I feel the same. Too much sitting and/or back wacking. Usually with too long of a stirrup. And, also not to unusual to see those riders with big bits because their horses are “strong.” My guess is they wouldn’t be strong if they shortened their stirrups, spent some time working on their two point, and learning how to put their hands down.
Movement vs. bouncing is a big difference.
Mark Todd has a lot of movement in his hips, but his upper body and control is excellent. He’s just so long, and that movement has to be absorbed somewhere. Some horses are just create a lot of motion while others are more efficient in their stride. If the weight is off the back and balanced, it works. Watch that old Thrills and Spills clip and you will see BIG amounts of movement of MT’s bum, while Ginny moves less (and Lauren even less). All three, however, are balanced and strong. And as some have said, for some of us the saddle comes up and hits us in the fluff of the bum even as we are off the horse’s back! 
Movement vs. bouncing is a big difference.
Mark Todd has a lot of movement in his hips, but his upper body and control is excellent. He’s just so long, and that movement has to be absorbed somewhere. Some horses are just create a lot of motion while others are more efficient in their stride. If the weight is off the back and balanced, it works. Watch that old Thrills and Spills clip and you will see BIG amounts of movement of MT’s bum, while Ginny moves less (and Lauren even less). All three, however, are balanced and strong. And as some have said, for some of us the saddle comes up and hits us in the fluff of the bum even as we are off the horse’s back!
[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7666661]
I feel the same. Too much sitting and/or back wacking. Usually with too long of a stirrup. And, also not to unusual to see those riders with big bits because their horses are “strong.” My guess is they wouldn’t be strong if they shortened their stirrups, spent some time working on their two point, and learning how to put their hands down.[/QUOTE]
^^^this. 
I see this all the time too…drives me nuts! It also puts the riders at risk, they are not in a strong base position galloping around sitting down bouncing all over. 2 point has it’s place for many reasons. To help place you in the absolute safest and best position for control while galloping, to get up off the horses back, etc. Sitting down you are much more likely to get left behind or fly to the side if your horse moves sideways from a spook or something.
The trainers in my area that do event don’t teach their students this. It’s like they forget to teach the part about riding between the fences.
I think a lot really depends. I was at MDHT on Sat. I didn’t see a lot of sitting while galloping. There were a few too many leaning fwd on BN and pulling at the same time resulting in stops. But also some good riding. There are always a few who sit too much but some sitting before the fence is just fine.
In my case, I’m very fluffy at the moment. I’m working on it but once you are over 40, it really takes a long time to get rid of the fluff. That said, my coach (Jimmy Wofford) in our last xc school had me sit more coming into the fence. So I was practicing that this past weekend. My preference is NOT to sit so I’m having to force myself back. Unfortunately the fences were not holding my boy much. So not our best round. His bit is just a piece of rubber. But in between the fences I am off his back. Just the fluff of my backside does get in the way. And for perspective, we were 25 or 30 seconds under OT done on purpose as he is about ready to move up.
While I never “bounce”, my horse REQUIRES sitting a lot. He is still in the process of being retrained from his former way of going, and I am still learning too - and he is the king of the forehand. If I’m in the air, his conformation makes it all too easy for him to start to make love to the ground again.
“Oh fruitbat” just about made the spit my tea on my computer. Thanks for the laugh “goodmorning”.
[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7666661]
I feel the same. Too much sitting and/or back wacking. Usually with too long of a stirrup. And, also not to unusual to see those riders with big bits because their horses are “strong.” My guess is they wouldn’t be strong if they shortened their stirrups, spent some time working on their two point, and learning how to put their hands down.[/QUOTE]
(At a hunter show, non rated but for “Finals”) I saw a few ponies/horses w/ crazy pehlams… for a 2 foot class. Riders couldn’t ride for a damn (cantering around on the wrong lead w/ no clue) . Turns out they were from the same “trainer’s” barn. One actually posted a video on FB saying (not verbatum) " thanks to my trainer for getting me around a course of fences finally. oh- I didn’t know I was on the wrong lead I was too concentrated on how fast we were going". Um… you put in 9 strides down an easy 7 on a horse… who threw her head up in every corner to get you off her freaking face.
Sorry. Drives me nuts. Rant over.
And one does not have to lean forward to be out of the tack… note that for LK, there is a moment or two in the saddle (almost like taking a post or two) and then light and off the horse’s back.
And WFP does sit but very infrequently…
I do think that I sit but I do so because I don’t have the core strength to really have my leg on and balanced in front of some fences. Riders like LK and others are so strong in their core and so balanced that they do not have to rely on the saddle to support them as much as I do. I also am on the fluffy side at the moment… and bfne, I’m also working on it. (excuse is the dang desk job)
But despite the need for most of us to sit periodically, I see no reason that a beginning level rider has to sit down throughout a xc or sj round. Drives me fruitbat crazy, :lol:
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7667074]
And one does not have to lean forward to be out of the tack… note that there is a moment or two in the saddle (almost like taking a post or two) and then light and off the horse’s back.
http://youtu.be/nUiquccWdhQ[/QUOTE]
true but Jimmy was yelling about hovering over the saddle. There is a time to sit. You should also be able to sit and NoT drive. My point is that there are times that even good trainers want your butt in the saddle. (But not sitting on your pockets).
I’m more appalled by the over bitting.
I, too, try to stay in 2-point all the way around XC. My horse doesn’t require me to sit before the fences. If I can just “lean away” or sit up/back a few strides out we are good. In SJ though I am trying to sit more between fences to give my horse a more positive ride. I find it hard to sit his ENORMOUS canter when my stirrups are short enough for jumping, however, and feel like I’m not soft enough quite yet. Fitness and core strength are definitely part of my trouble and I’m working on it.
Though, he is so “expressive” with his hind end in the canter that he’s been known to throw my saddle up to slap me in the butt even in a true, galloping 2-point. So maybe it’s not all me.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7667088]
I’m more appalled by the over bitting.[/QUOTE]
Gee Golly, now I will get on another rant! I am also dismayed at how many bit up horses because they don’t know how to get them in front of their leg. It was a lightbulb moment for me, decades ago, when I realized that in order to control my bold ottb, I had to kick him forward, and not ride backwards. Worked with a gal last spring who insisted on bitting her horse up to the extreme and yep, they topped out at their first training later on in the early summer. grrrr…
I think a lot depends on the horse. One of my horses likes me in the two point all the way around. Another requires me to sit about 5 strides out from the fence. Different horses, different rides.
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7667104]
Gee Golly, now I will get on another rant! I am also dismayed at how many bit up horses because they don’t know how to get them in front of their leg. It was a lightbulb moment for me, decades ago, when I realized that in order to control my bold ottb, I had to kick him forward, and not ride backwards. Worked with a gal last spring who insisted on bitting her horse up to the extreme and yep, they topped out at their first training later on in the early summer. grrrr…[/QUOTE]
Agree 100%, people need to learn to let go…to go forward…gosh that means riding your horse from the leg, blasphemy
This is such an interesting discussion for me.
I have the opposite problem in that my preferred position is two point and out of the saddle. I hate putting my seat in the tack.
If I could do my entire dressage test this way I would.
Here is a video of Sally Cousins, who imo is one of the most talented jump riders out there. She does sit, however she does NOT bounce, and when she is in the saddle she appears very light in the saddle and there is never a “wack” like I’ve referred to above.
Note also the “posting” motion you see with Sally as in Lauren’s riding. Moments of engaging the horse’s hind end…
I watch Sally often because she is not tall and lanky like some of the others. I am short (5’3") with a long femur, so I try to watch those who have a similar build.
[QUOTE=west5;7667246]
This is such an interesting discussion for me.
I have the opposite problem in that my preferred position is two point and out of the saddle. I hate putting my seat in the tack.
If I could do my entire dressage test this way I would. :)[/QUOTE]
IMO, that is far preferred to sitting and being behind the motion, sitting down early on landing etc. I’ve ridden in 2-point before when I felt like my timing was off. There was an OP on another thread who was having difficulty with sitting down too early and one of the recommendations was to ride in 2-point and her response was that her trainer wants her to sit… well… okay… then you will jump and sit… and land early.
The key is to go from 2 point to being able to be out of the tack and having your shoulders back… that requires a great deal more core strength than either sitting or 2-pointing. And most go from 2-point to sitting to 2-point, which is just fine but not if the sitting overrides the 2-point and interferes with the horse’s back…
Hmmm. I have to sit to connect my mare coming into a jump (we get flat)… it’s easier to 2-pt between fences tho… cannot imagine sitting it all the way around like a dressage test (unless it’s for self preservation of course. Then all bets are off. :lol: )
And we go XC in our dressage bit…
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7667272]
I watch Sally often because she is not tall and lanky like some of the others. I am short (5’3") with a long femur, so I try to watch those who have a similar build.[/QUOTE]
I do think that is important. I’m built VERY differently. I’m 5’9" with a very long leg (especially femur) but I also have a taller body. When David Stackhouse built me a saddle, he was shocked how long my leg is. So I tend to watch different riders.
Saddle fit is also critical. The saddle I’m currently riding in is too small but is what fits the horse (who has a very short back). It does at least have a good balance though. That will have to change when we start jumping bigger…I’ll need something that is a better fit for me.
