Amazing thing; just tonight ran into the original owner of an older horse we’ve been fooling around with English for a couple of years, and he told me a lot I didn’t know about him; including his lovely Doc Bar bloodlines and the fact that he was broke and always ridden in a bosal.
Have acquired said gear; how do they like to be ridden in this? Apparently the horse was pretty accomplished before; for sure he has beaucoup “whoa!”
Talk to me, Californios!
For starters, you should probably peruse a copy of the Ingersoll/Stoecklein book “The Legendary California Hackamore and Stock Horse.”
Make sure you have a decent quality bosal that is of appropriate width that won’t rough up the nose. Shape it. Adjust it high enough not to impact the soft tissues of the nose.
A hackamore is a pretty subtle piece of equipment. Take and release. Release before they can ever really pull against you, or they’ll learn they can just run through it. It is not a “ridden on contact” piece of equipment.
If the horse is broke, just ride on a loose rein and treat him like he’s broke. 
Here are some links for your perusing: http://www.elvaquero.com/The%20Hackamore.htm
http://www.bennyguitron.com/articles/232004232611.html
Benny Guitron is one of the great hackamore men that is still living and training.
Using a hackamore properly can’t be done by the seat of your pants and do it right, I have learned.
You need to watch those that do it right and better yet, have them show you.
I have had people ask how to.
I do show them, have them hold the rein with me and get a feel for what it takes and what not to do and, once they have the concept of a light signal and the much more important of the release, they are good to go experiment on their own.
Very hard to put a bosal on and go ride and not make way too many mistakes.
Those will get a horse bracey.
The same principle applies to riding without a bridle but with something around a horse’s neck, that light touch and more important, release and never keep whatever you use tight is extremely important for those kinds of signals to work consistently.
You have to ask right and trust your horse to do it, not try to help or hold them up with them.
As someone already mentioned, that kind of riding is about no direct contact, only a very light touch when asking.
If you have to pull a horse around with a hackamore or something around their neck, you are already fighting the horse, not guiding, if you know it or not.
Another very important point, the rest of your aids, that are active as you use whatever you use on their head or neck to guide, your weight/seat and leg.
The heavier the bosal you use, the more you have to be aware that, if not an exact fit, they will go bump-bump-bump on a horse’s nose as they move, especially at the canter and that is not good.
If that happens, the horse will get first sore, then desensitized to a fine feel in those sensitive areas and the nose structures develop a callous there and some times under their chin.
You can see that in ranch horses someone that didn’t know any better tried to use a bosal.
One more, many bosals have the cheek piece slot a bit too far forward, so any the bosal may move around will make those side pieces hit the horse’s eye on one or the other side, irritating it.
You can see that happening with those, made like that so the heavier bosal’s will hang right, the weight of the back keeping them up in front.
I really don’t like the thicker, stiffer rawhide bosals much, prefer our own light rope nose hackamores, that Pine Johnson used and taught all to use, after several discussions with Don Dodge about them and the Californios that used them.
That kind of CA vaquero riding is very specific and few can become really good, while many are worse off by trying to emulate them, just because it is supposed to be an old tradition, without full understanding of what was good about it and what some pitfalls were.
Some old traditions were worth keeping, some not as good as newer ways of doing things.
Today’s followers of the Vaquero tradition, even when they like to think themselves purists, are really so much more educated in how horses work and move than the old ones were, that there is no comparing the results they achieve today to the older, so many times u-necked, stiff as a board horses that kind of training tended to produce from most but a few really fine hands.
Look at the pictures and drawings of those horses, look at “The Hackamore Reinsman” drawing in the cover, that was put there as a best example of a horse up in the bridle.
Then realize those horses were maybe not ridden always in a way we would accept today as correct.
Study the pictures here and educate your eye to what is a horse well developed to move correctly and which ones are not, but bracey and stiff and why:
[QUOTE=Bluey;6322869]
Look at the drawings of those horses, look at “The Hackamore Reinsman” drawing in the cover, that was put there as a best example of a horse up in the bridle.
Then realize those horses were maybe not ridden always in a way we would accept today as correct.[/QUOTE]
yes the first book to get and then allow for it’s nearly 70 ? years of age
the bosal is not about the bosal really,it’s about the seat and legs and the horse carrying himself up to your hand and seat.
master your seat and legs and the bosal is just the bit (note pun)on the end of the nose
Tamara
I have all of Ed Connells books. Great books. There is something to understand about his books…
http://www.hackamore-reinsman.com/ed_connell/index.html
I have been told numerous times that when Ed wrote HACKAMORE REINSMAN, he made the assumption that the rider was considerably experienced and already had more than a basic understanding and knowledge of horsemanship. This is true. Those with less experience may find these books advanced…they should be with someone who understands these methods.
He has stated in his books and articles that his books are for the amateur as well as the professional. It is my personal opinion that the interpretation of the definition of amateur has changed over the years. In those days the amateur had some experience and knowledge behind him. Today the amateur for the most part is a rank beginner who is in the throes of learning everything from the very beginning. These books are not for them…yet. But they can be in the future with practice, dedication and understanding. They are MANUALS OF INSTRUCTION only.
random bosal stuff of mine from years ago…rambling you have been warned
July 2008
ok this will be rambling…you have been warned…
I type slowly…always have and so typing long posts annoy me…I’ll
try to break into
sections…
The Face:
in most western riding that I do…bosal based and less into reiners
as specific
critters,the Face is the last place you go for a cue after the first
about 5 rides…
they are taught from the first mounting that the cue for say stop is:
spine behind the hips feet way forward and then contact on the face…
clever ponies figure the stop out at “I can avoid my lips being pulled by stopping when he puts his feet forward and that seems to come before his spine tilting back…
hummm wonder if I should stop at that point ??? hummmm”
a lot of the “sudden” jerks people are seeing in the videos are going to be horses that
already “know” seat and leg cues and for what ever reason have decided to ignore them…
snatching a babies face is going to only confuse him…but it’s like popping a chain over a nose
on a rowdy horse…he has to already know that he’s being
naughty…the parameter had to
have already been set but the horses are not between my legs and I just cannot watch 10,000
videos even on my
isp’s version of “hi speed DSL” to pick out each one…
it’s the same for the legs…if a horse can figure out that a man leans forward before he
squeezes with the thighs or bumps with the spur then tilting the spine forward of the hips
means go forward…this can been what others see as “humped forward”
once we have the seat understanding whoa and go then the legs are used
as I think Betsey said to “open and close” the doors for lateral movement…
in very quick work you are always going to have a “forward leg” or a chair seat…it’s just the natural reason to
the excessive speed you are going to encounter…it might look
slow…but it ain’t and the potential
for explosions are pretty good…
Mr Avila:
Mr Avila does not ride horses he thinks will not win…period…he’s really not interested in you yourself
doing well on your multi cross bred impulse buy :lol::lol: not at all…
I have a little “in” on the gentleman in that I have EVERY SINGLE issue of a magazine he put on save
one…that he and Juli Thorston did before WH…I’ll pick back thru them but I do not believe he ever
ever bent his horses face around due to “stiffness” in the
shoulders…I wonder if he really rides that way
now or if it’s just the “trendy” thing…he talks a lot about how one
interferes with horses quite unintentionally
with their bodies
the horses he picks to ride will be those that do well under his
riding style…I remember that Lee Zielger
(RIP) was not fond of his “reach out and grab their faces” style either
good riders today I like would be Mr Martin Black and his friends from whom reining descends…bosal riding
that more than a few people have no earthly idea how to do…and that there you will see the one rein bends
and there is a REAL reason why…but not for non bosal riders…Mr Les Vogt falls in the same realm…
Lightness:
Lightness for me is about 99% of what one does being off the seat and
legs…and a deep breath maybe :>
Bill Kambic has accused me of riding “too light” (
on you
Bill :> ) so if I ride for him I keep the contacts
that he will be comfortable with…that’s my job as a trainer…my
own horses I expect different things from
them depending on the critter that they are and how the Lord put them
together…
(did it really take 35 min to type this ??)
best
Tamara in TN
and 2006
dunno about any rebuking…but for me…I’d rather
have a horse had never been ridden and sent to me to train than started
in a sidepull of most any sort…
side pulls are not bosals and they are not snaffle but
they are also no where in between the two <g>
so the mechanics of riding and it's
feel is all wrong when you then have to move them into the “bit of choice” be it bosal or snaffle…they have to relearn the entire riding/balance “dance” before you can go and get anything “done”…
and I could not imagine the disaster that takes place trying to make a bridle horse using the modern sidepull and adding a bridle horse bit to go to four reins....
I don't know what particular gear you and Bill are talking about....but sidepulls just have no place here with me
Tamara (set in her ways) in TNand 2005
on a new broke western animal it is generally considered polite to have an open or leading rein to visually show the horse that you are going this or that way before activating the rein…it comes from old time bosal training…keeping a long low hand keeps a head (and mindlong and low…and easy to maneuver…it could be 10 or more rides before a horse has it set in mind to follow the seat and legs…
Tamara in TNI start my youngsters in a bosal…not those heavy rawhide ones with the mecate reins…just a light-weight training bosal with cotton reins. Nothing harsh about it. Once they are following their nose, breaking at the poll, and halting nicely in it with a direct rein, I’ll transition to a snaffle for a little fine-tuning and the beginning of neck reining, then on to a curb.
I’ve never felt using a bosal in this fashion beckoned to anything vaquero, I just like to stay out of their mouths as long as possible.
2005 bosal talk
I am actually riding him in a bosal, and he has learned to
> just push thru it to get the grass
drop it lower on his face and tighten it around his nose with the mecate...he could not bully thru it then...
for exact placement I quote a long dead cowboy " The nose band of the hackamore should be where the gristle of his noseenters the bony part making a slant to the jaw knot of the hackamore"
Tamara in TN2005
> I ride english, so I also have to ask why the curb is so important in
> the western world.
for many "western" rider it does not even matter....barrel racers like the snaffles w/a twisty
as do some of the ropers I know…other use mechanical hacks…
the curb could be called today an image thing....(I guess) and there are more than a few trainers who
drop a horse on a curb before he is broke enough to it…but you can spot those jokers and there
horses pretty quick…the ones that esp nauseate me are the ones that warm up in snaffles and
ride the class on curbs…
it dates to the old days when a horse was moved up to a curb from a bosal (or in some
places in the world snaffles) also horses move differently in well balanced good curbs…they lift
from the base of the neck and break at the poll,their drivers don’t lag behind and as a result impulsion and balance improve…moving this way keeps the loin well oiled and active and developed…
With my own horses, I have used an english curb only
> in very specific situations. I’ve used a pelham for foxhunting for the
> sole purpose of being able to stop, as I do not ride with a martingale,
> and most horses need extra tack when hunting. We’ve used kimberwickes
> in pony club (one rein or a pelham with converter) with little kids,
> also so they can stop and control a pony.
the overt need for brakes isn't really using a "curb"....but
leverage…or pinching to cause enough pain to over ride the “gotta go” impulse…if you pull
hard enough on a curb you can cause pain and damage…but it is not the point of the thing to begin with
I
> didn’t see anyone foxhunting ever riding a high level dressage horse.> Most hunt horses go lower and longer and they are almost all outfitted> in a martingale and pelham.
foxhunting goes long and low and flat and fast....there is no need for any great precision
other than whoa and don’t kick a dog…and a martingale to keep a rider from getting his nose popped <G>
Tamara in TN[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;6322938]
…
Mr Avalia:
Mr Avalia does not ride horses he thinks will not win…period…he’s really not interested in you yourself…[/QUOTE]
Are you referring to Mr. Avila? 
last one just remember you asked :> 2005
In the process of neck reining, you don’t ride on contact.
> Slobber straps, on the other hand, are meant to be used with “western”> type green horse contact. They function by acting like a hinge - when> you start to pick up on the reins, the slobber strap beings to lift> before your rein gets tight, to give the horse a pre-warning of what’s
> to come.
there is no pre signal in this piece of gear...the cues are
the seat then the reins (normally of a prickly hair type in the greener horses) moving on the neck and then the face
> The mecate portion of your reins is also somewhat useless when using a> mechanical hackamore. The long portion is mean to be used to send your> horse around on a circle and loosen him up,
no one could ever lunge a horse in a bosal...it is not designed for that sort of sideways pressures and it would send a most AFU signal to a horse who wore it, it works one way by being balanced down and in the center of the lower jaw
the only thing that ever came close to lunging was what they called when working in range colts a "hard pull"...the horse took off down the fence and about 20 or 30 feet from you you braced your hand on your hip and turned him to you using the bosal and a long enough rope....but he HAD to be moving straight down the fence or he
could pull out and away from you to the side…in the end if it were properly done he ended up facing you
I cannot fathom why someone would ride a non bosal horse in mecate reins anyway....what could possibly be the point ?
Tamara in TNI will add, how you ask a horse anything once on it’s back is not the first time you asked a horse, you have already taught it what you mean with whatever you use from the ground.
Read the chapters about doubling and realize that too is a very fine skill, basically to teach a horse to move his body around and over it’s hind end and loose and light.
Takes all of a few minutes on the ground, before you get on, to do properly and once mounted, those lessons should be there already, even the first time you get on that colt.
As one trainer used to say, riding is about controlling your horses feet, especially it’s hind feet, so you can move the whole horse how and where you want at the slightest asking, the horse taught and aware of what you want from the first time you lay hands on it.
In English riding, that would be the equivalent of saying you want a horse to work without resistances, soft and forward and supple.
That a horse works in a hackamore is not really about the hackamore, but about the lightness that horse has learned when working with you, as others have said already.
Why a hackamore, not a bit?
Because many horses were started about when their permanent teeth were coming in, had some mouth discomfort at times and so the rider was staying out of it while teaching.
Once the colt learned to work, doesn’t matter what you use to teach, but very important how you teach, you can then use any you want, including something in their mouth, as the horse will be familiar with the work, won’t have to worry about the bit also.
No way is better or worse than another, just so you know your goal and can work thru any method to get to your goals, in the easiest way you can figure for each colt.
Some colts like to work with a snaffle better, something on their noses seem to annoy them, although most we had clearly preferred the rope nose hackamore at first.
The old CA vaqueros also knew those differences, they didn’t just try to make a bridle horse out of any horse out there.
The ones they did train for that were hand picked for that.
I think the books touch on that also.
[QUOTE=KSAQHA;6322958]
Are you referring to Mr. Avila? ;)[/QUOTE]
yes sorry we were discussing Bob Avila back then…I’ll change the spelling
Tamara
Aren’t we talking about bosals?
[QUOTE=7HL;6322971]
Aren’t we talking about bosals?[/QUOTE]
:yes:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/Robintoo/Scan620October092005.jpg
Wow, thank you everybody, all of this is extremely interesting and helpful stuff! I do have on my shelves the books mentioned, and thanks for the links as well.
The bosal sold to me for this horse by the place he came from is one of the fatter rawhide ones, and I’m shaping it now with hot water and bracing it “open.” Will round up mecate and tie when it dries later.
I’ve got an independent seat, have ridden reiners, and love a curb bit on a loose rein so I’m hoping that this will not be a huge reach for me in the “technical” department. The horse is not a greenie, he was broke to the bosal and ridden in it for a number of years before being sold several times before he found his way back.
Before running into his people yesterday, he’d actually given me a strong clue that this was his education because he hadn’t much idea of what to do in a snaffle bit (and rooted on it), had plainly never worn a curb, and when I tried him in the Dr. Cook’s Bitless it felt like Old Home Week and he neck-reined beautifully and “bridled up.”
Will read the links you gave me and pertinent chapters in the books, and report how the first ride went soon!
Not true, actually. Lunging is pretty simple in a bosal, you just have to tie it in a slightly different way.
Richard Caldwell shows and describes the process in his DVD “Starting Horses in the Jacquima”. I learned it from him in a clinic.
You start by taking the shufly end of the mecate, and tying it in a loop around the throatlatch of the horse using a bowline. Place the bosal on the nose loose. Run the tail of the mecate through the bosal under the jaw coming out under the nose. Adjust the bosal so that it’s not pulled up against the jaw, and tie off with a half hitch around the heel knot. The rein will be coming out the front, not the back of the bosal.
Works great. My horse had been taught to lunge off a cavesson before this (dressage style), and didn’t react any differently when lunged in the bosal.
[QUOTE=aktill;6323144]
Not true, actually. Lunging is pretty simple in a bosal, you just have to tie it in a slightly different way.
Richard Caldwell shows and describes the process in his DVD “Starting Horses in the Jacquima”. I learned it from him in a clinic.
You start by taking the shufly end of the mecate, and tying it in a loop around the throatlatch of the horse using a bowline. Place the bosal on the nose loose. Run the tail of the mecate through the bosal under the jaw coming out under the nose. Adjust the bosal so that it’s not pulled up against the jaw, and tie off with a half hitch around the heel knot. The rein will be coming out the front, not the back of the bosal.
Works great. My horse had been taught to lunge off a cavesson before this (dressage style), and didn’t react any differently when lunged in the bosal.[/QUOTE]
that is very cool…the discussion years ago was about the (then new) fad of the 20 foot lunge circle and how one could just “parelli away” as it were in a bosal
thank you for the above…I need to see that DVD !
Tamara
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use