Boarding and Pergolide

[frisky]

I recently started both of my horses on pergolide-- the generic capsules. They are getting different doses that look like the same pill. I’m about 10 days into the process and the horses seem fine, but I need to find a system that is easy for barn management. I have been feeding the pills inside pill pockets and the horses don’t seem to have a problem. In the near future, however, my work will ramp up and I will rarely be able to get to the barn during the week.

Here are my concerns: 1. Needs to be simple, easy to follow. I’ve had weird experiences in the past at my barn, so it needs to be clear and easily documented. 2. Can you leave pergolide capsules in pill pockets inside a container outside the stall with their grain packets for 5 days to a week? Depends on the weather? What if it’s in the 90s or the 60s or colder during the day? I’ve been keeping it in the fridge (too cold?).

What kind of system do you have? Please share. I have a vet visit and will run this by my vet as well.

[Jump314]

Compounded pergolide is not as effective as Prascend.

@frisky

Can you leave pergolide capsules in pill pockets inside a container outside the stall with their grain packets for 5 days to a week? Depends on the weather? What if it’s in the 90s or the 60s or colder during the day? I’ve been keeping it in the fridge (too cold?).

You definitely cannot do this.

A quote from Janssen Vet Clinic: "It’s not uncommon for owners to take the tablets out of their original packaging and place in bottles for easier dosing. However, pergolide (the active ingredient in Prascend) is notoriously unstable in light and air. To give the medication a usable shelf-life, the pills are individually packaged in nitrogen-filled blister packs that keep out all UV light and air.

The company who produces Prascend warns that the pergolide starts to degrade as soon as it is removed from its pack and can’t be guaranteed effective if exposed to the environment for greater than 24 hours.

A good rule of thumb is to leave medication in the original packaging whenever possible. Manufacturers will pick containers that provide the best environment for each drug, though unfortunately this isn’t always the most convenient packaging!"

I have my horse at home so fortunately, I don’t have to worry about him getting fed correctly while boarding. He gets a 1/2 Prascend tablet per day so every other day, I get 1 out of the blister pack and I carefully wrap up the remaining half in the blister pack, hoping to keep it away from light and more air before the next day. I feed him his 1/2 tablet by hand, with a tiny amount of grain, before I give him the rest of his grain. I feed it by hand because I want to make sure he gets it plus he has good manners about taking things I feed him. How conscientious are the people who feed for you? Could they do something like this?

[jherold]

You can’t preload the capsules because the moisture in the treat will cause the capsule to start to dissolve. How about a days of the week pill box organizer for the pills with the pill pockets in a separate bag. Put everything in a cloth bag and attach it to the stall.

[horseshorseshorseshorses]

I feed lots of different pills for client horses (we have anywhere between 25-35 horses on site and it almost always seems like 1-3 are medicated for some reason or another). For a medication that is light, moisture and/or air sensitive the easiest has been for the pills to be placed in a weekly pill organizer. Than if the horse doesn’t eat the meds with their grains have an equal number of yummy treat that is easy to place the pill into or if we can syringe it, a yummy sweetener to make the bitter meds go down easier.

If the horse is a pain to medicate it is reasonable for the boarding facility to charge you for that service if it’s out of their normal scope of care. Now I don’t mean placing a pill in a squishy treat you horse eats up. I mean a medication that has to be dissolved/crushed to be dissolved/cut up or is dangerous to the workers and requires additional PPE or if your horse requires additional handling to medicate.

If I can stick the pill in a fig Newton and feed your horse without any drama, no additional charge. It’s basically a normal supplement. If I have to syringe it into your horses mouth, a bit of an up charge if they are well behaved. A larger upcharge if they are a jerk. If I have to do magic to get the horse to eat the meds…I’m going to either charge you a large amount or ask you to do it yourself.

[RedHorses]

You talk to the people likely to be giving the meds and ask them what they think would be easiest. Then after a week or so, you ask them how it’s going and if they want to try something else.

By all means have a couple of methods to suggest, but don’t presume to know what’s easiest for them. You know how your horse needs it presented, but after that it’s a collaborative effort. For example I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s easier to have the stuff in the feed room than on the stall door (especially if there are treats involved).

My horse cannot be trusted to eat his Prascend with his grain, and syringe is the best way of ensuring that he actually gets it. I did have a pillbox that I loaded weekly (with pills in packaging) for a couple of barns, but at the current barn I leave a month of pills and provide syringes.

[S1969]

@horseshorseshorseshorses

If I can stick the pill in a fig Newton and feed your horse without any drama, no additional charge. It’s basically a normal supplement. If I have to syringe it into your horses mouth, a bit of an up charge if they are well behaved. A larger upcharge if they are a jerk. If I have to do magic to get the horse to eat the meds…I’m going to either charge you a large amount or ask you to do it yourself.

LOL you’re describing my (now deceased) Cushings pony. Magic was necessary.

I can’t imagine a barn full of them. Or even more than one. God bless you.

[alterblue]

Currently I use a pill organizer and a small jar with fig newtons. I fill both weekly. My mare reliably will eat it stuffed in the cookie, so my barn manager does this when she makes up the evening meal. It sits in the cookie a few hours, which is less than ideal I’m sure, but it seems to be working based on my horse’s bloodwork.

Pergolide is light and moisture sensitive, probably even more so when in compounded capsules instead of tablets. I do use a dark pill box and keep in an area away from direct light in the feed room. Even better would be keeping them in the vaccum packaging until feeding, but my mare gets 1/2 pill currently so I have to make compromises on making it easy for BM to feed vs the perfect storage option.

[Small_Change]

For those who have trouble getting the pills into their horses, sometimes it works best just to poke the naked pill into the horse’s cheek pouch. If you push it in there far enough, they don’t spit it back out. I’ve got two mares in my barn on Prascend - initially they just took the pill out of my hand, followed by their favourite treat, but they’ve gotten wise. Poking it into their cheek is the least dramatic of a few methods I tried, and they tuck into their grain right after to ensure it goes down.

[JB]

You can put the pills in empty gelcaps (vegan if you prefer) which hides a lot

[BrookdaleBay]

at my barn, we poke a hole in a piece of carrot and shove the pill in there. all the horses eat it no problem.

we do this the night before when AM grain is prepared, and after reading a couple replies here, i’m wondering if this is the best idea. poking 14 pills into carrots takes a few minutes.

[Weezer]

I used to do this for one mare, but she got wise and stopped eating carrots

[Angela_Freda]

My question is how much fig newton, or other sugar containing vehicle, reduces the prascend efficacy. In other words, where does the cost/benefit tip the wrong way?

I’m sure getting it in them, however that happens, is still better than not.
.

[TimeForAHorse]

I have had some issues with my now deceased old gelding getting his Prascend in a boarding situation. At first, he’d eat it just tossed into his grain, but eventually, I observed him deliberately picking around it.
Both that gelding and the senior mare I have now on Prascend would initially take it hidden inside a treat (those molasses-y horse muffins do work well), but would eventually get wise and reject the laced treat.

To ensure the horse receives their meds, in both cases I found it necessary to use an empty plastic dewormer tube and dispense the pill into the back of their mouths - afterwards, give a high-value treat. Current mare loves her peppermints. (But it has to be after - you want the pill to predict the treat, not the other way around, else they’re liable to reject the treat in antipation of the pill.) This isn’t too hard to do, and avoids removing the pill from its packaging prematurely.

[whhisperbaby11]

Yea, this is a concern, what I do is push the pill into a very tiny piece of banana with a knife. I then cover the banana with a small amount of TC Lite. The amount of banana is so small, and I don’t have to touch the pill at all.

[JB]

@Angela_Freda

My question is how much fig newton, or other sugar containing vehicle, reduces the prascend efficacy.

there’s nothing prohibiting Prascend being fed with food. The Fig Newton isn’t the problem. The length of time a pill stays in a FN (or anything else moist, or being allowed to be exposed to air or light) is the problem

[Angela_Freda]

@JB

@Angela_Freda

My question is how much fig newton, or other sugar containing vehicle, reduces the prascend efficacy.

there’s nothing prohibiting Prascend being fed with food. The Fig Newton isn’t the problem. The length of time a pill stays in a FN (or anything else moist, or being allowed to be exposed to air or light) is the problem

Yes, I’m aware. I didn’t say it should not be given with food, I don’t think.

But the need for the prascend is due to metabolic issues related to sugar intake, correct?
These horses usually get hay soaked to reduce sugar content, for example.
They tend to be on no grain or super low sugar feeds.
So a sugary treat to get it in seems counterproductive, but how far does that go?
That’s my question.

[frisky]

PPID is not sugar or diet related, although it’s a good idea to feed like an IR horse.

I do have one IR horse who was also recently diagnosed with cushings. My vet told me the other day that he really wouldn’t worry about feeding one pill pocket/ day that wasn’t totally in the program.

That said, I believe someone posted that you can get no or low-sugar fig newtons. I’ve already bought some beet e bites. My horse likes them but they are expensive.I may try the fig newtons as well. My vet also mentioned licorice. Who knew.

[JB]

@Angela_Freda

But the need for the prascend is due to metabolic issues related to sugar intake, correct?

Metabolic yes in the sense that it’s a hormonal imbalance caused by a pituitary issue. But it’s not caused by diet. That said, PPID does significantly predispose a horse to becoming IR/EMS, and as such, they should be fed more like an IR horse, though don’t have to be THAT strict. 1 Fig Newton a day is fine for even most IR horses.

[ClearDonkey]

I ‘meal prep’ about 2 months worth of Prascend in gel pill capsules, I think they are size 1 from Amazon, and store them in a pill bottle. I have noticed zero signs of degradation, compared to pills that are stored loose in a pill bottle, which discolor and the appearance of their texture changes. I had my horse’s TRH test done annually to confirm the dosage is still working (and my method of storing and feeding) and half a pill of Prascend has worked for nearly three years now. I just drop the gel pill capsule containing the Prascend into his daily breakfast, and he eats it right up.

Other things that work… Bananas, carrots, Fig newtons, Nutter butters, fruit roll-up, those equine pill pocket treats, apples, dates… Lots of things to try and see what works, but even just shoving it up into their cheek works just fine too.

[sascha]

@frisky

My vet also mentioned licorice. Who knew.

Once they glom onto the taste of liquorice it becomes a high-value treat that makes it super useful for hiding pills. And it seems like the flavour can hide a multitude of sins without the horse going off the treat.