Rest easy Caroline. She had written a public post to be published after her passing.
17 Likes
I read that last night and have not been able to stop thinking about her. I think she was very brave and knew herself and what she wanted and what she absolutely didnât want.
What an incredible letter.
Rest easy Caroline and bless those who were there for you.
25 Likes
I followed her on FB and what she wrote here is truly who she wasâŠVale Caroline.
7 Likes
Iâm really glad to see the nearly universal positive support sheâs had from the community, and appreciate the raw honesty in her letter.
24 Likes
Brave choice that I fully support. Euthanasia is a gift we give our beloved animals to prevent time spent unnecessarily suffering. The fact we cannot give this gift to people makes no sense to me. Rest in power and pain free to Caroline.
56 Likes
I am new to her story and while I am sad that she wasnât able to find a new sense of self and happiness after her accident, I hope she is at peace now.
5 Likes
Iâve been thinking of her letter and the subsequent response since it was posted. Iâm glad for her family and close connections that the response has been so supportive. But my thoughts canât help but consider all those that are considering suicide and seeing such positive support. I think able bodied people that consider suicide feel the same as Caroline, but their issues arenât visible (spiritual/emotional/psychological). The support seems like it would be encouraging to those people to make the same decision. Makes me feel very guarded about the impact this might have in the horse world where many people might struggle with mental health issues (and substance abuse issues) silently.
21 Likes
Iâve personally always believed that we need to undemonize suicide. Make it less taboo to speak about and discuss, and options like assisted suicide more available.
I think it would have various impacts.
-
Support for the families left behind. There are no questions, no requirements for what ifs and beating yourselves up as the survivors. You know what is happening, you provide support, you live in your grief with your family member, and I canât help but think it would assist those left behind.
-
For those who are able bodied and suffering from a mental health crisis, if you create a process by which you openingly discuss assisted suicide, and meet with your family and friends, social workers, mental health practioners and your medical team IOT qualify for it, maybe you have a different outcome bc you are able to find the support you need with you are able to be more open about the struggles outside of the stigma.
-
Peace for those who chose it,whether itâs bc of mental health or physical health. The knowledge that your affairs are in order, that you are able to say your goodbyes and final thoughts like Caroline was able to. The strength of the family to support her through this must have given her so much more peace with her decision.
I truly believe that removing stigma from things like this, and being more open to it, would have a benefit to reducing loss to suicide, and reducing pain to those left behind. But I am not a medical health practioner and this is just my opinion.
67 Likes
I thought her letter was very good at communicating exactly why she made the choice she did and gave me, as someone who didnât follow her story closely, a small window into who she was as a person.
I do wonder if maybe it would be worth starting a separate thread in the off course forum for more general discussions on assisted suicide/suicide. A recent thread in the h/j forum (Rest Easy, Brandon Gibson) about a rider/trainer got locked for getting heavily side tracked into general conversations on suicide and mental health.
Absolutely a topic worth discussing, and many people had interesting thoughts/contributions, it just seemed like the tribute to the person got a bit lost in that conversation.
8 Likes
This is a excellent take that I hadnât considered. I think we normally think of assisted suicide with people who are near death and in pain and suffering as being âacceptable.â Caroline had a major life changing event, although she says she suffered regularly with depression before she says she wasnât during this decision. Was that the case? Although her life was forever changed she wasnât in the same position as someone with say a terminal illness. Many other people have suffered similar results from riding, car, hiking, etc related accidents. I am sure many of them also felt at some point the weight of the life changing events in their lives. At what point do we make suicide âacceptable?â
The recent suicide of Brandon Gibson comes to mind. Although depression, bullying, and suicide need to be talked about more openly were Brandonâs feelings similar to Caroline? Did he believe he was not suffering from depression when he committed suicide? What makes one âsuicideâ and the other âpassing voluntarily?â What makes one person brave and the other tragic?
No judgement, just discussion.
13 Likes
Caroline motioned her mental health even before the accident took away her livelihood and pleasure. What she writes about the specifics is very eye opening. Depression is debilitating and can not always be helped with drugs or therapy.
10 Likes
I also think it would be easier for people to are not actively planning to take their life to talk openly and honestly to mental health professionals just about suicidal ideation.
Even discussing suicidal ideas with a counselor can get someone âred flaggedâ because the counselor is afraid of losing his or her license or getting sued, since âdanger to selfâ means confidentiality can be violated in many statesâand just in general, people are afraid if they talk about this to someone else, instead of help and support, theyâre going to have the police or EMS knocking at their door and taken to a hospital and pumped up with drugs until they are âsafe.â (In the US anyway.)
I am glad her post has started so many productive conversations, although I am still so terribly sorry for the horrible accident that changed her life so dreadfully.
10 Likes
The way I understood it from what she wrote was, whilst she did admit to having depression, she just did not want to live without her independence. And could see no cure for her physical injuries that would get her back to that independence. Maybe not to ride at that level again but to be able to do basic things on her own.
I personally would hate to be trapped in a body that would not allow for me to do for myself. I am not in that situation so of course I have no real idea of what I would do. But I can understand it, if that is indeed her reason.
29 Likes
She did, which makes me ask âIs someone who is suffering from mental illness/depression always aware that they have depression?â
With the deaths of two equestrians so close together, and the very different reactions to their deaths it has generated all sorts of questions.
3 Likes
Frankly, talking openly about mental health online can have some strong reactions.
The last time I talked openly about my mental health and feelings I was accused of not appreciating what I had (and I was sad because I didnât appreciate what I had and couldnât figure out why so it was super helpful), and Iâve seen others commenting about people who use their mental health struggles for grandstanding and generating business, avoiding conflict.
10 Likes
I agree! Which is why it is so important that people can be more open with professionals. Even the best friend isnât necessarily equipped to provide the support that a professional is, which is why I wish people could be more open when they are in therapy about discussing really deep depression, and that talk therapy was more widely available. Of course, I donât think that would have necessarily helped Caroline Marchâbut again, I honor the contribution she has already had in starting this conversation.
3 Likes
I find comments like this frustrating. In Carolineâs own words (bolding my own):
People will automatically jump to conclusions and blame depression, just how wrong you are. Believe me all Iâve heard is âtalk to someone you must be depressedâ from the unqualified, when I then do talk to someone qualified, they say theyâve met very few people who are so mentally aware
Without specific first-hand cause to believe otherwise, I cannot imagine why strangers on the internet are speculating about a mental health diagnosis she has explicitly stated that professionals have said did not affect her at the time of her death.
Iâm not sure how it works in the UK, but most assisted suicide programs require extensive case review and consultation with medical professionals before the patient is approved for the program. It is not a quick process or an easy one, and generally speaking any health issues driving the application (mental or physical) must be deemed permanent or unresolvable. Speculating from afar on whether or not her decision was driven by an undiagnosed condition seems ludicrous and unfair to someone who went out of her way to be transparent.
39 Likes
Yes, I believe her when she said this. I donât think I have ever read first hand details about âtaking a shitâ and what that entailed for her. She brought the conversation to a whole new level in my understanding of what she was going through. I appreciate her bluntness.
15 Likes
And she did say, in her own words, she did not want to be reliant on others anymore, not like she was because of her physical state years after her accident.
I do see not everyone would see this distinction and think because she used assistance she must have been depressed. And then possibly think this is now âpermissionâ to commit suicide because people are âcelebratingâ it.
I donât think anyone is celebrating it. I know Iâm not even though I support the decision she made for her own self.
12 Likes
Read Christopher Reeves book, still me, itâs the most honest account of life after his riding accident, he was quadriplegic. There is little dignity in a nurse forcing your bowel movement every day and the constant threat of kidney infection you canât feel and so on. He lived for his family thatâs what kept him going.
10 Likes
