I’m a huge fan of the German bridles - old style Kieffer, Passier, etc.
BUT I’m seeing that many are not the same quality leather as they were 30-35 years ago. I have heard that many are not manufacturing at home but are sending out to other countries.
Do any of you know the scoop with the leather/manufacturing of the different European makers anymore? Beowulf?
I love german and french bridles. I like the quality of leather.
I’ve had BOs where I boarded who had exactly the opposite opinion of german/french halters and bridles and saddles.
It’s what you like and want and want to pay for, not what someone else thinks.
There are many different tanning processes.
And of course they all have different results depending on the quality and age of the beast, and what part of the animal the skin covered.
So, it may be that German’s and the French are using the same tanning methods, but importing lesser hides from other countries.
Or, they could be sending their hides to other countries with different tanning processes, or less attention to detail.
Or, the entire piece could be out sourced and the big name just puts their stamp on it.
I won’t buy anything leather unless I can touch and feel it first.
I agree with csaper58 - you can’t depend on a “brand” name anymore - I must touch and feel any leather before I buy.
Although I must say, I have seldom been disappointed in any Stubben bridle.
And I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the quality of Bobby’s bridles.
Love my ancient Jimmy’s too.
But, again, it depends on what you want and what you’re willing to pay.
Passier, Stubben and Kieffer to my knowledge use vegetable tanned rather than chromium. I know for a fact that Passier is vegetable tanned. I’m pretty positive Kieffer is too, and Stubben, but would have to check.
First one must understand what tanning is - it’s basically, removing water molecules from collagen (the fibers in skin). Essentially, tannin molecules move through the leather (usually through soaking) and push out moisture/water. It’s much more complex than that but that’s the short and sweet. Leather undergoes tanning to produce longevity, elasticity, and pliability.
Chromium tanning (or mineral tanning) was the standard for a long time in leather goods - it’s probably what was used on the old Kieffer/Stubbens/Passiers. It’s very quick and convenient, easy to source, and much less expensive than vegetable tannins. It’s the same process – chromium tannins seep the leather, push out water/moisture, and produce a tanned leather hide. Leather tanned by chromium tanning is very soft and supple - it also makes the leather far more water resistant. It’s cheap, it’s obtainable, and it results in a hide that is supple even under duress, uniform in shade/surface area and available in a million and one colors and tones. The downside of having a million colors available is that the tanning process will typically strip the leather of its natural sheen, and you will not have an easy time darkening leather that was tanned by this process.
The drawback is that chromium cannot be recycled had has a significant negative impact on the environment because it is not biodegradable… and it gets dumped. India is a perfect example of that. The movement towards a more sustainable earth and the awareness of how negative chromium tanning is to the environment has caused some companies that are environmentally concerned/aware to shift towards vegetable tanning instead.
Vegetable tanning is tannins derived from plants – usually trees. Harvesting these tannins is incredibly time consuming and expensive, which is why so many companies shifted to chromium decades ago. Vegetable tanning creates a strong, sturdy hide - the base color can sometimes be inconsistent, and it is not as water or scuff resistant as chromium tanning products. The fibers in vegetable tanned leather are typically more visible, and it can be hard to shape/work with vegetable tanned leather – which is why it is usually used with craftsmen over produced en-masse. Vegetable tanning will make a leather that is more biodegradable, so extra care has to be taken to keep the leather soft and supple… but over time, the leather will get the rich patina that Horsemen All Long For. The trade-off is that vegetable tanning is very environmentally conscious.
Now… the reason why Leather Aint What It Used To Be – I think they’ve got the wool over your eyes – leather is better than ever… it just doesn’t come out with the same manufactured, silky feel that chromium tanned leather does. You have to earn your stripes (or your Patina) with these vegetable tanned leathers, but they last longer because they’re much sturdier and stretch less than their chromium counterparts.
A good example of a chromium tanned leather is Vespucci - and my god does that leather stretch… but it’s nice, soft, yummy leather. Some places say it is vegetable tanned but I really don’t think they’re right; Vespucci itself (WEB owned) mentions nothing about vegetable tanned. I think it was a buzzword used by Dover and other companies picked up on it. The Vespucci Veritas is the only Vespucci to my knowledge that is vegetable tanned.
Then there is hides…
A good hide is a good hide, no matter where it came from. Indian hides are actually much better than they used to be; India really has perfected the tanning industry (except for the wastage part) and I would not snub a leather that was Indian leather.
A good way to tell if it’s chromium vs vegetable tanned is to look closely at the cut edges of the leather. Chromium tanned leather HAS to be dyed as the chromium tanning process usually turns the leather a blueish to greyish color; manufacturers then will dye and paint it to get it the color they want. Vegetable tanned leather is usually flesh colored on the cut; it may be lighter or darker but will have no shade of blue.
Passier, last I checked, is German cowhide… but that doesn’t mean it does not get produced in India. I suspect that some of their strapgoods are. Stubben is German cowhide and made in Switzerland. Kieffer I am not up-to-date with.
In this day and age I don’t think where it is produced has as much to do with the quality as it used to.
Of the 3, I’d say Stubben is the best. Kieffer second. Passier is just ok.
Beowulf, thanks so much for the primer on leather and processing techniques.
I think Vespucci changed something about the leather used in their bridles.
I bought the double raised Weymouth bridle when they first came out. (Thank goodness it has now become a fairly classic style.) And I loved the leather, it hasn’t really stretched and it is over 10 years old, and in regular use. Not super soft, and good stitching and hardware. Has not become “floppy” soft, which I really do not care for.
I looked at some Vespucci bridle parts in the last couple of years, to make a snaffle, and the leather felt entirely different. I’ve bought reins, a crank/flash noseband, cheeks, etc.
They used to promote where their products were made, was it Italy? The more recent pieces are labeled “made in India”. As you said, I’m less concerned about where the piece is made, more interested in how it feels.
I’m just looking at a Passier noseband online–says Made in India.
Vespucci always used to say English leather, made in India.
Thanks, all!
Beowulf, WOW, thank you for the education.
I have a Vespucci (not the one you mentioned) but it doesn’t fit him. The end of the crank (it’s almost like a “flap” that lies flat against the skin) is sharp and I can’t stand it. But I don’t use it because it doesn’t fit. 
I think you’re absolutely right - I love the floppy soft leather you describe above that probably isn’t environmentally friendly now that I read your response. I bought a Schumacher that also didn’t fit him and while I thought it was beautiful, it wasn’t the soft leather I remember.
I have a Sommer now that I really like. I also have a Horze that I like. I just heard that the quality was significantly changing of the European bridles, and while I don’t mind spending a good amount on a new bridle, I want it to be worth it and what I’m looking for.
THANK you for that very descriptive post; I have never heard it explained at all, let alone in such a detailed manner!
I use Effax on my bridles - I had heard that when a new bridle is purchased, it should be left to soak in neatsfoot oil overnight. I have never done this.
What do you recommend in terms of every day cleaning (I used to never clean, only condition with Effax, but now I clean more often…) and also conditioning? Never humid here - always an arid environment.
THANK YOU!
[QUOTE=right horse at the right time;8999710]
Thanks, all!
I use Effax on my bridles - I had heard that when a new bridle is purchased, it should be left to soak in neatsfoot oil overnight. I have never done this.
What do you recommend in terms of every day cleaning (I used to never clean, only condition with Effax, but now I clean more often…) and also conditioning? Never humid here - always an arid environment.
THANK YOU![/QUOTE]
That is the “old way” - soaking leather in oil, and research has shown it is the worst thing you can do! It will make the leather softer, but then it tears. Stick with your Effax. Wipe your tack down as often as possible (damp cloth), and dry it, then Effax it about once a month.
soak in oil!!! NEVER! That is a terrible idea…!!!
Don’t over- do anything, light wipe down, and I use Leterbalsm or Higher standards leather care sparingly. I use Leather Therapy wash as it’s one of the only cleaners that will reduce mold and has decent ingredients.
I encourage you to check with your saddle fitter as I did to be sure it’s the right product for your tack. I have turned “cheap” tack I had from my first horse into really nice stuff over time, just by upgrading my products.
I have had a KB bridle and reins for some 16 years now. The reins have been really stressed at least once and came out intact. The leather is soft and supple, the stitching good, fine and even.
I have used Hydrophane leather dressing for years and years. I apply it with a brush to saddles and bridles. As advertised, muddy wet tack can be rinsed under cold water and not stiffen. Not a problem perhaps in the SW, but for those who hack out our dressage horses and who have a past history of eventing, it’s important. As far as mold goes, a wipe with a vinegar and water combo will solve the problem.
Less is more.
I have a couple Vespucci (nice) bridles, a YUMMY Passier (rolled, gorgeous) and an Antares double (also to die for, gorgeous) but my daily work bridles are Döberts and I have been really pleased with them. The leather is as Beowulf describes though I truly have no idea if they are actually vegetable tanned. They start out a bit stiff but OMG when broken in and properly cared for, the patina is gorgeous. And they have that soft-but-not-goopy feel of really.nice.strapgoods.
Oh and I would nevernevernever soak any bridle (or other nice leather) in oil. Not even for ten minutes much less overnight. IF used - and I do, sometimes, particularly if I want to darken something - I apply it in very very very light coats, working it in to the leather by hand, and allowing plenty of time to absorb/dry before deciding whether to apply another coat.
vinegar discolored my leather, so I guess I didn’t dilute it enough but it scared me off the idea.,…JMHO
Voice of dissent. I buy Bobby bridles at an attractive price and soak them in pure neatsfoot oil. I use them for 5+ years and they never need conditioning, and are rinsed off by hose to remove sweat and dirt, then hand dried. The time savings is worth it to me.
I’m another who won’t buy any leather without touching it first. My trainer comes back from Germany with lovely bridles for a fraction of the cost we pay here. She’s a hose off and condition rarely person. Why would anyone want high maintenance tack?
Voice of dissent. I buy Bobby bridles at an attractive price and soak them in pure neatsfoot oil. I use them for 5+ years and they never need conditioning, and are rinsed off by hose to remove sweat and dirt, then hand dried. The time savings is worth it to me.
I’m another who won’t buy any leather without touching it first. My trainer comes back from Germany with lovely bridles for a fraction of the cost we pay here. She’s a hose off and condition rarely person. Why would anyone want high maintenance tack?
I know the newer bridles you should not soak in oil-they will fall apart and by newer this was probably starting 15 years ago. My mom own a tack shop back in the 70’s/80’s and yes you soaked your bridles in oil (maybe not over night but certainly it was done) or used liberal amounts of of neatsfoot oil. Considering I used and showed with her tack from that time period it certainly didn’t make it more prone to tearing. Even at 20-30 years old this tack was going strong.
As things changed how you should care for your tack changed too. I grew up with using glycerin bar soap for cleaning and hydrophane for oil/conditioning. I remember wanting to use some of the “new” (10-15 years ago) products on the market and never liked how they made the leather feel (sticky).
I cleaned a bunch of tack this way for people a few years ago and they raved at how good it felt.
I started riding in the 1970s, took a break of 20 years, came back a decade ago.
I had entry-level English bridles and Western reins in the 1970s, and absolutely the strap goods came looking like mid-brown cardboard. You soaked them in neatsfoot oil for a long time and worked the leather to soak the oil in. About five years ago I rescued all my old childhood gear, and got it functional again. I ended up soaking a bunch of crunchy, warped, leather straps in mineral oil for months and months (i kind of forgot about it) and when it came out, lo and behold I was able to reconstruct a completely functional double bridle that actually has a very nice “hand” to it, very soft reins. I don’t think there was any other way to resuscitate it, and if it’s taken few years off its life, so be it.
On the other hand, I have two black Stubben snaffle bridles now, both second hand. One was bought well-used, the other as-new. There is no reason to soak them in oil. They get washed with saddle soap, and conditioned.
As far as brands, I have not come across anything I like better than the Stubbens. When I go to tack (new and consignment) and rummage among the hanging bridles, whenever my fingers hit something that I kind of like, it turns out to be Stubben after I untangle it and check the brand-name.
I have black bridles now because I have black saddles now, both dressage and jumping. None of this was my first choice. I really prefer how brown leather looks, and especially how it ages. Very old brown leather looks classic; very old black leather looks shabby and faded. And brown leather has a nicer feel to it, start to finish.
BTW, restoring the old entry-level double bridle drove home to me that a double bridle is just a snaffle bridle with an extra bit hanger. If you have enough space in the slots of the brow band, you can turn any snaffle bridle into a double bridle. But because double bridles are now “upper level,” aspirational, and something people tend to only move into if they are seriously showing, it seems that all double bridles are extremely expensive, new and second hand. They are luxuty items. I don’t remember why I bought a double bridle at 15; I expect that there was very little price difference to the snaffle, and I thought “why not?” It was just your basic stiff leather, flat nose-band, the style that is sold as a hunting bridle today.
Question for Beowulf:
Does the tanning process have an effect on oiling leather? The posts above describe soaking in oil and ending up with a nice “hand” to the leather. It sounds like some of the items were older/ancient leather, possibly tanned with the chromium?
Any input on oiling, Beowulf? Mineral vs. vegetable? I asked one of my trainers about it a few months ago after reading a thread here, and she said yes, it was done with new leather items, and she would do it for a bridle, using neatsfoot oil. I’ve never oiled anything so have no experience with it.
Agree with Beowulf on bridle selection. In the last dozen years have purchased, Kieffer, Passier and Stubben dressage bridles. Hands down the Stubben is the best, with Kieffer second, and the Passier is overrated and pricey. What I’ve noticed in the last 15 years is thinner leather, and the style of the bridles are lighter looking.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
