Broncing mare. I really need advice

[RhythmNCruise]

@Bays4days

I want to do my due diligence and exhaust all avenues (as much as my finances will allow), but yes I am frustrated. I apologize for using the word impatient. It’s just what comes to mind after what I’ve been through with injuries for years now.
So yeah, I’m kind of sad!

If you can, imagine that Velvet has a very similar sentiment as you. She’s grown frustrated and imapatient too. There is something wrong. And it may be the culmination of many things that she can no longer ignore.

I have a very dependable gelding that doesn’t have a malicious bone in his body (most horses don’t, IMO, that’s a human characteristic). But yesterday he came very close to tossing me because he was trigger stacked and the thinking side of his brain shut down and his reactive side took over. He behaved in a way that is SO out of character for him that I swear once it was all over and even hours later that day, he looked like he felt ashamed and sorry for how he’d acted. (That’s almost certainly me projecting the fact that I felt bad for even putting him in the situation that took him over the threshold. My good, sweet buddy didn’t deserve that, and I 100% could have avoided the entire situation…my own arrogance/ego was to blame).

But I digress. The point is, Velvet may have so many “triggers” that have stacked up over her lifetime thus far that figuring out what they are and how to help her let go of each of them until she no longer has to resort to extreme measures to be “heard” when she’s upset…could take a long time and a LOT of patience on the part of the human.

It’s not what you wanted, I’m sure. If she’s meant to replace your former upper level horse, that’s a big ask for a troubled mare. If your goal is competing and her goal is to survive the day without someone pushing her past her threshold, I’d say that’s going to be tough.

Take a very close look at her feed (no carbs, starch, etc. for this girl…forage and a forage balancer, and some fat), turnout (24/7 if possible), management (socialization with other horses?), tack (saddle fitting, bridle type, bit type), and anything else in her daily life that could be adjusted to possibly remove some of the “triggers” from the extensive “stack” she’s dealing with.

Then, yes, the reproductive side of things. That can definitely be among the things she’s dealing with. Great that you’re getting that checked out.

If all else fails, maybe someone will want her for a broodmare. You say she’s got great bloodlines and is a nice mover and athletic. Maybe that’s her calling.

[Bays4days]

I am trying to make it clear to the people here I am being very thorough!

[GraceLikeRain]

Part of here is having a thick skin. Take the feedback. Dont try and argue or respond to every post if it isn’t relevant. There are a lot of REALLY good experts on here so focus on the guidance and accept that your original post came off as resentful, which is fairly understandable and not totally helpful.

Was she actively in work when you tried her out? If she was sitting it could have given time for something to loosen up a bit now back into work things are really starting to hurt.

Could you talk with your vet about starting regumate early or pushing for an ovary ultrasound?

[Bays4days]

Thank you

[Bays4days]

Ok, I am sorry.

[dmveventer]

@Bays4days

She gets 12-14 hours of turnout in a large field.
With friends next door.

Turning her out in a group might help. It’s probably not her only issue, but friends over the fence isn’t the same and doesn’t work for all horses.

Did your vet do any bloodwork? My very sweet, very lazy gelding threw a few nasty bucks when his vitamin E levels were low. I see you have her on a supplement but if she’s actually deficient you might need a way higher dose to see any impact. Lyme might be worth pulling too.

[Bays4days]

I will mention the bloodwork. It’s worth a shot. Thank you

[atr]

Sore naviculars will bring out some truly abominable behavior. I know because I own a horse like this. A gem until he isn’t. Usually because the joint injections or Osphos (a miracle drug for us) are wearing off, or he’s been turned out or ridden on less than perfect footing.

Mine doesn’t buck, thank heavens, but he’s got a wicked spook.

I’ve learned the warning signs to watch for before things get out of hand, so we can manage it, but it does take constant vigilance to the point of obsession.

[NaturallyHappy]

[quote=“atr, post:33, topic:806011”]
Sore naviculars will bring out some truly abominable behavior.
[/quote].

I’ve been thinking about this and wonder if this is the source. Can you imagine what it would be like to weigh that much and work on feet that size??? Along w my other suggestions, I’d be looking for the very best farrier I could find.

[atr]

Yes. I love my farrier. He is a thinker.

[cilla1]

Oh yeah, I swear mine was a cat in his previous life. I believe as someone said that she could be triggered by something she learned in her previous life. Mine had a rough start and he was very shut down and anxious, it took him a lot of time to trust me and for the first period he was dangerous, he kicked me twice and charged me too. I started him again, I tought out of the box in order to make him do new things. I hang out a lot with him and gave him time and patience. I second the tought of scanning her ovaries and I would give her some time off, preferably with other horses. Then I would start her again doing a lot of groundwork. My horse doesn’t like to be commanded, he would tell no. But if you ask politely or better you trick him to think that he was his idea he would do everything. I’m sure you are a very good rider but some horses are very upset from confused aids, I learned to be very simple and clear in my requests

[RhythmNCruise]

@NaturallyHappy

Can you imagine what it would be like to weigh that much and work on feet that size???

I think about this too. Their feet are so small in comparison to their bodies. Add in issues with the feet, and bless them.

I have suffered with plantar fasciitis in the past, and that made me more compassionate towards my horse and his tender footedness than anything else. When it hurts to stand and walk, it’s really hard to do much of anything happily. And I developed back issues during that time too. When the foot pain stopped, what do you know…the back pain stopped shortly after.

[Amberley]

@Simkie

The get the fuck off buck is because they hurt. And are doing the only thing they feel they can to communicate that.

Eh. Horses don’t ONLY buck because of pain, that’s a trendy thing to say right now but many have simply learned they can buck people off or can’t handle a stressful situation and explode. You have to take a look at the entire situation and what caused the bucking. Lots of barn/ buddy sour horses are perfect in the arena but very dangerous to ride away from the farm alone- it’s common to see explosive bucking or rearing and no self-preservation due to panic at being asked to do something that terrifies them. A horse can easily become overwhelmed by a combination of things; and being buddy sour is an enormous stressor and can lead to all kinds of over-reactions to other small stimuli. If they get to run back to the herd after they dump the rider well that’s a strong incentive to do it again. It can become an engrained behavior really quickly due to the very strong aversion/ reward.

OP, I think your vet is on the right track with the physicals (bucking at the canter in a younger mare under saddle and on the lunge = ovaries to me until proven otherwise). But imho you should also should look into one of the reputable ground work programs designed to give a horse more confidence like TRT / Featherlight / Schiller. You can sign up online and work through most of the steps there. If it’s mental it really will help, she might never be safe to hack out alone but she’ll have more tools to cope with life.

[RhythmNCruise]

Really good points made here. It doesn’t have to be physical pain that causes the kind of behaviors that dislodged riders.

I really like Tristan Tucker (TRT). I think his idea of teaching the horse how to find its own relaxation is great.

In Warwick Schiller’s terms…they have to learn to let go of those “rabbits.”

[Bays4days]

Thank you
Some really good points and ideas here. I will do my research

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

@poltroon

You might play with some TRT Method groundwork ideas to see how much of it might be around trust and behavior.

They just had a new season show up on my YouTube - fantastic so far! Here is a link to the first episode, in case that can help shed some light: https://youtu.be/5u0a8FSkBpc?si=evaoOrklAj28uKJK

[danacat]

This might sound like an odd question, but… where/when and under what circumstances (ridden or not ridden) does she NOT buck?

[Pepsy]

Hi,
Is there any way to do more research on Velvet’s history to determine exactly when this bucking started? Then, what was going on in her life at that time. If there was an incident that occurred prior to bucking. How the bucking was dealt with. Horses have memories like elephants.
Good Luck and Be Safe. One step at a time.

[IPEsq]

Given the timing, any chance the horse had recently had her feet done before the bucking started? I had one horse with sensitive front feet who needed a little more of a conservative trim, more sole depth. Found that out riding right after shoeing one day when he’d been trimmed a little shorter. Totally sound appearing…till we landed off a bigger jump and then he said OUCH and seriously bronc’d. And he was not a bucker at all normally. Farrier was still there and we may have put pads on…I don’t remember exactly, it was a long time ago. Definitely more careful with the trim afret that. Anyway, navicular pain might make you think they don’t want any more weight on their front end by bucking. But not always.

[poltroon]

@Bays4days

I want to do my due diligence and exhaust all avenues (as much as my finances will allow), but yes I am frustrated. I apologize for using the word impatient. It’s just what comes to mind after what I’ve been through with injuries for years now.
So yeah, I’m kind of sad!

I get it. It really sucks when you’ve taken on a horse, it’s feeling dangerous, and you don’t have a clear answer why or how to fix it.

I think the advice around triggers is the right way to see it - you are probably hitting some triggers and don’t realize it.

Agree that you have to read all of these responses with a thick skin. If it’s not helpful, don’t reply. You don’t have to justify yourself to us. But, also, try to take in and be open to advice that you maybe don’t like. I have certainly myself had situations where someone here asked me some hard questions that the people around me would not, and probably helped me find a better path. It works best if you just let it settle in the back of your head rather than try to talk it out in public.

Anyway, all my best wishes to you. Time fixes a lot and if you can spend some time relationship building and getting her truly comfortable with you and her new setting, and eliminate whatever pain or trauma triggers are causing this, she may yet come around.