Breeding suggestion OTTB mare

16.3hh (well a hair under) OTTB mare. She is Out of A Marine Brass mare and by Ameri Valley. Thinking of a QH or Warmblood, not looking for something with a lot of TB. She is a smidge on the hot side. Let me clear something up… I am not looking to breed for a specific Discipline… Because! I want something that is going to be kind, athletic, on the quieter side with good conformation. You can breed a horse to be a jumper all day long but that does not mean they are going to be an amazing jumper. Not wanting to spend a small fortune on a stud fee does not make me a terrible person. My same point is still valid, you can spend 2k on a stud fee and still get a flop.

Lastley please stop PMing me with nasty mean/hateful messages. Wow! What an introduction to COTH, sure made me feel welcome.
Thanks!!

What is your goal for the foal? In other words, what are you breeding for? Hard to offer suggestions without more information. Do you have a link to his picture and your mare’s? QH can vary wildly in type…

I’ve seen nice appendix QH and ones that look like they were put together by a committee. Always a risk if they are very different in type. Does he have a lot of TB blood?

The stud fee is the least expensive part of breeding, so trying to spend less money on the stud fee is not a great way to start.

The real question is what you are breeding for. I will say that IMO Ameri Valay is one heck of a good TB line for sport horses. His sire Carnivalay was one of the few TB lines noted for jumps racers in the past twenty or so years. They both seem to have the sabino gene. It’s also a good blue collar (tough) line.

http://sporthorse-data.com/d?z=nO2mjB&d=Amerivalay&x=10&y=16

She showed Hunters and Jumpers up to 3’6 locally and rated. Not breeding for a specific discipline, I am aware that the stud fee is the least expensive thing in breeding, I am also aware that plenty of NICE AF studs have stud fees for around $500. This mare is very athletic, sweet, and tough as nails. I will work on posting photos when I am at a computer.

Rude or unhelpful comments will be removed.

Thanks!!

http://http://s545.photobucket.com/user/MaddieGraham4945/Mobile%20Uploads/story

You should be able to just google the stud.

[QUOTE=DespicableM3H;8665979]

Rude or unhelpful comments will be removed.

Thanks!![/QUOTE]

Good luck with that, this isn’t facebook. You can not remove anything except your own posts.

Ok then…

If you are not breeding for a specific discipline, IMHO, don’t breed… The world doesn’t need more “master-of-none” horses… Even if your mare has a nice pedigree.

I tried Googling the stud and couldn’t find much about him.

I guess I’m still not clear on what your goal for the foal is? Do you hope to breed a 3’6" jumper then? If she showed 3’6" I would want to breed her to a hunter or jumper, depending on what her gaits and jump are like. Either a WB or a TB. Unless you show QH’s. Or maybe he does 4’ or even GP, I have no idea! Or is it a temperment thing? Is that why you want a stock breed? Here is an appaloosa who jumps http://www.rivervalefarm.com.

She sounds like a nice mare, but until you can give more info, I don’t think you will get any specific advice. I don’t think anyone is trying to be mean. I doubt many on a sporthorse (and by default then, largely TB or warmblood) forum are familiar with the stud. Maybe you can provide more info? Understand that your first post did read like your main criteria was a cheap stud fee, and that’s what people responded to.

I know you said you wanted live cover, but that’s only common with TBs these days. A live cover requirement will limit you to your local area or nearby unless you are willing to pay far more than the stud fee to ship the mare.

Jackaroo, William Micklem’s boy, is available frozen for $500 a pop.
If you’re wanting to do hunters, though, Jackaroo is probably not for you. He’s almost 95% TB, and his full siblings are not the easiest of horses–they are pro 4* eventers.

[QUOTE=beowulf;8666666]
If you are not breeding for a specific discipline, IMHO, don’t breed… The world doesn’t need more “master-of-none” horses… Even if your mare has a nice pedigree.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

It would make more logical sense to just go shop for a baby.

I agree that you are better off buying than breeding. Selecting a stallion based on price is a very bad idea.

[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8666994]
Selecting a stallion based on price is a very bad idea.[/QUOTE]

I do not think based on the data presented thus far there seems to be any reason to recommend breeding this mare. But I do want to point out; to some degree price has to factor into picking a stud unless you have unlmited funds. Obviously not as the only determining factor, but if you have budget x, you are going to be selecting, hopefully, the best option within your budget. Is the issue you take with this particular price point?

Well if you want livr cover you are probably know more about what stallions are available in your area than anyone on this board.

If you are willing to consider AI there any many nice stallions in the $500 range.

Would be helpful to know if you want an open hunter, breed show hunter, a jumper, eventer, etc?

There’s just too many stallions to list without knowing what you’re breeding goal is.

I totally get shopping for a a stud fee on a budget. I found a stallion locally that has the bloodline I wanted but couldn’t afford (numerous Olympic medals in dressage and jumping). He was injured prior to his stallion test so never approved, but he had what I wanted and for just $800 which included the booking fee. Otherwise I was looking at $2-3k for a stud fee and I just couldn’t do it.

Well if you want livr cover you are probably know more about what stallions are available in your area than anyone on this board.

If you are willing to consider AI there any many nice stallions in the $500 range.

Would be helpful to know if you want an open hunter, breed show hunter, a jumper, eventer, etc?

There’s just too many stallions to list without knowing what you’re breeding goal is.

I totally get shopping for a a stud fee on a budget. I found a stallion locally that has the bloodline I wanted but couldn’t afford (numerous Olympic medals in dressage and jumping). He was injured prior to his stallion test so never approved, but he had what I wanted and for just $800 which included the booking fee. Otherwise I was looking at $2-3k for a stud fee and I just couldn’t do it.

[QUOTE=beowulf;8666666]
If you are not breeding for a specific discipline, IMHO, don’t breed… The world doesn’t need more “master-of-none” horses… Even if your mare has a nice pedigree.[/QUOTE]
This.
Sounds like you have a nice mare and a cheap stud horse and can breed on the cheap. When I first started in breeding I had a nice TB mare, the wife is a vet, and access to cheap stud fees and plenty of property. So I did the same thing. It did work out but I would not do it again knowing what I know now.

Who is distributing jackaroo in n. America?

I think you are wise to keep a lid on spending. Throwing money at horses does not EVER guarantee ANYTHING. Live cover tends to be cheaper, and has great success. I don’t play the AI game either. But it will limit your selection to a more local stallion, which is fine, there are nice horses everywhere, if you have the experience to be able to identify one when you see it.

But I do agree that you need to narrow down your goals in terms of performance. Whichever breed or individual you choose as a stallion must be on point for what you are looking to produce, whatever that is. Not just “whatever”. If your mare has competitively jumped well, and has many positive aspects as a potential mother, look for a stallion that has also done this sort of work and will also aide her flaws (everyone has flaws). If she is a bit sensitive for your liking, look for a stallion that produces a calm trend in his offspring. You need to see and interview his offspring to be able to ascertain this. Don’t just take someone’s word for it. Since so many of the non TB stallions these days are NOT available live cover, you may indeed be looking for a TB stallion who is well known for producing a quiet disposition, if you are wishing to stay away from the AI game. That’s OK, there are TB stallions out there who will fill this bill. QH stallions may not have jumped, or may be more suited to western performance. WB stallions tend to be strictily AI these days, unless you can find one locally who is not. Personally, I would NEVER breed to any stallion who can not or does not live cover a mare. A stallion that appeals to me is one who has the disposition and trainability to both live cover AND compete and be sane doing both, both at the same time is best. A stallion who does not savage his mares, because he is a nice guy, not a creep. A stallion who is safe from injury while breeding his mares because he is a nice horse who the mares actually LIKE. Live cover proves that. AI does not. Stay and watch the sexual performance to see what sort of stallion he really is. Romantic and gentle with his mares, or a rapist? I don’t want to be raising and training the offspring of a nasty stallion who can not live cover because he is a horrible beast. Many people criticize the PMU industry for their breeding decisions, BUT, all their stallions are/were horses who were good with their mares, not savage, not crazy, with good fertility. As were their mares, fertile mares who caught and carried their foals without veterinary work or drugs, foaled alone, and successfully raised their foals. Mares who did not require flushing and infusing, any uterine infections were expected to clear up on their own- and they did just that. The resulting horses produced tended to be stoic in nature, sensible, easy to work with, fertile and pleasant natured. I raised quite a few myself, and was also told this by one of our local veterinarians, who had made this observation in his veterinary travels. Selective breeding for fertility, and disposition, with a solid and emotionless culling process for those who did not make the grade. Mean stallions, mares who did not catch pregnant or hold pregnancy, or were difficult to handle were sold for meat. The performance producing sport industry could take a few lessons from this industry.

AI in other species has proven that males and females who should not be breeding due to reproductive or social skill deficiencies have resulted in offspring who similarly can not reproduce without veterinary help. Is this really where we want to go with horses? Like it is with some breeds of dogs now? And cats? Who can not breed or give birth without a veterinarian involved? Does it need to cost $10,000 in vet fees to get your mare in foal? Or should we be selecting stallions AND mares who can make a baby by putting them together in a field for a month or so, and no outside help needed? I vote for the second option. It’s lovely to breed to the current highly marketed superstar, with unlimited cash to do so. But it does not guarantee that the offspring will be what you are hoping for. In many cases, it does not. I raced one of my horses against a son of Storm Cat who could not break his maiden (stud fee was only $250,000 when they bred to him, it went to $500,000 later). The more veterinary intervention that is practiced in the breeding industry, the worse the situation becomes. A mare or a stallion may be a superstar in competition, but if he/she can not reproduce successfully, they are NOT breeding stock- Rachael Alexandra. Throwing money at the breeding game does not help with getting a winner. Pinching pennies doesn’t help either, but spending wisely can.

So if you wish to breed your mare, you are free to do so. It’s a free country, you can choose whatever stallion you wish, keep your costs in line with what you can afford, and explore the theories of breeding, raising and training horses that interest you. How you do with this will be judged, by you and others, at some time in the future. You will learn in the process, and make different choices as you learn. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy the process.

You will always get negative comments here, and views that you do not agree with, or were looking for. Welcome to the internet, an CoTH in particular.

[QUOTE=Lingkra;8667960]
Who is distributing jackaroo in n. America?[/QUOTE]

I believe it is something called or similar to Shelbourne Farms. There is a regular ad on Eventing Nation’s home page on the right.