Breeding the two year old filly?

[Hocus_Focus]

Is this common practice or very rare? How do you feel about it personally? Does it affect the growth of the “filly dam” herself? Or are decisions made on an “individual case” basis? …f the filly is mature for her age, it’s considered ok… what are your opinions on this practice? Risks?
This is not meant to be a criticism… only curiosity…what do others think about this? or is it more common practice than I am aware of?

As the dam herself continues to grow during this period, what kind of feed ration would you use to balance the growth of the mare and the growth of the unborn foal?

[dressageendeavors]

[QUOTE=Hocus Focus;7429284]
Is this common practice or very rare? How do you feel about it personally? Does it affect the growth of the “filly dam” herself? Or are decisions made on an “individual case” basis? …f the filly is mature for her age, it’s considered ok… what are your opinions on this practice? Risks?
This is not meant to be a criticism… only curiosity…what do others think about this? or is it more common practice than I am aware of?

As the dam herself continues to grow during this period, what kind of feed ration would you use to balance the growth of the mare and not be too[/QUOTE]

I work for a breeder, and after speaking with her, she advised proper attention to protein first and foremost. Size of the stallion would also be a concern. Choosing a large stallion would be ill-advised. It may stunt the mare’s growth to a degree. The additional weight of a foal on a young spine could be detrimental. Also once the foal is born and the mare is nursing it, it’s a big caloric commitment on the part of the mare. The youngest she has bred a mare is 3 years old.

[Laurierace]

I don’t know any breeder who would breed a two year old filly on purpose.

[tuckawayfarm]

I routinely breed my three year olds, but would never breed a two year old. I see a huge difference in both physical and mental maturity. I can’t see any advantage in pushing the envelope.

Good nutrition is key when breeding three year olds, so I would think it is even more important earlier. Just something I would never personally consider doing.

[Derby_Lyn_Farms]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;7429314]
I don’t know any breeder who would breed a two year old filly on purpose.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you don’t know them personally but I am sure you know of them I would never do it. Let the poor fillies grow up a bit. I keep seeing promises of these particular horses going to the track to become racing stars, yet colts and fillies always end up in the shed by the time they are 2.

[Hocus_Focus]

I know of one breeder who bred two mares at two and each delivered healthy foals. Not going to name names as that is not what this is about, however I have had suspicions that this was definitely pushing the envelope. Later both of those mares were put in training and have been successful in the show ring as hunters, so in that one case, perhaps luck was on their side as it didn’t seem to affect their capabilites later on. I have also heard of others who have done it with fillies who were mature for their ages. I just wanted to know what others felt.

I agree it is very soon…too soon in fact… but since I came across it, wanted to ask.

[Hocus_Focus]

I know of one breeder who bred two mares at two and each delivered healthy foals. Not going to name names as that is not what this is about, however I have had suspicions that this was definitely pushing the envelope. Later both of those mares were put in training and have been successful in the show ring as hunters, so in that one case, perhaps luck was on their side as it didn’t seem to affect their capabilites later on. I have also heard of others who have done it with fillies who were mature for their ages. I just wanted to know what others felt.

I agree it is very soon…too soon in fact… but since I came across it, wanted to ask.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=Derby Lyn Farms;7429382]
Maybe you don’t know them personally but I am sure you know of them I would never do it. Let the poor fillies grow up a bit. I keep seeing promises of these particular horses going to the track to become racing stars, yet colts and fillies always end up in the shed by the time they are 2.[/QUOTE]

They definitely would not breed a TB at two unless they had already broke them down.

[Manni01]

Paul Schockemoehle does it on a pretty regular basis…

[Jsalem]

A very timely thread- Just last Sunday we got the shock of our lives when the 3 year old filly we had bought last fall as company for a weanling- delivered a healthy foal. Mare is a nicely bred 13 hand or so pony who had lost weight. We had upped her grain (fortunately we had put her on a broodmare/foal feed) and were planning to run a fecal on Monday because we though maybe she was wormy! The kids were all proud because they had tacked her up on Saturday and sat on her. Only complaint was she didn’t want to trot! Poor baby!

I called the breeder I had bought her from first thing. I said, “I’m so sorry to call you so early on Sunday morning but I just had to thank you for the free gift with purchase.” Breeder just groaned and said, I got one too! She knew exactly who the culprit was- fortunately a well bred 2 year old that was due to be gelded.

So we have an absolutely beautiful palomino foal!

[Clayfields]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;7429314]
I don’t know any breeder who would breed a two year old filly on purpose.[/QUOTE]

I’m really glad to hear this, and that was my experience growing up in NoVa (big name TB studs near us), but here in California, some ranches seem to run differently. I say some.
I purchased a filly a few years back from a breeding farm who bred her as a long two-year-old. On purpose.
I got her at about 8 months into the pregnancy and managed her very carefully with my vets guidance, so she didn’t suffer physically. However, I must admit that emotionally, once the foal was born and it was time to get to ‘work’, I had to treat her like a yearling (a spoiled yearling), she was that far behind. It was a long haul to get her up to speed. I wouldn’t advise breeding that young, I know I never would- let them grow up a bit, physically and emotionally.
If my 2cents is worth anything:winkgrin:
Rebecca

[Laurierace]

Obviously race horses are different from show horses and even riding horses. You can earn money racing a two year old. You wouldn’t want to give that up to have a foal.

[rosebudranch]

I’ve seen more about this topic going around … some I’ve seen say that there is no evidence to show that it is not bad or detrimental to them as 2 yr olds… but then again… there isnt proof that is doesnt either… I jsut think there is not enough data to analyze… but I agree that why not wait til the filly is more mature… that good point of nutrition is my biggest concern…

[elizabeth_Callahan]

There is a higher percentage of pregnancy loss in 2 yr olds than older horses.

[Hocus_Focus]

I am going to quote someone who as a breeder bred a two year old warmblood filly. This was their experience. (not quoting names as it would not be fair as they replied to my enquiry with discretion, and I respect that).

“I’ve only bred a 2 year old once (got talked into it by my vet) but will never do it again. In my opinion, they are not developed enough. These big warmblood’s knees don’t finish until they are 3 and hocks until 5 plus the biggest thing is the growth plates in their back. I’ve also talked to a lot of great breeders, and they all NEVER breed their mares until 3 yr olds - which is all I do now. The mare I bred as a 2 year old had several back/hip issues afterwards & I have always blamed it on myself for letting myself get talked into a stupid thing.”

Hopefully this is helpful to share.

[Clayfields]

[QUOTE=elizabeth Callahan;7430086]
There is a higher percentage of pregnancy loss in 2 yr olds than older horses.[/QUOTE]
Is there data to back this up? I was told this same thing by my vet, who casually remarked that many farms (in his experience as a local TB farm vet) expected a certain amount of foal loss with their young mares, and to not be surprised if the foal didn’t make it (torsion was his biggest concern).
My mare (then a filly) was bred only because she wasn’t sent to the track; not racing? Then trot her into the breeding shed.
But, this just doesn’t seem to be an economically sound practice, to me anyway. There is so much that goes into the breeding, feeding and care of a broodie and so many things that can go wrong, and things that go wrong cost money. Is there a method to the madness? If there is sound evidence that demonstrates higher foal loss in younger mares then why breed them before they’re 3 or older?
Rebecca

[siegi_b]

I have never bred a 2-year old filly… BUT, I bought a 4-year old Dutch mare that had been bred at that age, produced a colt that went on to become the Number 1 foal in the country. The mare then did her performance test which at that time included jumping and got her Keur predicate (upper 30% of mares achieve that).

She has produced number of very good foals for me and three of her kids have obtained their Ster rating (under saddle performance) which gave my mare rare honor of being awarded the Preferent predicate. There are only 22 mares in the US with that title!!

Kadence is now 22 years young and happily retired at my place.

Just saying…

[nsm]

I think 2 is just too young, they are not physically or mentally mature.
Nancy

[Alsabrook]

A friend of mine decided to breed one of her two year olds last year against the advice of several folks and the filly aborted right at the 9 month mark. Not only did she lose the foal (this was a fairly pricey breeding with no LFG), but the mare tore pretty badly and then got a nasty infection that they’re still treating. The vet highly suggested that she not get re-bred this year so she’s going to lose out on this year, too.

This is the exact reason why I won’t breed a two year old. I’m pretty hesistant to breed at three unless the filly is physically mature for her age.

[eaconlee]

If it’s that important to get a foal from the 2yr old, embryo transplant is an option.