but we were told that if everyone started setting up their own stall cams and tying into the wi-fi, we would run out of bandwidth quickly.

What sort of internet service did you set up, though?

There’s a big difference between a cable connection that might typically get 35 Mbps upload in a premium tier, and a symmetrical fiber install with hundreds of Mbps up. And between individual boarders creating a tragedy-of-the-bandwidth-commons situation by optimizing their own individual tech setups vs. a barn instituting some standard tech installs that take into account all uses and balance bandwidth accordingly.

You’re looking at a few Mbps each for cameras (Nest lists theirs at 1.2Mbps max, for reference), maybe maxing out around 10Mbps in the most generous, bandwidth hogging scenario perhaps? A dozen of those, plus email checking by the corresponding owners, won’t come close to using up all the bandwidth that you can get with fiber. At least if you’ve got an appropriate router setup. And lowering resolution and FPS could keep the bandwidth even more in check for something like stall cams, where fine details probably aren’t necessary.

So if OP has fiber available it has a massive impact on the feasibility of offering all of this … and of making sure the remote lesson offering is reliable enough that clients continue to use it. But it’s not unrealistic to think a small facility could make a go of this kind of tech even without the benefit of fiber, as long as they had decent cable service and some control over bandwidth allocation.