So a few questions. Does anyone have experience owning and/or breeding an APHA to a Warmblood? Looking at the possibility of breeding one of my APHA mares to a warmblood due to the fact that I can’t seem to find a stallion that really fits the bill for what I want. While it would be great to have a foal that is elligible for registration with the APHA the only reason for this would be to have papers and a record, I don’t plan on breeding the foal. This breeding would be strictly to produce a horse for competition and performance purposes for an adult (me). I don’t show in strictly APHA breed shows as my mare is more sport horse type and is really snappy over fences, she just doesn’t suit the paint “hunter” style. Plus I think many breed paint horse shows favor the horses that IMO move with an unnaturally low headset, and unnatural canters. Interested to see your input on the warmblood APHA cross and if you may have any suggestions on stallions/bloodlines of Paint, QH, and Thoroughbreds that are more suited to the type of horse I am looking for. 
Well I have an Apha stallion that is 3/4 TB and his full TB sire was favorably received by 2 wb registries, but I won’t be standing him until next year. I had a lot of family issues in the past year and he is just getting into work now and I didn’t get him to train to collect as intended last year with said family issues. I did show his sire Apha and had the interesting experience of getting placed first and last in the same class at a two judge show! The first from a hunter judge that knew TBs, the last from the Western class judge. He has 4 foals on the ground, 1 out of a stock horse mare and 3 wb cross foals. Prior to that I had bred my Paint mares to WB stallions for either main book papers with the AWR or lower book papers / certificate of pedigree with Old/ Isr or RPSI. I had a good experience with RPSI, two bad experiences with Oldenburg/ISR. Mixing breeds is a bit of a crapshoot so stick to like types. Since Paints cross well with tbs look for a wb with a fair amount of tb in him… Not a heavier older style WB which might get really clunky if the stock type in your horse appears from the woodpile.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the RPSI and ISR that is really important to me that the experience people have are positive. Also that sounds exactly like the type of experiences I’ve had with my mare when it came to being judged by multiple judges, it’s so interesting how people view a horse depending on their personal preferences and backgrounds :yes:. When you bred your paint mares to warmbloods which stallions did you use? And do you have any photos you could post of the offspring?
Also, I am most likely going to be holding off the breeding until next spring as I want to finish out this show season with my mare so I may be interested in hearing some more information about your stallion. Oh how I dream that one day there will be a tall sporty homozgyous tobi APHA standing to the public. My mare does well in hunter but really excels in dressage, jumping and eventing. She has the smarts, thinking, and easy going personality of the paint breeed and has the stamina and heart of a thoroughbred. Not to mention she is probably the cleanest most well mannered horse I’ve ever encountered in my life. She is just an outstanding mare, very versatile, and is very hardy/sound. She has foaled before. She was bred to western stock type paint stallions heights ranging 15 hands to 15.3 and regardless of those crosses produced horses that ended up topping out no smaller than 15.3 and although they were initially trained in western disciplines ultimately ended up becoming bored and were sold and turned into very successful hunters, jumpers, and even fox-hunters :rolleyes:. All of this surprised me because she comes from all Paint and QH lines and is only about 15.1. Nonetheless I am pretty impressed with what she produced out of those stallions so I can only imagine what would come of a breeding with a stallion better suited to her build and to the English disciplines. Improvements I’d like to make on her; a slightly more refined head, a bit thicker in the cannons, and additional height. She is a gorgeous mover, super comfortable, and really neat and careful over fences not to mention she will jump anything I put in front of her. For a little paint mare she sure has no problem jumping 4’ with me on top and even higher when she was free lunged as a 7 year old. 
If anyone knows of any stallions that come to mind please feel free to post some info on them!
Not “exactly” considered a WB, but we bred our 1/2 TB, Registered, Irish Sport Horse stallion to an APHA (WB type mare) paint mare and got two fantastic sport horse type pinto babies. Sold one as a yearling for big $$ and am keeping the other to breed to our TB stallion. Depending on the individuals…I think APHA/WB would make a nice horse.
I have seen many stock horse X warmblood crosses and I can’t recommend it. Most of the ones I have seen have inherited some characteristics from each type that didn’t mix well. They are usually such divergent types that the predictability if what you get is very low. You often don’t get a blend of the two: you get Frankenhorse.
I have known several with teeny Q.H. Underpinnings amd big, stiff, bulky bodies. Strangely, I have also known several with a wicked buck/spook. Not one of the ones I have known were better than average. Most were not really suitable to more than a rather low level of performance in hunter/jumper, eventing or dressage.
If your mare threw a more stock type (which is possible, because that lineage is back there in her gene pool), and the Warmblood sire threw a throwback to a heavier type…you’d get quite a mess.
I just don’t think it’s worth monkeying around with this type of random cross. If this was a great idea, then breeders with decades of experience, who have researched Sporthorse bloodlines would be doing it. And for the most part they are not (there is a breeder who has injected APHA in warmblood lines for color…but the paint is now WAY back in the bloodlines and i dont think anymore paint was ever introduced after the original one that made the spots happen? This is a Sporthorse breeder, so I’d assume that if they thought the paint was going to improve anything more than the spots, they would have added some back into the line). Im sorry to be be a downer, but I think it’s one of those things that sounds good on paper, but isn’t a good idea at all. The world has enough mediocre horses in it right now.
Not all Qh are quiet! Hubby plays polo and got 2 quarter horses as prospects/ reining bred . Super athletic and not a brain cell between em…, dangerous bolters the both of em! Breeding stock horses to WBs is like crossing Arabs with WBs : it can work with the right type , but a lot of what was used wasn’t the right type. There is truth that something from back in the wood pile will crop up…Which is why you stick to lighter types. This is more of a problem when there are halter horses involved in the pedigree… Not so much with working cow / reining horses . Of course there were those brainless twits we had. Sure were pretty though !for the OP: my best paint crosses came from furioso (tb) lines or had Anglo
Arab like Inschsllah. Best foals wre by Special Memories and For The Future. There are also sport TBs that will ship semen . If they file appropriate forms the kid can still get Apha papers.
Took a qh/wb colt to RPSI inspections this fall, he was site champion. I think you can do some amazing crosses! That said there are some great color and/or color producing TB stallions who would give you a stellar sporthorse that would also be eligible for APHA registration and breed shows.
Do you have pictures of your mare?
Paint stallion and WB mare (Hanno/TB x) : colt is only a few hours old here so a bit down in his pasterns yet…but definitely not downhill built. More current horses. Pics of older ones are not on this computer.
Winchester:few hours old
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/camohn03/media/DSCN6154_zps4dbec015.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9
and three days
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/camohn03/media/DSCN6149_zpsfafe1d43.jpg.html?sort=3&o=12
Walter: full brother to Winchester
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/camohn03/media/3b22d454.jpg.html?sort=3&o=153
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/camohn03/media/407d855b.jpg.html?sort=3&o=41
Santa Callista: Paint cross mare by WB stallion Santa Cruz
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/camohn03/media/Santa_Callista_3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=418
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/camohn03/media/a7ef8992.jpg.html?sort=3&o=53
Casper: Yearling pic (never the best time!). Paint stallion, Hanno/TB cross mare. He is maximum overo/ all white. He is not small…is just shy of 15H on his 12 month birthday here. His neck is set on a little low, but he is a very good mover. Has a big sweeping trot with suspension when he gets rolling. He is just shuffling along on a nice day here…but only current pic I have of him.
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/camohn03/media/casperyearling_zpsc2943a62.jpg.html
Chessie (Paint sire, Hungarian WB dam) at 2, she is now a jumper in KY
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/camohn03/ChessieRight2407Reduced.jpg
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/camohn03/media/ChessieTrot2407Reudced.jpg.html?sort=3&o=402
We had a lovely APHA mare that was bred to Meisterwind (TK) and produced two very nice Pinto colts. Both were super easy to start, had GREAT brains, sold well and easily and both are very competitive lower level eventers. They both have the talent to go much higher than their AA owner wants to go.
The biggest advantage we have seen with the stock horse crosses is the BRAIN. They are quieter and while still having very good movement they are just easier to sit, for the majority of our clientele.
NoDQhere that’s precisely what I see being an advantage with this mare not only adding brain but also can contribute to a nice floaty trot. Not only that but she’s pretty beautifully colored.
I most definitely agree about the risks of producing an old type warmblood and producing a frankenhorse. Not sure how the draft breeders make it work with all the crosses they do. I have looked a lot into the colored tbs. I have to stay away from frame as my mare carries that as well as tobi. Ive ridden and interacted with some of my mares full siblings as well as her mother, father and grandsire all of them are great movers, fast learners and were still riding and showing well into their twenties. Her lines don’t have halter horse backgrounds they are all reiners, racers, and pleasure horses. Most of the tb stallions I’ve been interested in were either unproven producers, or I didn’t much care for their build or movement. I like the suggestions of TK, and Irish sport horse. And hoof_beats I don’t have any conformation shots and have no way to get them anytime soon (just had surgery) I do have pictures of her under saddle and over fences etc if any of you would like me to post those.
To my knowledge Racey Remarque family ( from Pesty Axe) and Blue Eyed Streaker are the 2 frame carrying families in TBs .
About 7 years ago at Rpsi an appendix qh mare was named reserve champion. She was book II due to pedigree, but was a top scoring mare. It doesn’t happen often to be sure!was an Indian Artifacts mare if I recall right… So not your typical stock horse
I’m glad you brought this up. I have a nice 16.1H APHA mare. She is bigger boned than my tb’s, and she has a nice uphill build. I was considering breeding her to a warmblood but I am going to stick to breeding her to a tb this year, I want to see what she throws first. She is 1/2 tb herself.
I don’t want to breed her to anything with a bigger build. I prefer a lighter tb style horse. I am not a fan of stock horses in general, I don’t usually find them put together as well as this mare. Maybe next year I will cross her on a lighter type warmblood if I like the foal from the tb cross. She is a nice mover, and the only thing I would want to improve on is the lack of suspension in her gaits.
SouthernYankee has a beautiful filly by Larks Oneforthemoney out of a Trakehner mare. While the sire is a AQHA, not APHA, its still a stock horse X WB cross.
Hopefully she will see this post.
Derby Lyn Farms- That’s a good idea to do the thoroughbred breeding first and then the warmblood, I’m guessing this is her first foal? I would say I’d do the same but this is the last time I plan to breed my mare, that is if she has a successful healthy foaling. She is uphill built too, which seems to be hard to find in the paint and quarter horses, and it’s a quality that I love. If only she was as tall as your mare I would be completely satisfied! Have you decided which tb stallion you are going to breed your mare to this year?
bugsunskeeter I actually looked at Larks Oneforthemoney but in some pictures he looks like he has nice confo and in others he looks slightly downhill, I could be wrong since I have not seen him in person but the uphill aspect of my mare isn’t something I want to mess with 
[QUOTE=paintedblibb;7555218]
bugsunskeeter I actually looked at Larks Oneforthemoney but in some pictures he looks like he has nice confo and in others he looks slightly downhill, I could be wrong since I have not seen him in person but the uphill aspect of my mare isn’t something I want to mess with :)[/QUOTE]
I worked with him, which was why I recommended by friend breed her mare to him. He is with Carol Harris now in FL, but I don’t know if he is standing to the public. I don’t remember him being downhill.
Every time these threads come up I find myself wondering why basically “any old TB” mare can be Approved by several WB registries but “stock horses” are frowned upon. Yes, I have heard the same old arguments over and over again so we don’t need to repeat them again, but… Many “stock horse” lines are bred to be “riding horses” while most TB lines are bred for one thing, to run fast, with no regard to soundness, rideability or temperament. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
We have bred primarily WBs for the last 20 + years and they have done well for us. But every single stock horse cross (Paint, QH or Appy) we have produced has been a super nice horse. And they have all been EASY, while still having a lot of talent. Olympic level, probably not, but neither are the majority of WBs, regardless of where they come form.
[QUOTE=paintedblibb;7555218]
Derby Lyn Farms- That’s a good idea to do the thoroughbred breeding first and then the warmblood, I’m guessing this is her first foal? I would say I’d do the same but this is the last time I plan to breed my mare, that is if she has a successful healthy foaling. She is uphill built too, which seems to be hard to find in the paint and quarter horses, and it’s a quality that I love. If only she was as tall as your mare I would be completely satisfied! Have you decided which tb stallion you are going to breed your mare to this year?
bugsunskeeter I actually looked at Larks Oneforthemoney but in some pictures he looks like he has nice confo and in others he looks slightly downhill, I could be wrong since I have not seen him in person but the uphill aspect of my mare isn’t something I want to mess with :)[/QUOTE]
I think my mare has been bred before. All I can find is on allbreedpedigree.com is that she has a 2007 foal. I don’t know what any of her foals look like.
I will be breeding her to my stallion this year. I had looked at others but decided to just use my stallion because he always adds a better trot onto the foals. I was hoping for a bay tobiano, my stallion is buckskin and the mare is chestnut. But that is just wishful thinking. I think I will be happy with the outcome. This will be the test breeding. If she doesn’t produce what I was hoping then my plans for her will change. Other QH crosses with my TB stallion have turned out really well. I bred a mare with a short choppy trot and straight shoulder. The foal came out with an awesome shoulder and huge trot.
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;7555356]
Every time these threads come up I find myself wondering why basically “any old TB” mare can be Approved by several WB registries but “stock horses” are frowned upon. Yes, I have heard the same old arguments over and over again so we don’t need to repeat them again, but… Many “stock horse” lines are bred to be “riding horses” while most TB lines are bred for one thing, to run fast, with no regard to soundness, rideability or temperament. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
We have bred primarily WBs for the last 20 + years and they have done well for us. But every single stock horse cross (Paint, QH or Appy) we have produced has been a super nice horse. And they have all been EASY, while still having a lot of talent. Olympic level, probably not, but neither are the majority of WBs, regardless of where they come form.[/QUOTE]
But how they are ridden is in fact very different. On occasion a short strided TB can move those short steps real fast successfully, but on the whole it does not work real well for the TB in a race. To be a good race horse he needs to be able to reach well under himself behind and reach forward from the shoulder. Stock horses (race types aside, which are infused with quite a bit of TB on the whole…mostly through Top Deck and Three Bars) are built to meander slowly and all day across the range. They have a low, efficient movement meant to be comfortable sitting on all day, not a big swinging gait from the shoulder. They are often built on the downhill, which works just fine for planting on their front end and hauling back on a cow . It won’t lift you over a fence very well. It is the very opposite of the suspension in a dressage horse. Even the hunter classes in AQHA/APHA shows are not at all the same thing as in an open show. The AQHA has actually been making an effort to change this, and bringing in outside hunter judges to train their AQHA hunter judges, so all are judged to the same standard. The APHA, well not so much. There are proper hunter moving Paints out there. And at the APHA shows they tend to fare poorly, being marked down as “too forward”. Thus the demise of the brief fad in the APHA of the dual registered TB/APHA for colored TBs. Heck they have even banned any new full TB lines from being introduced with the One Paint Parent rule. That same horse can go to an A hunter show an win. Seen it multiple times. When I showed my APHA dual registered TB at an APHA show he placed first and last in the SAME class in a two judge show! We only got the first because that one judge actually “knew” TBs . Most APHA judges do not. At the same show in the HUS class there was only one “properly” moving horse in the class. Nice freedom of movement. The rest of them looked like a western pleasure horse with an English saddle plopped on it. Imagine my surprise when that one correct horse placed LAST!! This wasn’t a one show fluke…have seen it often. So…if the OP has a forward moving horse she is right…she won’t fare well at the Paint shows. I love my Paints and there are proper ones out there to choose to cross with WBs. But there are many of them that are very wrong too. Not any stock horse will do by a long shot. And I too have seen a lot of the bad ones (WB / stock crosses).
