Bouncing Bottoms

[Winding_Down]

Ever so often, I notice, and am appalled, at the way riders, often young, SIT on their horses when out on xc. Yesterday at MDHT, I made a mental note to look for this and was disappointed at the number of lower level (and a few prelim) riders who either sit, or bounce on their horses’ backs when galloping xc and also in the show jumping.

I also made a point of really watching the riders I really admire and noticed that their bums rarely, if ever, touch the saddle. One of my heroes, Lauren Kieffer, was a joy to watch as she sat up, shoulders back, and bum off the saddle, right down to the fences, each and every time.

What is more disturbing, is the bouncing bums are people who I KNOW train with people who should know better. Why the heck are they being put out on course pounding up and down like that.

grrrr…

[McVillesMom]

While I agree with you that this is a bad thing, and that certainly galloping between fences on XC the rider should be out of the saddle, and bouncing is never OK…some horses require a little bit more seat before the jump. I spend quite a bit of time in a three-point seat on my TB in stadium, and definitely several strides out from a jump XC. Bottom line is that if I rode my horse “bum off the saddle, right down to the fences” I’d never get over any of them.

In regard to galloping XC, when I’ve been unable to stay out of the saddle all the way around, it’s been a fitness issue, plain and simple.

[maddiehorse]

When you are just galloping out on XC, yes get in two point. But in stadium and approaching any jump, full seat can be helpful depending on the horse you are on. You may use it to get a horse to slow down, come off the forehand, or protect yourself from a dirty stopper. :winkgrin:

[Murphy_s_Mom]

I haven’t evented in 20 years but when I did my trainer taught all of her students to sit while galloping xc. We didn’t bounce though. At the time I believe there were some big name riders that would sit while galloping and it was the thing to do.

[ponysize]

There are times when you should be out of the seat. There are also times when you need to be in the seat. You need to know how and when to do both.

[Mtn_trails]

I always sit a few strides out from XC fences because I think it steadies her before the fence, otherwise I’m out of the saddle between jumps.

[CindyCRNA]

[QUOTE=Mtn trails;7666125]
I always sit a few strides out from XC fences because I think it steadies her before the fence, otherwise I’m out of the saddle between jumps.[/QUOTE]

This. It takes me coming back from 2-point and sitting deep in the saddle quite a few strides out to get my mare settled and not throwing herself at the jump, then 3 strides out back to 2-point. Most of my CC is spent in 2-point though.

[wsmoak]

When you say ‘bouncing’ I picture someone who’s trying to stay out of the saddle, but just can’t hold their position effectively.

My guess is that you are seeing the general lack of fitness that often comes with the desk job required to support the horse habit.

I spent a long time paying for lessons when I physically could not do what was being asked. Really, what are the instructors supposed to do, refuse to take our money or require us to get in shape before showing up for lessons? That’s not really going to fly with most AA’s. The instructors are likely doing the best they can with what they’ve got to work with.

(And I’m not talking about being thin, I’m talking about things like being able to hold plank position for 60 or 90 seconds.)

[whitney159]

I got really confused about 6 years ago at a clinic with a trainer who was telling everyone to ride with their bum in the saddle on xcountry, while I’d always been told to keep my butt out of the saddle. So at my next lesson with my usual trainer I flat out said “hey this person was teaching this, what’s with that, where should my butt be, I want your short answer, where do I put it?”. He and his wife are/were upper level competitors and I totally trust what he says as gospel. He stayed away from always and never. When galloping between fences, it is easier on the horse’s back to have your weight off them as a general rule, and he felt that bigger riders especially should do that. But when approaching a fence, there are times you need to sit down and drive. Then there are the times you need to sit up and take a half halt and some people might need to do that while sitting on the horse’s back. He also made the comment that smaller women on big horses might very well need to be sitting during these times, but that HE as a bigger guy didn’t, and then he looked at me funny and told me that I would be fine riding like a man. Hmmm.

[pony_grandma]

What about wagging bottoms? When you’re in two point you can’t stand stiff you need to absorb the movement, altho I have seen bracing, but it would seem that wagging would affect the horse.

[MKV]

I just went and watched Lauren’s SJ and XC rounds at Rolex to see exactly what you mean. I wish I could ride like that!

I agree with others about rider fitness playing a large role in the bouncing. I have a bad habit of being too stiff in my hips when I ride, so in two point I “bounce”. My trainer trainer gets on me about it. It’s something I’m working on but I just lack the fitness to ride like Lauren. So for me it’s a combination of fitness and stiffness…or maybe I’m stiff because I lack fitness. It’s definitely something that I think about when I ride and try not to do.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Depends on horse. I’m off their back galloping. I will come back to a light seat before some fences. I will also come back into a light seat in stadium for the turns and when jumping bigger fences but in stadium it depends. Some riders interfere with their seat and get left behind, for them, they need to be off their horse’s back.

[SmartAlex]

[QUOTE=wsmoak;7666152]
When you say ‘bouncing’ I picture someone who’s trying to stay out of the saddle, but just can’t hold their position effectively.[/QUOTE]

And I picture what happens to me: Although my weight is up out of the saddle, the saddle seat comes up and smacks my fluffy butt. Very disconcerting.

[enjoytheride]

I canter half passed the entire XC course two weeks ago with my butt firmly planted in the saddle after I almost got winged right off the side when my pony zagged to avoid a bear lurking in the bushes.

[Jeannette_formerly_ponygyrl]

Competition doesn’t necessarily bring out the best performance in riders, of course. I’ve got several tweens who are getting ready to be able to head out to BN type competitions, and though we have been spending a lot of time shifting between sitting the canter and getting up out of the tack, it still takes reminding them sometimes, and I just can’t promise they’ll pull it off to your or my satisfaction at their first XC run.
An amateur rider made a comment at a Mark Philips clinic years along the lines of “Gee, we must be a lot different than teaching the Team riders, eh?” I appreciated his reply - “No, everyone does the same things wrong when the pin falls out. It just takes more to get the pin to fall with those riders.”
It is lovely, of course, to see fit, harmonious horse and riders looking the picture of perfection galloping with ease across the the countryside - but at some point if their butts weren’t in the saddle I bet they were commenting some other cardinal sin. The world kept turning, and they improved…
Not that I don’t put my judgey pants on about the very same thing, but having done the very thing wrong at a show I had been working hard in lessons to fix, I try to be cautious about blaming the instructor or riders’ total ignorance for flaws…

[goodmorning]

Idk, I see a lot of bad sitting & angry horses. Watch a good jumper rider - McClain Ward, sit - there is no bouncing! Watch WFP sit before a fence on XC, it’s soft & not the sitting that I see so often screamed while watching a XC or Jumping lesson taught but some event trainers; bounce bounce bounce on their bottom. No wonder the horses become stoppers, have terrible jump form, pull rails, don’t get lead changes, and otherwise look miserable. Now, I will also say yes competition can bring out the worst & there’s a learning curve, but, shouldn’t last too long & should surely not be taught. Sink into the heel. Sink into the saddle, “SIT!” Should be reserved for an Oh Fruitbat moment.

Pet peeve.

[goodmorning]

SmartAlex, that’s generally a saddle fit issue, can shim the front for it, or get help from a saddle fitter if needed.

[Manahmanah]

I will generally go on “cruise control” (2pt) between fences and sit 6-7 strides out.

[Hilary]

I think a lot of people have their stirrups too long and do not have the strength to be that up for that long. And no one has shown them the videos of themselves slapping the saddle every stride.

I think I know exactly what the OP is talking about and it’s not just the LL riders. When you watch someone who does NOT do it, who can really stay entirely up off the horse’s back until they decide they need a bit of seat, then you say “oh, right - that’s how you stay up”. Usually they have much shorter stirrups - and no, they are not necessarily in the stand and lean on the bridge position. That keeps you out of the saddle but your weight is now on the withers.

I can’t claim to be the poster child for staying up - I know I keep my stirrups a little longer than I should with my green horse because I don’t want to come off if she’s silly, but I try to be light if I touch the saddle.

[Winding_Down]

I totally agree that there are times that one should sit, like in one of those “Oh Fruitbat” moments, as goodmorning noted. But I have watched these very good riders who consistently do well at all levels and with easy and difficult horses, and they do NOT sit down in the tack unless it’s one of those moments. All the way down to the fences. Seriously, go watch a video of Lauren Kieffer (there are others of course) and note how light but tight in the tack she is.

McLain Ward is a good one to watch in the sj. And there are always points at which one sits in the sj and it varies from horse to horse. I have one horse who goes best if he is ridden in a 2-point in sj, and another that goes better in a 1/2 seat.

I’m certainly not saying that I don’t occasionally bump my bum. I hope I don’t. Oh drat… :eek: