bfne, you can be Lauren Kieffer and I can be Sally Cousins. We are all set.
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7667280]
The key is to go from 2 point to being able to be out of the tack and having your shoulders back… that requires a great deal more core strength than either sitting or 2-pointing…[/QUOTE]
I can do this pretty well, somewhat horse dependent, I prefer a lighter smaller horse where it is less of a challenge.
I also have what I call the amateur “wheeee” factor. As in “wheeee I’m flying”, “wheeee I made it over the fence” and forgetting to sit up and ride upon landing.
However, I still struggle occasionally with a canter depart during a dressage test as my instinct is to be “up”. I’m ok with no stirrups but the second I take them back I have to really work on keeping my leg long and relaxed while sitting in the tack. Somehow I don’t brace as much in 2-point and this seems counterintuitive to me.
[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7666661]
I feel the same. Too much sitting and/or back wacking. Usually with too long of a stirrup. And, also not to unusual to see those riders with big bits because their horses are “strong.” My guess is they wouldn’t be strong if they shortened their stirrups, spent some time working on their two point, and learning how to put their hands down.[/QUOTE]
Exactly!!
This is a big pet peeve of mine, because I actually see some trainers teaching their riders to sit down while galloping between jumps on cross country. They are being told that it helps to keep both horse and rider more balanced. NO, a horse does not need the rider’s butt in the saddle to be balanced. And every cross country rider should be able to learn to stay in balance off of the horse’s back (and without using the horse’s mouth or neck as well). It can take lots of time and hard work to find this balance (and the shorter stirrups that Yellowbritches mentions), but a rider should not go cross country without it!
[QUOTE=lstevenson;7667330]
Exactly!!
This is a big pet peeve of mine, because I actually see some trainers teaching their riders to sit down while galloping between jumps on cross country. They are being told that it helps to keep both horse and rider more balanced. NO, a horse does not need the rider’s butt in the saddle to be balanced. And every cross country rider should be able to learn to stay in balance off of the horse’s back (and without using the horse’s mouth or neck as well). It can take lots of time and hard work to find this balance (and the shorter stirrups that Yellowbritches mentions), but a rider should not go cross country without it!
My Virtual Eventing Coach
Facebook page[/QUOTE]
Yep YEP YEP!!! And there is a neckstrap that can help if they really can’t stay off the saddle! Grab it and hang on, if you must.
[QUOTE=lstevenson;7667330]
Exactly!!
This is a big pet peeve of mine, because I actually see some trainers teaching their riders to sit down while galloping between jumps on cross country. They are being told that it helps to keep both horse and rider more balanced. NO, a horse does not need the rider’s butt in the saddle to be balanced.][/QUOTE]
This doesn’t even really make sense though.
If I have a horse that is a little fresh and playing underneath me, I feel most secure up off their back. That way the little bucks/happy dance goes on beneath me but does not disrupt my position. If I am sitting I feel more dislodged by the horse’s antics.
Same is true for x-country. The terrain feels “smoother” if you are out of the tack.
If that makes sense.
[QUOTE=west5;7667355]
This doesn’t even really make sense though.
If I have a horse that is a little fresh and playing underneath me, I feel most secure up off their back. That way the little bucks/happy dance goes on beneath me but does not disrupt my position. If I am sitting I feel more dislodged by the horse’s antics.
Same is true for x-country. The terrain feels “smoother” if you are out of the tack.
If that makes sense.[/QUOTE]
I agree…. it makes no sense!! Yet I have heard several trainers say it…
[QUOTE=west5;7667246]
This is such an interesting discussion for me.
I have the opposite problem in that my preferred position is two point and out of the saddle. I hate putting my seat in the tack.
If I could do my entire dressage test this way I would. :)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7667280]IMO, that is far preferred to sitting and being behind the motion, sitting down early on landing etc. I’ve ridden in 2-point before when I felt like my timing was off. There was an OP on another thread who was having difficulty with sitting down too early and one of the recommendations was to ride in 2-point and her response was that her trainer wants her to sit… well… okay… then you will jump and sit… and land early.
The key is to go from 2 point to being able to be out of the tack and having your shoulders back… that requires a great deal more core strength than either sitting or 2-pointing. (bolding mine) And most go from 2-point to sitting to 2-point, which is just fine but not if the sitting overrides the 2-point and interferes with the horse’s back…[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=west5;7667355]If I have a horse that is a little fresh and playing underneath me, I feel most secure up off their back. That way the little bucks/happy dance goes on beneath me but does not disrupt my position. If I am sitting I feel more dislodged by the horse’s antics.
Same is true for x-country. The terrain feels “smoother” if you are out of the tack.
If that makes sense.[/QUOTE]
west5–YES!!! I was just whining to Action42 this weekend that as I’m coming back after an injury, I can’t figure out how to sit the canter to save my life! I spent 20 years as a hunter either 2-pointing or very lightly 3-pointing and that’s just what my body does. And as far as preferring to be slightly above the playful horse–AMEN! My failed eventer was a player and if I was slightly up, I could ride through anything. But when I’d be stuck “in” the tack, then I was risking becoming a lawn dart.
i feel lucky that on Ollie I won’t ever have to worry about playing and other shenanigans. It would take an act of God for him to lift his butt up. He tried ONE time to buck, and got about half an inch off the ground before he grunted and said, “Nope. Too hard.”
OP is not referring to sitting before a fence…she means sitting around the course…like during the galloping stretches. I agree on the comment about stirrup length too…I see so many kids with super long stirrups. UGH. Is Pony Club not as popular? We used to do many xc position and pace clinics…never see them anymore.
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7667280]
The key is to go from 2 point to being able to be out of the tack and having your shoulders back… that requires a great deal more core strength than either sitting or 2-pointing. [/QUOTE]
This requires balance more than core strength. Not the same thing. Core strength may help with balance, but the hip muscles are at least equally (and perhaps more) important here.
But again, the key element is balance. You can go find a crossfitter with abs and ‘core strength’ (which usually means abs and lower back, omitting the hip muscles) to burn, but odds are that crossfitter wouldn’t have the balance to pull off a 2-point-to-sitting-to-2-point on a horse.
Most riders need to improve their balance on a horse. If a core strength program helps them with that, fine. But balance on a horse improves by working on riding in balance on a horse.
As I’ve mentioned on here before, Mike Plumb is still obsessing on his balance. Every day. Or watch John Whitaker. Not the poster boy for classic position. Not someone you’d see hanging about the gym. But his balance on a horse is unbelievable.
JER, I do think that core strength plays a significant role. I find that after a winter of light riding, my core strength is diminished and concurrently, it is harder to stay out of the tack. Balance isn’t really affected.
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7667530]
JER, I do think that core strength plays a significant role. I find that after a winter of light riding, my core strength is diminished and concurrently, it is harder to stay out of the tack. Balance isn’t really affected.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know how you can conclude that balance isn’t affected or that your balance isn’t ‘diminished’ after a winter of light riding. It’s the saddle time that you’re lacking, whereas you may be doing many things on a daily basis – like mucking out, carrying buckets, household stuff – that involve using your core.
whatevah
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7667761]
whatevah[/QUOTE]
What a rude response. I sincerely hope it makes you feel better in the short term.
I SEE WADDED PANTIES. THEY ARE EVERYWHERE. THEY DON’T EVEN KNOW THEY ARE WADDED.
[QUOTE=PaintedHunter;7667881]
I SEE WADDED WANTIES. THEY ARE EVERYWHRERE. THEY DON’T EVEN KNOW THEY ARE WADDED.[/QUOTE]
Wadded wanties?
But I’ll take this as a serious addition to the discussion on this thread.
It’s definitely an interesting suggestion. Perhaps the real cause of ‘bouncing bottoms’ is wadded panties?
Hahhahaha, I heart PH!
I get what you are saying, WD, but on the other hand, ummmm, yeah, I’m never gonna ride like LK or WFP. EVAH!
I have hella strong legs and a very physical job…but I also have back arthritis, a hole in my knee cartilage, sweat like some beast in an inferno & dehydrate in four seconds and all of this adds up to it’s pretty much physically impossible for me to “soften my lower back and hips” like I’m supposed to without bringing my sports medicine guy with me to horse trials, haha. I lost my PT and while the muscle relaxers are awesome, drooling and falling off my horse asleep will not be conducive to the best XC round!!
So yeah, I can stay out of the saddle, but since I’m not riding 10 or 5 or even 2 horses a day and I have to show up at the office and do field work all summer, well, I’m not going to get too judgy unless I see just plain bad horsemanship choices.
And it is very true that different horses have different rides. On Solo, you better sit your butt on his back well before a fence unless you wanted to jump it either very awkwardly on the forehand or by yourself!! It took me a while to adjust to Encore’s COMPLETELY opposite ride of staying light and forward.
wah- wah. panties. Fixed. I had an electronic lisp.
Wadded panties have been known to cause a multitude of afflictions, from bouncing bottoms to accidental diamond production, to swamp a$$.
Vagisil invented wadded panties.
Marketing genius.
Like west5 and jen-s, I’m much more naturally out of the tack; that may be my hunter background coming through. I remember once being (jokingly!) threatened with a strip of tacks on the seat of my saddle. It has taken me a long time to get comfortable with sitting, and to realize that to produce a good jumping round on my horse, I actually need to spend most of the time with my butt in the tack, unless I’d like a lot of gallopy fliers. I’m always so happy to get out on XC and NOT worry about planting my butt, except for on approach to the fences. Having to canter around a course in a full-seat just seems horrifically uncomfortable and unnatural to me.
I have to wonder too if a lot of the “bouncing” you’re seeing is the horrific “posting at the canter” that’s so frequently seen in H/J today. I can see a moment or two of it (like in the Sally Cousins video, notably at the start and on the uphill turn) to re-establish rhythm, but so often you see people riding a whole course that way, and it looks ridiculous.
