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Breeders who sell puppies to pet stores?

The Menagerie
#81

[QUOTE=shayaalliard;7472380]
My store did this exactly. Our puppies were 90% “oops the dog had puppies”. The local shelter referred them to us when they filled up. We took them in, got them vetted, cleaned them up and sold them on. Not quite rescue but not puppy mills either. I thought it was a good in between, and kept a lot of puppies and kittens out of a shelter. Sadly, under public pressure from the “ALL PET STORE PUPPIES ARE FROM PUPPY MILLS WAAAAAHHH” crowd, we stopped taking in puppies and kittens. The euth rate that summer at the local shelter went WAY WAY up for babies, especially the kittens.[/QUOTE]

Hum, thats really unfortunate that the kill rate went up due to your store not being able to sell the surplus unwanted puppies and kittens.

Did your store refer people looking for puppies to the shelter? Seems like if you had a steady stream of buyers, you could send them that way. Maybe do an offer, if a customer comes in with a receipt from the shelter for a new adoption, they can get 10% new dog care kit - you still get sales, shelter saves lives.

My local pet store chain holds adoption events, every weekend during kitten season, and all summer for the dogs. Local shelters and rescues come in with available animals for the shoppers to view and adopt. The store has “care packages” that they sell to the adopters - again, win win. Animals find homes, store increases sales and gets new customers.

#82

Ike is adorable. :slight_smile:

Even before I knew about puppy mills I was baffled that people would spend a decent amount of money buying a dog from a pet store when they could likely get one cheaper and see the parents.

I have three shelter mutts and that’s probably all I’ll ever have. I can do without the puppy phase too.

I have a co worker who thinks that her dog, which they are thinking of loaning out as stud yet again, can’t possibly have bad hips or be the one passing it on because he is just fine. They own a female from one of his litters and she has bad hips. Must have been the mom.

#83

I have a co-worker who bred her American Bulldog to someone else’s American Bulldog, just because they were both the same breed. The male (hers) is dog aggressive and people aggressive and huge. He got so uncontrollable they sent him to live with relative on the other side of the country. She saw no trouble with this, just a “puppies are fun” attitude. Great, make more aggressive, incorrect dogs. :confused: That is just wrong, in a lot of ways…

I do think some breeders and rescues take it too far the other way as well and make it very difficult to get a dog. That’s why people buy from sellers with easier access. They don’t need a show dog, just a nice dog as a companion, so they go to the pound or look in the paper and see what is available. It does not mean they have not thought about what they want and they are not ready for a dog, just that they do not want to go through hoops to buy one, so they take their money elsewhere.

On the other hand, I have a friend who has bought 4 dogs and few cats over the years (all small and cute) and has rehomed each when it got too “much” for one reason or another. I’ll never understand that, and I would never sell her an animal regardless of what it was.

#84

So, is there a general consensus here that a well-bred dog from a reputable breeder doesn’t or shouldn’t charge $1k+ for a puppy? This may be a regional-thing, but I spent about two years just researching breeds and breeders before selecting the breeder I knew I wanted to buy from - and during that time, the only dogs for under $1k were either shelter dogs or BYB. I have nothing against shelter dogs, but we had specific needs/wants in our first dog.

One particular breed had absolutely NO available puppies or older dogs for less than $2500. I bring this up because I keep seeing the suggestion that somehow pet stores are charging outrageous prices for AKC dogs - or did I misunderstand? Quite possible…

#85

[QUOTE=Eye in the Sky;7476323]
So, is there a general consensus here that a well-bred dog from a reputable breeder doesn’t or shouldn’t charge $1k+ for a puppy? This may be a regional-thing, but I spent about two years just researching breeds and breeders before selecting the breeder I knew I wanted to buy from - and during that time, the only dogs for under $1k were either shelter dogs or BYB. I have nothing against shelter dogs, but we had specific needs/wants in our first dog.

One particular breed had absolutely NO available puppies or older dogs for less than $2500. I bring this up because I keep seeing the suggestion that somehow pet stores are charging outrageous prices for AKC dogs - or did I misunderstand? Quite possible…[/QUOTE]

I don’t believe there is any specific number, and the price is most definitely related to the availability of the breed + breeding lines (availability being tied to location of course). For example, in breeds where a typical litter is 2-4 puppies, you should expect to pay more per puppy. But in any breed, you should expect to pay more for the specific lineage…which will depend on the breed. I know of breeders that charge in the $600-$1000 range for well-bred puppies for show or field. A puppy with a dual championship pedigree would likely get more than that, no matter what.

A “pet quality” puppy from a champion litter would still (usually) be a high-quality, healthy puppy with a possible show ring fault, so many breeders would still charge full price, even if they don’t anticipate it being show quality (because they are still well-bred with health checks)…and because sometimes they are actually show quality – my 1st dog was let go to a “pet” home but he finished pretty easily (if I recall, the breeder thought he would go over the standard height but he didn’t). I personally even ranked my own Grand Champion at 4th out of 5 puppy dogs in his litter for “show potential”… but I really liked him anyway. :slight_smile: You never know.

Any “purebred” puppy selling at less than $500 probably doesn’t have the type/number of health checks that a higher priced puppy might have. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it is a bad specimen, but…I’d be willing to pay the extra $200-$500 up front rather than buy a registered puppy that ends up crippled at 2 with dysplasia. You can spend your money up front, or at the back end, and there are no 100% guarantees forever…but I’d rather spend mine up front.

If I had to choose for a pet, I’d choose a breeder that did health checks on untitled dogs, than titles but no health checks. But the best choice would be a breeder that values both.

#86

Cost for a puppy from a reputable breeder varies a lot by breed. In my area, hunting dogs are less than corgis or English cockers, which are less than French Bulldogs. Some has to do with average litter size. Rearing costs go up with larger litters, but the health testing and other stuff that comes before/with creating a litter costs the same regardless of the number of puppies created.

That said, I have seen some breeds such as Cocker spaniels, Goldens, Boxers, and Labs sold for more at the pet store than good breeders in our area charge for nicer puppies from health screened parents.

#87

depends on the breed. how rare is it, is the breed prone to health problems that the breeder has had health approved, are the parents top of their breed? Etc…I think some breeders DO overprice their pups, but if they are getting that, then they must be good dogs. or there is a market for whatever they are breeding.

#88

OK! So glad to hear! I was told for my breed (MS), so expect to pay anywhere from $1k to $2K depending on the breeder and the bitch/sire. I was also told by many reputable breeders to only buy from a breeder who breeds for show, as they are most invested with improving the breed and keeping to true type/temperament. This makes perfect sense to me, and it is ultimately what lead me to the breeder/puppy we chose. Truth be told, for a first dog, this has been the most positive experience I could imagine!

#89

yeah, a well-bred puppy will on average cost you around $1k to $2k. Most good breeders do not make a profit on their puppy sales- most actually lose money. The costs of proving the parents are worth breeding via shows and trials are $$$, health checks aren’t cheap, and raising pups, if done properly, is also not cheap.

Many of the casual backyard breeders sell pups for $500 or so, and do make a profit, because they skip all the important steps necessary for producing a quality dog.

Most rescues are asking for $200 to $400 these days for rescue dogs, which barely covers their costs.

Pet store pups are usually at least as much as a well-bred pup, often more. The “popular” breeds can be astronomically priced- a badly bred “doodle” pup can be $3k in some places. Take a stroll through a puppy mill outlet someday and be prepared to be shocked at what they are selling- mutts for $$$ is par for the course. Most of that is pure profit, because they certainly cut as many corners as they can in the breeding processes.

#90

My own opinion is that pet stores charge outrageous prices for the quality that you get. When you go to a good breeder and pay $2,500 for a puppy you’re not just getting the puppy. You’re getting a valuable resource as well. The breeder and all their knowledge of those particular lines, help raising a puppy of that particular breed and guidance on training, etc.

That same $2,500 spent at a pet store is going to get you access to a poorly bred puppy and a sales clerk that was probably working at McDonald’s up until the day before they sold you that puppy. You’re not going to get any help from them.
Sheilah

#91

I love my rescue babies, all purebreds who just fell thru the cracks.

#92

[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7476790]
My own opinion is that pet stores charge outrageous prices for the quality that you get. When you go to a good breeder and pay $2,500 for a puppy you’re not just getting the puppy. You’re getting a valuable resource as well. The breeder and all their knowledge of those particular lines, help raising a puppy of that particular breed and guidance on training, etc.

That same $2,500 spent at a pet store is going to get you access to a poorly bred puppy and a sales clerk that was probably working at McDonald’s up until the day before they sold you that puppy. You’re not going to get any help from them.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]

Yep. I completely agree! My pup’s breeder also does DNA parentage. I received some interesting and helpful information to provide my vet with regarding medication sensitivities known on the bitch’s side. Anything helps when raising a dog, especially for those of us who are really new to the species! :slight_smile:

#93

[QUOTE=moonriverfarm;7476849]
I love my rescue babies, all purebreds who just fell thru the cracks.[/QUOTE]

I love mine too…but they’re not purebreds that fell through the cracks, at least purebreds by a reputable breeder (who will always take a dog back). They are purebreds from puppy mills and irresponsible backyard breeders.

#94

I love mine too…but they’re not purebreds that fell through the cracks, at least purebreds by a reputable breeder (who will always take a dog back). They are purebreds from puppy mills and irresponsible backyard breeders.

and they may not be “bargains”, money-wise, because they may well have inherited genetic disorders (such as bad hips etc.) that will cost you $$$, that would have been screened out by a good breeder. Also many puppy mill products have temperament and behavioral problems caused by their poor early socialization experiences. Whether you buy the poorly bred dog direct from the pet store/ newspaper ad or get it indirectly via the rescues, the dog’s poor breeding and upbringing may bring you both grief. Good for you to open your home, but there are many advantages to buying from a good breeder.

#95

A long time ago when I lived in a very popular retirement area in the Sunbelt, the local shelter had papered purebreds turned in frequently, and I’m talking about rare breeds also. The best guess I could make is that retirees had animals ‘gifted’ on them, and didn’t want the dogs, so they were turned in at the shelter.

#96

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7475703]
Hum, thats really unfortunate that the kill rate went up due to your store not being able to sell the surplus unwanted puppies and kittens.

Did your store refer people looking for puppies to the shelter? Seems like if you had a steady stream of buyers, you could send them that way. Maybe do an offer, if a customer comes in with a receipt from the shelter for a new adoption, they can get 10% new dog care kit - you still get sales, shelter saves lives.

My local pet store chain holds adoption events, every weekend during kitten season, and all summer for the dogs. Local shelters and rescues come in with available animals for the shoppers to view and adopt. The store has “care packages” that they sell to the adopters - again, win win. Animals find homes, store increases sales and gets new customers.[/QUOTE]

They did and do host the adoption events and tell people to adopt- but really isn;t easy to get people to actually go do it. The perception among our customers was always that adopting was too many hoops to jump through.
Our local no kill for example will only adopt to you if you:
1 OWN your home
2 Pass background check
3 Pass credit check
4 Have NEVER been late for a vaccination ever
5 Have NEVER owned an unaltered pet
6 Have NEVER let a cat go outside

They are full always and keep their cats for YEARS without adopting them. VS walk into my place, walk out with your kitten. There was also a certain amount of impulsivity to it- come in to buy cat food, lose your heart to the kitty reaching out to your from the cage. It was a delicate line to walk, between wanting to find them homes, and wanting to make sure those homes were good ones.

It bothers me a little, the comment about the pet store clerk who just came from McDonalds. That job is HARD work for little pay. No one was there because we wanted “a job”- you do it because you love it. You love people and pets and helping them. I dropped out of college for it- it was my chosen career. I had clerks who are now herpetologists, veterinarians, vet techs, microbiologists, human doctors, educators and more. Someone who put profit over what was best for the animals, or who did not truly care, didn’t last long working for me.

We saw the best and worst of people all the time. There were things that I hated, no question. Perhaps the most unethical thing I ever saw was when petland came to town. Petland puppies are trucked in on a semi- and sold by employees who are paid on COMISSION. How can you ensure the best for the pet and the pet parent, when you have to sell sell sell to feed yourself?

#97

[QUOTE=JanM;7477002]
A long time ago when I lived in a very popular retirement area in the Sunbelt, the local shelter had papered purebreds turned in frequently, and I’m talking about rare breeds also. The best guess I could make is that retirees had animals ‘gifted’ on them, and didn’t want the dogs, so they were turned in at the shelter.[/QUOTE]

Again, papered purebred doesn’t equal well bred. It just means they have papers.

#98

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7477425]
Again, papered purebred doesn’t equal well bred. It just means they have papers.[/QUOTE]

Either way, ugh! :no:

#99

[QUOTE=shayaalliard;7477199]
They did and do host the adoption events and tell people to adopt- but really isn;t easy to get people to actually go do it. The perception among our customers was always that adopting was too many hoops to jump through.
Our local no kill for example will only adopt to you if you:
1 OWN your home
2 Pass background check
3 Pass credit check
4 Have NEVER been late for a vaccination ever
5 Have NEVER owned an unaltered pet
6 Have NEVER let a cat go outside

They are full always and keep their cats for YEARS without adopting them. VS walk into my place, walk out with your kitten. There was also a certain amount of impulsivity to it- come in to buy cat food, lose your heart to the kitty reaching out to your from the cage. It was a delicate line to walk, between wanting to find them homes, and wanting to make sure those homes were good ones.

It bothers me a little, the comment about the pet store clerk who just came from McDonalds. That job is HARD work for little pay. No one was there because we wanted “a job”- you do it because you love it. You love people and pets and helping them. I dropped out of college for it- it was my chosen career. I had clerks who are now herpetologists, veterinarians, vet techs, microbiologists, human doctors, educators and more. Someone who put profit over what was best for the animals, or who did not truly care, didn’t last long working for me.

We saw the best and worst of people all the time. There were things that I hated, no question. Perhaps the most unethical thing I ever saw was when petland came to town. Petland puppies are trucked in on a semi- and sold by employees who are paid on COMISSION. How can you ensure the best for the pet and the pet parent, when you have to sell sell sell to feed yourself?[/QUOTE]

This is ridiculous (meaning the no-kill shelter adoption requirements); I would not qualify to adopt an animal from them–nor would my parents (who have a rescue cat, they are in their 80’s.) Shame on this organization for having such ridiculously rigid criteria, and for denying legitimate, caring homes to their animals as a result of such a “screening process”; are those animals REALLY going to be happier living out their natural lives at the shelter? What exactly are they thinking? It reminds me of the “scolding old matriarch syndrome”–nothing is ever “up to their impossible standards”, and they somehow believe that this makes them morally superior.

YES, obviously they want to avoid adopting out animals to irresponsible, itinerant, jobless, heedless people–duh!!–but are you kidding me?? :rolleyes: Most of the animals in other countries are “unaltered” (NOT that this is a good thing!)

Bless YOU for doing what you did–and do!

And Petland??? Talk about a wrongheaded and unethical way to “place” animals in new homes. It’s as though they were selling furniture.

#100

The Petland model is what I was specifically addressing. In my childhood we had Doctor’s Pet Shop and Pet City. Puppy mill central. Not a place where animal lovers or knowledgeable animal people lasted as employees.
Sheilah

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