Hi horsey friends.
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A horse that’s in pain will tell you no in a lot of ways, some subtle and some not. Big bucks would be in the “not subtle” category.
Injecting the naviculars is a good first step since that’s what the bone scan showed. Taking a good hard look at her farrier care is also worthwhile, since that’s so important for navicular horses. Has she had a formal lameness exam?
Investigating the repro angle is a good next step, too.
I understand your buyer’s remorse, and I say this gently, and with kindness: you were warned of this behavior. Presumably you got a break on the price because of it? Doing the diagnostics and trial and error to see if this behavior can be solved is really just part of her cost. You have a few things to explore. See what happens before writing her off.
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Did you also consider ulcers?
Good luck, I’d say that this does sound pain related and not like a training issue.
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What’s her nature? My gelding is very prickly and sensitive, sometimes he bucks just for fun (not bad bucks, I can feel he’s only happy and excited), the fact that I can eventually come off doesn’t bother him at all. These bucks are always when I ask him to canter the first one or two times and can happen both under saddle and on the longe but not always.
Then he sometimes bucks cause he’s bothered by something: insects, sweat, another horse, me not allowing going home full speed back from a hack. Once he began to buck because we got lost and we crossed a hood among the trees down a steep hill. I was hand walking him and when we arrived on the road he began to buck on hand because “You human got lost and I had to walk that bad place I didn’t like AT ALL” lol, It took a good mile for him to settle and be safe to ride.
If Velvet is this kind of horse you can only try to manage her ups and downs; sometimes I can tell Paco is having a bad day before tacking and just give up riding because I know it would be a fight, some other days he’s the most willing and caring horse on the planet
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Ok
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Did a gastroscopy , clean!
Treated for hindgut just cuz
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She’s sweet . Generally easy to handle. But anxious about her friends leaving. Shes buddy and barn sour. Insecure. Inpatient.
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We’ve had a few come through here that were just MAD and held a grudge from poor treatment/riding. We started them completely over. Turned out for a couple of months and then used exercises, long lining, lunging, etc. tailoring the program to each horse’s needs and watching carefully to make changes in the plan. All but one reliably turned around and were safe. Just a thought….
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This would make me wonder if she was tranquilized or was on bute or something to minimize pain. How many times did you try her? Did you pull blood for the PPE???
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I really encourage you to be cautious viewing any horse through this sort of lens.
You’ve already shared that you don’t understand how pain can cause a horse to buck. Now you say it’s malicious behavior.
She’s trying to communicate something. They don’t have a whole lot of tools to do so. Often, we ignore or dismiss subtle tells that things aren’t right, or horses are taught those more subtle ways of communicating aren’t allowed, which only leaves the non subtle options.
She’s just trying to tell you something.
Choosing to believe that her attempt to communicate has malicious intent really sets up a difficult dynamic.
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I tracked down her original owner and she said she never was like this.
I think slme
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It is really hard when you start thinking in the malicious mindset, but I also don’t blame OP for doing so. Horses really can come after you out of nowhere (as in, whatever the horse was thinking, you weren’t pressuring them at the time), and it feels very unsafe. Your personal safety of course is more important than turning the horse around. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter why the horse did it if you’re in the ER with serious injuries.
So. You’ve got good vet folk, and you’ve got a pro that you’re working with. Good.
Bronc on the longe is very interesting and if it feels the same (ie not playing) it does suggest pain related to movement. If it’s just assholery I wouldn’t expect to see it in the same way there.
You might play with some TRT Method groundwork ideas to see how much of it might be around trust and behavior.
It’s okay to give up if you don’t think you can be safe. You might also just try some time off from riding.
One possibility is that as you’ve put her into work you’ve found/created some fresh pain points.
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Have you had her ovaries scanned?
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Yep, totally agree. That playful silly buck is often because they feel GOOD.
The get the fuck off buck is because they hurt. And are doing the only thing they feel they can to communicate that.
These two things below sound like they’re on opposite ends of the spectrum, which is probably just reflective of your frustration and uncertainty about how much more you want to invest? But perhaps some reflection about just what you’re willing to do is worthwhile.
Best of luck.
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What’s her daily life like when she’s not being worked? Turn out, feed, etc?
Please excuse my ignorance, I know nothing about bone scans… Would a bone scan show kissing spines if it was present? If not, I would immediately get x-rays of neck and back.
Has the saddle been assessed by an independent fitter?
I agree with the full restart on this mare, if all of that sort of thing is sorted. Turn her out for a couple of months and then start her (or have a good colt starter do it) as if she knows nothing at all and is a complete green bean.
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I’d second this suggestion. Even for a horse with no issues it can take them several months to really settle into a new place, and if there are major changes or baggage they may need even longer. OP has had the horse maybe two months now which is nothing in the scheme of things, it’s pretty early to be talking about running out of patience. Rushing will only make things worse.
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Reiterating this point.
My second horse was a green broke APHA youngster. I got him in the very early 00’s. He’s the only horse I’ve ever dealt with that had an FU buck. At the time and in my area…no one was looking at things like ulcers, kissing spine…much of anything like that really. After he sent me flying, I was done. There was a natural horsemanship cowboy type guy at the barn that worked with him for a bit and got nowhere fast with him too.
I’m thankful I had some self preservation as a teen. BO ended up finding someone with a pasture that took him. They were warned not to ride him. They of course tried once and they got bucked off too.
OP do NOT take your frustration out on the horse. You knowingly signed up for a horse with issues. 5 weeks is not enough time to show a horse kindness and expect a complete 180. That can take years even if the horse has no known health issues.
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She lives a posh life
Calling her malicious is taking it out on her. You come off angry (intentional or not) about the money you’ve spent getting nowhere with her.
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Which is totally understandable, and I’m very sorry this isn’t working out the way you expected. But, and I again say this gently and with kindness–this is the horse you were sold. You knew you were buying a bad bucker. It would’ve been great if she had a 180 degree turn around right away with nothing but kindness, but realistically…the chance of that was very (near vanishingly) slim. Absolutely a live and learn, and you’re here now, but it is really unfair to blame the horse when this is what you were sold.
If you truly think this horse is maliciously trying to buck you off–trying to hurt you for no reason but to hurt you–then the only answer is to put her down. Selling a horse that you believe is purposefully trying to hurt people for no reason but to hurt them would be massively unethical.
If you don’t think she’s trying to hurt you for no reason but to hurt you, it would be useful to stop talking about this as if she is. It really sets up a dynamic between the two of you that’s very difficult to overcome.
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