Breed suggestions for stallion

[China_Doll]

I have a Friesian Sport Baroque mare that I may breed. This is not about should I breed or buy. I occasionally do searches on horses for sale that would fit my criteria and they are few and far between even with a decent budget. Its about what breed of stallion. I know all that is involved as I have bred and raised a few foals that I keep for myself.

She is 15H and I would like to stay in that size range or 15.1 but I dont want big offspring so I probably wouldn’t breed her to anything over 15.2 although I have had a very large horse out of 2 very small parents so I know that is no guarantee with some.
I have a alot of carriage driving equipment for this size horse that I would want to continue using so that is one reason size matters.
I am not really enamored with purebred Friesians but may end up that route for a 3/4 but they are a high maintenance horse somewhat and do not have the stamina that I would like.

I would like to add more neck and bone to the offspring.
If I went to purchase a horse I would lean towards a Lippitt Morgan and wondering if that would be a bad cross.
So I’m trying to come up with a breed of stallion with the versitility of the Morgan and concerned with the foal not being registered though. I haven’t checked so not sure if it would still be a Friesian sport with only 25% Friesian.

[ambar]

So the job of the prospective foal is to be a driving horse?

As a rule of thumb, I choose a stallion who is the same general “type” as a given mare, even if they are not of the same breed. So when I went looking, for example, for a TB mare from which to breed Anglo-Arabs, I chose a compact-bodied mare who looked (in overall frame and balance) like a larger version of my stallion. My theory here is that when you breed two very different types of horses, you are risking getting something in the first generation that looks like it’s thrown together from spare parts.

If you want more stamina than going back to a Friesian would give you (you think), my first question would be, what’s the other half of this mare’s pedigree? My second would be, what about a Lipizzan stallion? Compact, talented, and the mares are traditionally driven.

[yourcolorfuladdictio]

So I guess it depends on what registry you are aiming to register with. This particular one allows all the way down to 25%. http://www.friesiansporthorseassociation.com/FriesianSporthorseRegistrationGuidelines.html

And here is the answer to their idea about your morgan outcross:

Why are some non-traditional breeds acceptable for Auxiliary Book registration, and others are not?

Some non-traditional breeds have been proven to cross nicely specifically with Friesians, while still keeping the Friesian Sporthorse objective in mind. Because these breeds are not as accepted or proven for sporthorse breeding as Warmbloods or Thoroughbreds, they are not eligible for Main Book registration, however they do deserve a place in the development of the Friesian Sporthorse, and therefore are eligible for full registration in the Auxiliary Book.

[CrowneDragon]

I’m curious what your mare’s breeding is (Friesian x ?) and how tall her parents were. That would be helpful in figuring out what size she will produce, since that sounds like an important consideration.

[China_Doll]

[QUOTE=ambar;7819793]
So the job of the prospective foal is to be a driving horse?

As a rule of thumb, I choose a stallion who is the same general “type” as a given mare, even if they are not of the same breed. So when I went looking, for example, for a TB mare from which to breed Anglo-Arabs, I chose a compact-bodied mare who looked (in overall frame and balance) like a larger version of my stallion. My theory here is that when you breed two very different types of horses, you are risking getting something in the first generation that looks like it’s thrown together from spare parts.

If you want more stamina than going back to a Friesian would give you (you think), my first question would be, what’s the other half of this mare’s pedigree? My second would be, what about a Lipizzan stallion? Compact, talented, and the mares are traditionally driven.[/QUOTE]

Most people ask if my mare is a morgan. Those that know Friesians automatically call her a Friesian when they see her. Driving and riding, trail and show. I do not know how color gentetics work but I would not want a white or grey so not sure if that is a possibility with a Lipizzan. I dont see many around either. I did find out that if bred to a Morgan she would be eligible for Moresian reg. The other half is Peruvian.

[China_Doll]

[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7819932]
I’m curious what your mare’s breeding is (Friesian x ?) and how tall her parents were. That would be helpful in figuring out what size she will produce, since that sounds like an important consideration.[/QUOTE] Her Sire was Zorro. I don’t know how tall he was but I would say over 16H easily. The Peruvian mare was maybe 14H. I bred the 14H mare to a 14.2H walker and got a 15.3H horse though so I know sizes can be misleading. I dont see how to post a photo or I would.

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=China Doll;7821422]
Her Sire was Zorro. I don’t know how tall he was but I would say over 16H easily. The Peruvian mare was maybe 14H. I bred the 14H mare to a 14.2H walker and got a 15.3H horse though so I know sizes can be misleading. I dont see how to post a photo or I would.[/QUOTE]
With the wide ranges of size in her pedigree I think it is going to be really tough to nail down a narrow size range for a foal. If she is a maiden, even more so. I’d guess that if too small is a better alternative for you than too big, I’d narrow stallion choices down to those that are really skimming the lower end of where you want to be, if not somewhat below. Either way, you may end up with something smaller than her dam or larger than her sire instead of the size of her because those genes are in there.

[ewells]

Have you considered a PRE / Andalusian? You should get the size, neck and bone you are looking for and there are lots of stallions that are not Grey. I agree that a Morgan could also give you what you are looking for just have to find the right stallion with that old style bone and neck.

[poltroon]

Maybe not in Iowa, but there are some awfully nice Lippitt-type Morgans out there already born that are not very expensive. The Peruvian and Friesian cross is already mixing in some very different types from quite different origins, and I’d be kind of concerned that you’d have quite unpredictable results crossing to a third unrelated breed. It might be worth searching outside your area before you’re sure you can’t buy what you want. Sometimes the people who breed the horses you’re looking for aren’t putting out online ads - if you network into the Morgan community you’ll probably come across some stallions you didn’t know existed, and talking to breeders (you’ll want to see the offspring anyway, yes?), you might be pleasantly surprised at what you could find on the ground.

[columbus]

Welsh section D

I know Zorro and he doesn’t throw tall though he looks bigger than he is…very uphill. He is not as tall as stated though his withers stands very high and like all Friesians his neck comes out so high that when you pick a point to measure from you can make them taller. I have a friend whose Zorro cross is smaller than her Arabian dam. http://www.quillanewelsh.com/ http://www.winterlakewelsh.com/stallion.html http://www.welshcobusa.com/stallion.php http://www.daventryequestrian.com/goldhillsbrandysnap/index.html They would make an athlete but they have some zip. Very smart…sometimes too smart.

[JB]

IMHO you couldn’t go wrong with a nice Morgan stallion.

The Morgan type is so strong that the vast majority of crosses I’ve seen have been really quite nice, even when I heard the cross and thought “now WHY would you do that?”. I’ve seen some really, really nice Morgan x Friesian and M x draft crosses.

So yes, Morgan, and especially Lippitt, is exactly what I’d do, if I were to do that.

[China_Doll]

You have given me some good info. Never thought about a welsh cob but the links I clicked on the were under 15h.
I do agree that I may find a Morgan that isn’t advertised and need to network to find those.
I have done Internet searches for Morgan’s not limiting locations and up to 10k in the past and not much comes up in my other criteria. I would like a younger horse so I can start and train as I see fit. I would travel to see some but just haven’t seen much to go see.

[MysticOakRanch]

Friesian Heritage Horse http://www.friesianheritage.com/ also registers down to 25% Friesian. They have optional inspections, and a lot of services for members.

The Friesian and Morgan have a lot of similarities - if you read about the history of the Morgan breed, there is a strong theory that the Friesian may be part of its foundation (Jeannie Mellin Herrick is one of the leading researchers of the breed). So it makes a lot of sense to consider that cross (type to type), and the Morgan tends to be a smaller sized horse, so you should be able to find a stallion with an established breeding history to see what they are throwing.

I had a Friesian/Morgan cross several years ago, and he was an awesome horse - three lovely gaits, and just beautiful to look at. And SMART.

I also bred a 1/4 Friesian/1/2 Morgan, and got a really cute little guy who can jump the moon. He is eventing. And SMART. With a great work ethic.

I think you will get much more info about Morgans on a different bulletin board then this one, which is really focused on the Warmblood type of sport horse. You might look up some Morgan breeders. I know a few but they are focused on eventing types, so not a lot of help from me on specific breeders.

[poltroon]

The people who love and breed old type Morgans tend not to be the sort of people who post timely sales ads on the internet.

This page may be a good place to start to give you people to call: http://www.brookridgemorgans.com/links.htm

Once you start talking to people on the phone, I’m sure they’ll be able to network you to some nice horses for sale, or to a stallion that might cross well with your mare.

[todaysspecial]

[QUOTE=columbus;7827235]
I know Zorro and he doesn’t throw tall though he looks bigger than he is…very uphill. He is not as tall as stated though his withers stands very high and like all Friesians his neck comes out so high that when you pick a point to measure from you can make them taller. I have a friend whose Zorro cross is smaller than her Arabian dam. http://www.quillanewelsh.com/ http://www.winterlakewelsh.com/stallion.html http://www.welshcobusa.com/stallion.php http://www.daventryequestrian.com/goldhillsbrandysnap/index.html They would make an athlete but they have some zip. Very smart…sometimes too smart.[/QUOTE]

I was going to suggest you look for a nice cobby fellow, too, with your wish list.

[Donatella]

Have you looked at this stallion? http://www.riveroaksfarm.net/Lexington.html

He’s stunning. He’s 1/2 Friesian and competing Grand Prix, and also already Approved with the Friesian Sporthorse Association which was mentioned earlier. Looks like he’s proving himself thru his offspring too.

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=columbus;7827235]
I know Zorro and he doesn’t throw tall though he looks bigger than he is…very uphill. He is not as tall as stated though his withers stands very high and like all Friesians his neck comes out so high that when you pick a point to measure from you can make them taller. I have a friend whose Zorro cross is smaller than her Arabian dam. www.daventryequestrian.com/goldhillsbrandysnap/index.html They would make an athlete but they have some zip. Very smart…sometimes too smart.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for suggesting my stallion. After reading through the thread and reading through what the OP is looking for, she’s pretty much described a Section D Welsh Cob to a T. Unfortunately, most Welsh Cobs are in the 14.0 to 15.0 HH range…as once they start getting taller than 15.1 HH, many of them start to loose their “type”, and that is something that is very important to the heritage of the breed. Our Section D Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap is 14.3 1/2 HH. Two of Quillane’s Welsh Cob stallions, Quillane Apollo and Gallod Auryn, are over 15.1 HH and both very typey boys. All three of these boys have a great reputation for fresh shipped semen.

[sherian]

if you like old style Morgans, maybe try looking at some Canadians - supposed to be related breeds

[2tempe]

A woman I knew in upstate NY was big-time into driving, and she had a 4-in-hand of Friesian - Morgan crosses back in the 90’s. She was VERY successful with them.

[_Tradewind]

[QUOTE=ewells;7826965]
Have you considered a PRE / Andalusian? You should get the size, neck and bone you are looking for and there are lots of stallions that are not Grey. [/QUOTE]

I have to disagree that Andalusians will add bone. In fact, my observation is that crossbreds tend to have as much bone as that which they are crossed with (often lighter in bone than one would expect). I have an Andalusian/TB who is built like a TB, and this is quite typical of this type of cross.