Would you breed a top of the line medium to a 16.1-2hh warmblood? Or would you be worried about it going over pony sized? Sire of the mare was a small, dam was a medium.
While there will always be an exception to the rule, I’m betting you would end up with a hony!
The cross between ponies and warmbloods has been done quite a lot in Europe to produce top sport ponies. As mentionned above, you obviously have the risk of producing above the pony height. As an example, Carrick 13, who jumped the european poneys championships, and was later purchased by Christian Ahlmann, is by Calato, Coster’s sire.
I think Voltair and For Pleasure also produced quite a few poneys. You would need to have a good idea of what the stallion produces if you decide to go that way, but I think that a well informed pairing with a Warmblood stallion is a great way to bring new blood into a pony breeding program.
It would be interesting if people brought us examples of their succesfull Warmblood crosses into pony breeding. Although I do not breed ponies myself, I love them and great things are being done in sport ponies breeding these days. On my part, I think Corland could be a good cross for a pony. I love the horse, he is a super producer, both in show jumping and hunter, and generally produces horses with great heads. Crossed with smaller stockier mares, he seems to produce on the smaller but refined side.
I would not remotely assume or hope that a breeding like that would result in a pony. Your best bet would be knowing the mare throws on the smaller side,and knowing the stallion usually lets the mare choose the size.
You’d increase the odds of staying a large by choosing a stallion under 16h without size in his immediate pedigree, and also known for throwing fairly small.
Obviously the mare got “big pony” genes somewhere, so how are the sizes of her 2nd generation?
Wouldn’t it also rather depend on whether the mare was from solid pony bloodlines? IOW, if she is pure Welsh, etc., you might have a better chance of getting a pony, than if she is Welsh-TB, or Welsh-GRP, etc.
From what my pony breeding friends have told me, though, if the mare is a “top of the line medium”, your chances are probably not great that you would get a pony foal when using a 16.1 WB stallion - even if the mare is pure Welsh.
How about Grandom? I learned after I bred my Arab mare to him that he was a known pony producer. So, my 15.2h mare gave me a 15 h warmblood cross with him. Her other foals were all a lot bigger (no matter who they were by). I’ve got a 2-year-old daughter of this mare by an Arab stallion that is already bigger than the Grandom mare.
NO.
First of all, the stallion is too big. If you want a cross like that, use a big mare and cross with a smaller stallion.
Isn’t it better to breed a pony stud to a warmblood mare rather than breeding a pony mare to a WB stud? Safer for the mare.
There have been studies that proved that the mare determines the size at birth (studies had draft mares bred to pony sires and pony mares bred to draft sires). All pony mares gave birth to pony sized babies and draft mares gave birth to bigger babies. After they were born, the pony mare babies grew quickly.
Breeding with warmblood stallions remains a strong tendency in Pony breeding at the present time in Europe. As any breeding decision, it is about knowing the parents and their productions when chosing your pairings.
2h is not out of what I would consider a safety range. 3h yes, though it certainly as been done, I just wouldn’t recommend it.
SA is right about the uterus determining - nearly all the time, nothing is guaranteed - the size of the foal at birth. It also means that a smaller mare with a larger stallion is likely to produce something a little smaller in size than the genetics itself would like to dictate. That also came out of those studies, with the ET draft foals out of Shetland mares not maturing quite as large as their counterparts out of draft mares.
[QUOTE=JB;8193771]
2h is not out of what I would consider a safety range. 3h yes, though it certainly as been done, I just wouldn’t recommend it.
SA is right about the uterus determining - nearly all the time, nothing is guaranteed - the size of the foal at birth. It also means that a smaller mare with a larger stallion is likely to produce something a little smaller in size than the genetics itself would like to dictate. That also came out of those studies, with the ET draft foals out of Shetland mares not maturing quite as large as their counterparts out of draft mares.[/QUOTE]
Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I recall, those studies showed that the mare would have a major impact on the foal’s size at birth, but that the foal generaly catches up the in size after birth. The pairing would not represent a major risk at foaling for the mare, but the final size of the foal would most likely be influenced by the genetics of the parents.
Thank you for the responses! My friend has a 13.1hh fancy pure welsh mare and she’s dying to breed to a WB, while I have seen quite a few stunning wb ponies out there, I just wouldn’t personally feel comfortable with the cross as I would worry about an undesirable horse. That all being said, if you are looking to attain a WB pony, would you seek out a small WB mare (15hh range) and breed to an approved pony stud? A small medium perhaps?
[QUOTE=Jhorne89;8209294]
Thank you for the responses! My friend has a 13.1hh fancy pure welsh mare and she’s dying to breed to a WB, while I have seen quite a few stunning wb ponies out there, I just wouldn’t personally feel comfortable with the cross as I would worry about an undesirable horse. That all being said, if you are looking to attain a WB pony, would you seek out a small WB mare (15hh range) and breed to an approved pony stud? A small medium perhaps?[/QUOTE]
Why not breed to a German Riding Pony? They are warmbloods in a smaller package. 
Remember, warmbloods are nothing more than crossbreds. Whether it’s a horse or pony, it’s a crossbred which means hidden height. The very best way to achieve a large pony is by using a horse mare bred to a purebred stallion; for example your suggestion of a warmblood mare around 15.1 but no more (whose height behind her has been researched) to a purebred section A Welsh stallion.
VirginiaBred, you seem to have a lot of experience in breeding poneys, much more than I do. But your statement about warmblood (here I refere to warmbloods duly recognized, registered and approuved with reputable studbooks) is not accurate. I am not going to argue wether it is a breed or not, but refering to it as no more than a simple crossbred is oversimplistic and wrong. The selection process has been a rigourous one for decades an even centuries. Most stallions and dame lines will produce certain traits with great consistency. To the OP, if you do your researches right, with reputable references, it is very possible to have a clear indication of the type of horse (including the general average height) a stallion will produce with a certain type of mares. Some WB stallions in europe, as mentionned above, already have quite a consistent production in poney breeding. Nimmerdor is one of them, Voltaire another one.
I also do not see why it would be safer to chose a WB mare with a poney stallion rather than the other way around. Mares will have at least as much of an impact on the foal than stallion. So if, as you say, there is a risk of hidden height using a stallion, the exact same thing can be said about a mare.
To the OP, WB stallions, and even mares, are used more and more frequently in many of the best poney breeding programs in Europe, with great success. As many mentionned hereabove, if one choses to go that way, it is very important to know very well the production of the stallion you use as, of course, some will produce poneys very regularly asother will not. It is a risk you take by breeding to warmblood genetic.
Is that Warmblood capital W or warmblood, lower case? 
(JK).
Seriously- what is the registry, just curious.
[QUOTE=VirginiaBred;8209582]
Remember, warmbloods are nothing more than crossbreds. Whether it’s a horse or pony, it’s a crossbred which means hidden height. [/QUOTE]
Well, yes and no.
Yes, they are technically “crossbreds”, but they have been 'cross bred" for generations to reliably produce a fairly predictable output for the most part, at least as reliable as breeding can get.
It’s not a random crapshoot to breed 2 16.2h WBs together, with pedigrees full of 16.1-16.3h horses, and produce a 16h-17h offspring. It’s REALLY unlikely you’d get an 18h’er or a 15h’er. Do they happen? Sure. It happens in TBs too
Height isn’t hidden - the beauty of registration.
These aren’t random F1 crosses from 2 parents of fairly disparate heights in their pedigrees.
n
Purebred Warmbloods hide size just as a purebred TB hides it!
I have a Candi’s Gold mare that is 15.3 on her tip toes and has a OO size foot!!! She has had 3 foals from warmbloods stallion in the 16.3 size range. Her first foal is 16.3 and a tank, second one will end up 17 hands and the yearling will easily be over 17 hands!!!
I wanted to breed her to a pony and was overly cautious when looking for a stallion. I ended up picking a Welsh stallion that was 11 hands.
The foal is now 2 and about 13.3. He should be a little under 14.1 when he finishes growing. So had I went with a bigger stallion the foal would have certainly been a honey!
So I would be very careful with what stallion you choose and be ok with the fact it might end up over 14.2!!!
There aren’t too many small WB stallions out there. I would probably go with a well bred german riding pony as they have some good warmblood line but also have to go through testing to get licensed.
