Breeding to Alme Z line

[roxyhan]

I have a 15 yr old mare,Roxy, that I would like to breed, but there are so many choices of stallions I’m not sure which I want to breed to!
Roxy’s history: She is small, hot and sensitive.Great movement won young conformation shows, did hunters all over the west coast and got invited to east coast finals. Did 1.20+ in jumpers. Was at one point priced in the 6 figures.
Linage: Roxy’s mom is Zalme out of Alme Z and Nancy (Ibrahim mare). Roxy’s father is Chanson De Kabaret (Cabinett I stallion)

I really want something that will add larger body, more scope, and perhaps a calmer temperament. I’ve considered Darco, Judgement, Imothep, and Crown Z. Any information, guidance, or experience you have would be greatly appreciated!

[vineyridge]

It was stated a few years ago that Darco frozen was unreliable. Don’t know if that is the current thinking now, but the horse is dead, so what is there is there.

[M_O_Connor]

Is any particular registry important to you?

Marco(<–just imagine a D, apparently my spell check will not allow me to type one there) would be very expensive, if it could be found.

[roxyhan]

I would love Holstiner, but when it comes down it, getting a nice foal is higher priority. I have no budget for the stallion, so locating Darco would be the problem.

[RanchoAdobe]

No budget for the stallion? The cost of the stud fee is the least amount of money you will spend on breeding.

[3phase]

He’s not Holsteiner, but have you looked into Warrick?
I’ve seen him compete and been around him in person - very nice. The Wodan line is known for being able to jump well. My experiences with the Holsteiner lines, are sometimes they can be hot (the ones I’ve known.) I’ve been looking at Superior Equine - quite a good list of studs there.

[raffey1]

sent you a pm

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Do you care about registry at all? Fresh or frozen? Is this her first foal? I assume she will be 16 when bred?

Rancho–I think the poster meant it like price is not an issue at all. Not that they don’t have money budgeted.

I still want to breed to Epsom Gesmeray to my own mare at some point (dam was Galoubet daughter) and he might be interesting with your mare–not that you are looking for more stallion suggestions.

[Ibex]

[QUOTE=RanchoAdobe;7884448]
No budget for the stallion? The cost of the stud fee is the least amount of money you will spend on breeding.[/QUOTE]

Based on the context, I read this as “haven’t established a budget for the stallion”… as in, wiling to pay the $$ for the right stallion.

[roxyhan]

I’ve heard that as well, I’ve also heard that it depends on which year you get it from. That’s the entire reason I’ve slightly stepped away from Darco.

[roxyhan]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7884126]
It was stated a few years ago that Darco frozen was unreliable. Don’t know if that is the current thinking now, but the horse is dead, so what is there is there.[/QUOTE]

I’ve heard that as well, I’ve also heard that it depends on the year you get it from. It’s one of the reasons why I haven’t decided on Darco.

[roxyhan]

[QUOTE=RanchoAdobe;7884448]
No budget for the stallion? The cost of the stud fee is the least amount of money you will spend on breeding.[/QUOTE]

I did indeed mean that money is not an issue for stud fee since it is the smallest fee.

[roxyhan]

[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;7885269]
Do you care about registry at all? Fresh or frozen? Is this her first foal? I assume she will be 16 when bred?

Rancho–I think the poster meant it like price is not an issue at all. Not that they don’t have money budgeted.

I still want to breed to Epsom Gesmeray to my own mare at some point (dam was Galoubet daughter) and he might be interesting with your mare–not that you are looking for more stallion suggestions.[/QUOTE]

I would rather fresh or cooled since she is older and it will be her first pregnancy. And yes she would be 16.

Also I am always up for hearing about successful stallions, however, I’m pretty sure Epsom has Alme as his grandsire. I’m not sure I want to risk getting that close in the genes.

[columbus]

I’ve an Ibrahim linebred Alme mare Lena Mail I think she would be very exciting to Kannan who is very hot right now but has great frozen semen. http://www.sporthorse-data.com/dbtestmating.php?&sireid=67785&damid=10863736 Your issue though will be the same as mine at least for the first breeding…until you get her in foal you are going to want to use something easy to get access to. Lena is 16yo and we have tried 3 times with rocket fuel(excellent semen). We got her in foal once but she reabsorbed pretty quick. So save Kannan or your dream stallion for a future breeding and find something from a very good stallion manager and you want that semen to be unquestionably good. This reduces your variables if you have to solve problems. I bred her to Banderas using Dreamscape Farm http://www.sporthorse-data.com/dbtestmating.php?&sireid=10563196&damid=10863736 and chose to line breed on Alme using his 2 best sons…Alme is good to linebred with. So find a stellar stallion owner who will get you the semen over and over again if they have to…you don’t probably want a stallion owner that collects mon wed fri, preferably with lower costs…in that they do their own semen processing and shipping as opposed to hauling into a vet for collections. There are a number of good stallion stations to consider. Then talk to them about the best choice for top quality fresh shipped semen then from a list of those stallions and stallion owners make your choice. This is not necessarily easy with older mares even if they seem to not have issues. Good Luck. PatO

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

[QUOTE=roxyhan;7886078]
I would rather fresh or cooled since she is older and it will be her first pregnancy. And yes she would be 16.

Also I am always up for hearing about successful stallions, however, I’m pretty sure Epsom has Alme as his grandsire. I’m not sure I want to risk getting that close in the genes.[/QUOTE]

Alme will be your foal’s great grandsire. Not telling you to linebreed, just mentioning I sure want to. I actually looked at Bon Balou, which is really close for my mare, but I digress…back to yours.

Kanaan is a great suggestion to add size and temperament, but I agree that if she were mine, I would choose a fresh option. My favorite cross on my Galoubet mare was a landadel son. Landkoenig (another Landadel son) is a stallion that will add size and temperament and is available fresh and the stallion owner is great to work with. Not suggestion you don’t use one on your list, I only feel like commenting on what I have personally seen/done.

Another nick is Furiosos/Alme, but that is getting harder and harder to do. I’d say Mezcalero ticks your boxes, but I don’t think he will be fresh this year…

[roxyhan]

I’ve decided to replace Darco with Orlando. They only have frozen, but they have live foal guarantee, any interesting experiences with him?

Also thank you guys for all your help so far! I’m looking further into your suggestions, they help trust me!

[back_in_the_saddle]

[QUOTE=roxyhan;7884114]
I have a 15 yr old mare,Roxy, that I would like to breed, but there are so many choices of stallions I’m not sure which I want to breed to!
Roxy’s history: She is small, hot and sensitive.Great movement won young conformation shows, did hunters all over the west coast and got invited to east coast finals. Did 1.20+ in jumpers. Was at one point priced in the 6 figures.
Linage: Roxy’s mom is Zalme out of Alme Z and Nancy (Ibrahim mare). Roxy’s father is Chanson De Kabaret (Cabinett I stallion)

I really want something that will add larger body, more scope, and perhaps a calmer temperament. I’ve considered Darco, Judgement, Imothep, and Crown Z. Any information, guidance, or experience you have would be greatly appreciated! :)[/QUOTE]

These stallions have produced top horses with the Alme Z line in the past.

KANNAN
HEARTBREAKER
C line looks like it’s mixed well with Alme line before as well. Corland, Capitol
I know nothing about these horses other than what’s worked in the past.

[mareslave]

orlando

[QUOTE=roxyhan;7888367]
I’ve decided to replace Darco with Orlando. They only have frozen, but they have live foal guarantee, any interesting experiences with him?

Also thank you guys for all your help so far! I’m looking further into your suggestions, they help trust me![/QUOTE]

Orlando is on my wish list.

I’ve doubled down on the Alme Z with a Darco mare (Darco-voltaire-jalisco B ) by using Baloubet du Rouet and V’tropez.

if she’s maiden, I wouldn’t go for size

[can_t_re]

Interesting thread. Are those of you doubling up on Alme breeding for hunters?
Ramiro X Alme was a pretty well known nick.

Here is an older, but interesting thread: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-205061.html

[knowthatifly]

Yes, interesting thread.

Doubling up with Alme does produce an athletic, scopey horse but is generally done further back in pedigree - for example 3rd, 4th, 5th etc generation where it works well. We have due for 2015 a foal by Jaguar Mail out of a Quick Star mare with Hanoverian mother line including a cross to the G line. So this is an Alme line breeding as well as a Gotthard line breeding (and Alme-Gotthard also a nick in itself) but reaches back into Jaguar Mail’s pedigree to accomplish this. We are excited to see what will come of this cross. The mare needed TB blood infused as Jaguar Mail is nearly 80% TB. She has already produced a BWP First Premium Jumper Filly by Liocalyon (Liostro-Calypso II-Sacramento Song xx) so at least in this one example, those may be additional bloodlines to look at.

Mezcalero (Voltaire-Ramiro-Marco Polo) is an excellent choice and we have used him on our Galoubet mares. He is a double nick with Alme having both Furioso via Voltaire and Ramiro.

We will use Epsom Gesmoray on our Mezcalero/TB homebred who has already
produced a lovely Flexible filly. So same (Alme-Furioso)nicking in reverse.

Judgement is also an excellent choice with Alme. We used him on our older Galoubet mare who produced a First Premium Jumper KWPN colt who is a gem to handle as a stallion and who is under saddle and shows a lot of promise as a jumper. This is the Nimmerdor-Alme nick. That nick can be tapped into using Kannan or Heartbreaker lineages as well which has already produced many international level jumpers of late…Big Star, Bubalu VDL, etc. With Kannan, it is a double nick of Voltaire and Nimmerdor with Alme but one must be careful to use a small or medium mare with additional TB blood or you may end up with an overly large, common looking horse.
Darco and Galoubet together have given us Cylana as well as others but as discussed, his semen can be challenging unless doing ICSI. Rose Sullivan in Oregon has had great success using ICSI to produce Darco babies.

This year we produced an Indoctro-Riverman-Galoubet-Pass (Buckpasser xx) KWPN filly who went First Premium Jumper Foal. She has an outstanding canter, elasticity, and athleticism so I would definitely recommend Imothep as a choice for Alme lineage both because of the Indoctro that gives that amazing canter, but also because of his additional SF bloodlines that will cross well with Alme.

Hope this provides some perspective on how to effectively use Alme lineage which happens to be my favorite…as if you could not tell!