Breeding eventing horses - WB or TB?

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7228455]
Both Mark Todd and Phillip Dutton have gone almost exclusively to WBs. Todd’s horse almost didn’t get around the Olympic course; by the end it looked totally exhausted.[/QUOTE]

Don’t believe this is true. Philip and Evie are friends, his barn is “around the block” from us. He has some full TBs that hopefully are on the up and coming list. Philip will look at anything that has potential, it’s the horse in front of you and between your legs not its parents. We only do TBs start most in racing after that pretty much anything that will suite them. I get calls from the “names” in the neighborhood and referrals asking if we have anything to look at, try. Leased a nice one that has already shown potential to a client of Molly Rosin who I don’t know but seems very nice and has a very good facility. Hopefully he will make some “noise” next year.

[gumtree]

Don’t mean to high jack this thread but it seems like a good place to mention this TB mare. The client has decided to get out of racehorse breeding and asked me see if I can find a home for her. She’s free and comes with her JC papers.
High Iron Lass http://www.pedigreequery.com/high+iron+lass has been with us for around 5 years. She gets very good foals, good bone, all have been well made and correct, a lot of hip. We have a weanling, yearling colt, 3 and 4 year old fillies from her here at the this time. If anyone is interested just get on to me to discuss. She is an attractive chestnut, easy keeper, nice to work around, gets in foal easily, LC, and congenial with others. This is a free mare and I am willing to send a couple of pictures. I would prefer working with people who live in driving distance and or have a representative in the area to look at her. I just don’t have the time to make video’s and tons of pictures for a free horse. Please, serious inquiries only.

[vineyridge]

Maybe it’s just a part of a cycle, but the horses that PD has been riding for the past two or three years have all been WBs. I don’t recall him on a full TB at the 3* level for several years.

I just went to the FEI database and looked. He’s ridden eleven different horses in FEI events this year. One, Mansfield Park, is a TB. Most are Irish bred ISHs.

[QUOTE=gumtree;7229568]
Don’t believe this is true. Philip and Evie are friends, his barn is “around the block” from us. He has some full TBs that hopefully are on the up and coming list. Philip will look at anything that has potential, it’s the horse in front of you and between your legs not its parents. We only do TBs start most in racing after that pretty much anything that will suite them. I get calls from the “names” in the neighborhood and referrals asking if we have anything to look at, try. Leased a nice one that has already shown potential to a client of Molly Rosin who I don’t know but seems very nice and has a very good facility. Hopefully he will make some “noise” next year.[/QUOTE]

In 2013 Mark Todd has ridden one Irish TB and one British one out of 13. He has a NZ horse that used to be ridden by Heelan Tomkins name Up N Go, but there is no breeding information on him in the FEI database, except that his sire is named Gocorp, His name is actually Go Corp and the NZ studbook has many foals by him. There are quite a few 2003, so Up N Go may be full TB or he may be a sportbred mix. Go Corp definitely stood for sport, since I’ve found a Connemara mix by him. All the rest of Todd’s string are Warmbloods, most from Germany.

[omare]

Love seeing the broad brush in a sport horse mare pedigree. What a tough hard knocking horse he was.

[vineyridge]

How would this be for a project on event breeding? Take the top 100 event riders in the world per the FEI, get their strings of horses, and determine the breeding of the horses. Then cross correlate the pedigrees.

[TKR]

Viney, that sounds like your sort of project! Very revealing, I’m sure. I sent you an email regarding a match up I wanted your opinion on – did you get it?
PennyG

[dianehalpin]

If you look at the pedigrees of the eventing youngsters in the upcoming GoresbridgeGoForGold eventing horse sale in Ireland, Master Imp and Mr. Prospector, as well as other TBs, some U.S.-bred, come up with regularity, as well as the Hol. Cavalier Royale, and the great Irish stallions Cruising, King of Diamonds, etc… The young horses are stunning and well-presented with videos, photos, good info., and pedigrees for each. I expect the sale will bring very good prices.

Diane Halpin/Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=Mukluk;7228320]
I have a full TB mare that I hope to breed to a “heavy on the TB” warmblood for my next eventer. I’d be thrilled with a 3/4 TB. My trainer advised against breeding her to a full TB because should I ever have to sell, I would get more for a “WB.” I just love my TB though a little warmblood in there might get me something a little stouter with better feet (my girl needs 4 shoes- would love to have a horse who could go for less in the shoe department).[/QUOTE]
http://irishdraught.com/horses/roster.php?sunid=23

I haven’t checked lately but I believe the Irish stud book is still on top for eventing though they do use continental blood. Please DON’T call an Irish Draught a WB

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=dianehalpin;7231589]
If you look at the pedigrees of the eventing youngsters in the upcoming GoresbridgeGoForGold eventing horse sale in Ireland, Master Imp and Mr. Prospector, as well as other TBs, some U.S.-bred, come up with regularity, as well as the Hol. Cavalier Royale, and the great Irish stallions Cruising, King of Diamonds, etc… The young horses are stunning and well-presented with videos, photos, good info., and pedigrees for each. I expect the sale will bring very good prices.

Diane Halpin/Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook[/QUOTE]
The Traditional Irish Horse Association recently had a sale. Here is the catalog with videos. They are Irish Draught/TB’s though Connemara would also be allowed.
http://www.traditionalirishhorse.com/showandgo/videos/

[Dressagelvr]

As a dressage rider, WBs are my horse of choice, but if I were an event rider, I’d ride a TB every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[omare]

Just wondering whether the push for more and more competitive dressage scores puts riders more at risk going x-country in that folks try to use a more dressage talented and perhaps less jumping savy/talented/staminia-bred horse.

[Jealoushe]

Mark Todd has never been a particular breed, let alone TB advocate. His best horse was a complete Heinz 57 including Appaloosa. He has had some Thoroughbreds of course, but breed doesn’t matter to Toddy, talent does!

[Willesdon]

The Irish Sports Horse Register has several approved TB stallions. Don’t know about AI as I don’t have the book here

[Pipkin]

Ooor Irish? And there were a good few ex racers at badminton this year.

I think a good mix. A light athletic warmblood rather than the larger dressage types.

[TwinGates]

[QUOTE=Tradewind;7227059]

I have some lovely warmblood mares that I would love to breed to high quality TB stallions to create an all around athlete, yet there are so few that are approved into the warmblood registries (Hanoverian, Holsteiner) that I use. I have ended up breeding for more dressage types and hoping that I would get something that could event as a by-product, due to the limited availability of TB stallions (Coconut Grove is the only one I’ve used thus far). It would be nice to see these registries acknowledge eventing as a discipline to breed for and encourage approval of high quality sport-oriented TB stallions. It’s great that the ATA has recently approved several TB stallions (Sea Accounts, Sea Lion, plus Virginian Sky who is mostly TB); this is good news for breeders of event horses. Hopefully the others will soon follow suit.[/QUOTE]

Tradewind, last month on recommendation of the registration committee (accompanied by an excellent report) the ATA Board of Trustees posthumously approved (unanimously) Coconut Grove xx. This was announced in the Annual Membership meeting where it was loudly applauded by members. The TKs always have - and always will - love a good TB!

IMO we’ve missed a few opportunities (actually, Coconut Grove xx was one - I strongly advocated for him 3yrs ago when the ATA mtg was in TX but hadn’t prepared a report for board review; luckily the registration committee remedied the situation this year!). Hopefully we will see other good TB stallions join the ATA Approved stallion list soon.

[fire_911medic]

If you wanted to stick tb a strong sound line that you barely hear of anymore but if you can find that is good is loyal pal. Horse ran 90 times went on to a successful second career and stayed sound. Can’t argue with that. If I still evented I would be trying to find one that way.

[grayarabpony]

What was his second career? I thought he was retired after racing.

[vineyridge]

Loyal Pal was one of Denny Emerson’s eventing stallions. He died only a few years ago. Maggie Sjosberg (?), a jumper breeder in Georgia, stands a very interesting Loyal Pal TB son named Loyal Tendencies. IIRC, he’s Loyal Pal on top with Night Lark on the bottom. His second dam is Night Spree, who was a USET jumper. Damsire line is to Never Bend through Triple Bend.

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7233671]
What was his second career? I thought he was retired after racing.[/QUOTE]

[_Tradewind]

[QUOTE=TwinGates;7233534]
Tradewind, last month on recommendation of the registration committee (accompanied by an excellent report) the ATA Board of Trustees posthumously approved (unanimously) Coconut Grove xx. This was announced in the Annual Membership meeting where it was loudly applauded by members. The TKs always have - and always will - love a good TB!

IMO we’ve missed a few opportunities (actually, Coconut Grove xx was one - I strongly advocated for him 3yrs ago when the ATA mtg was in TX but hadn’t prepared a report for board review; luckily the registration committee remedied the situation this year!). Hopefully we will see other good TB stallions join the ATA Approved stallion list soon.[/QUOTE]

This is great news! We had been told that the committee was going to confer on whether he should be accepted; we’ve been waiting on the decision in the hopes that this would allow us full registration of our CG colt. We took our CG colt, Arkangel, to the King’s Windy Fields’ inspection this year with his dam (Arista GS, by Heling) but until now he has only been eligible for Appendix registration. Presumably this now means he is eligible for full ATA registration? It’s great to see the ATA taking steps to approve more quality TB stallions!

[fire_911medic]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7233737]
Loyal Pal was one of Denny Emerson’s eventing stallions. He died only a few years ago. Maggie Sjosberg (?), a jumper breeder in Georgia, stands a very interesting Loyal Pal TB son named Loyal Tendencies. IIRC, he’s Loyal Pal on top with Night Lark on the bottom. His second dam is Night Spree, who was a USET jumper. Damsire line is to Never Bend through Triple Bend.[/QUOTE]
That would be a nice cross. be interested in looking at that stallion!