Broodmare Prospect

[LoveJubal]

Okay guys… I have no idea what I’m doing with regard to breeding, but I am bringing the horses home in July if everything goes well. *** Keep fingers crossed ***

I have two geldings - 1 is aging and semi-retired and the other is 8 and I still show locally with him. So, I will be getting a third horse, much to my husband’s dismay, to make sure everyone has company when I want to take the other guy off the farm

I have toyed with the idea of getting a broodmare prospect and breeding at least once. I like the TB and Warmblood crosses usually, so I thought about getting a TB mare off the track that was nicely put together. If she’s got some injuries, I’m okay with that because we know they were likely caused by the track.

Does this idea sound crazy? I’m not likely going to get into breeding for a living, but I would like to do it one time, I think?!?!

So, what are your initial thoughts on this mare? I like her look, but I’m no conformation expert.

http://canterusa.org/horses/9541/needadrink/

http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=8302073##

Also, I like something about her too - http://canterusa.org/horses/9901/lady-nitro/

[SPRINGBORO]

she is cute… although that man must be VERY tall is she is actually 16 hands. I don’t know what I think of her back end (the slope seems flattish, especially for an otherwise roundish mare) and her head shot resembles her sire very much. She was durable and a good winner, but this isn’t a commercial pedigree at all.

[Highflyer]

Just from a practical standpoint, can you turn your geldings out with a mare? IME this doesn’t always work out well. Will you have enough space to turn the mare and foal out separately when it comes? Do you want three horses or four horses long term?

[beowulf]

no, neither are broodmare prospects.

both have some flaws, the first would never be approved in any reputable wb registry w/ the large knee and over at the knee conformation, she also looks like she is crooked up front in addition to the OAK quality - i accept over-at-the-knee for sport horses since it is usually workload induced, but not crooked and never for a broodmare prospect… she has a nicer hind end than the other mare, but her short neck and limb conformation would make her a bust for any serious breeder.

a shame - she has a very sweet face.

the second mare i did not like at all - and i usually love freud horses. her hind end conformation is generally weak, she is behind at the knee with a straight shoulder, low set neck, and downhill/butt high. as a 2010 horse, you can bet that is there to stay - she also would not be accepted/approved in any registry. what is the biggest flaw IMHO with her anatomy is her extremely upright and short elbow and shoulder. as you can see in the video, she has very little reach because of it.

both look like fine projects for riding if you could keep them sound - there are other qualities i like about both for riding but neither are breeding quality. i’m all for repurposing a quality TB w/ injuries from the track for breeding purposes, but you need to start with a mare that has a possibility of passing approvals.

ETA: examples of quality off-track mares:
http://canterusa.org/horses/9690/ta-steal-dance/
http://canterusa.org/horses/7391/cals-pal-callie/
http://canterusa.org/horses/3121/all-that-jazil/ (she may be pushing it)
http://canterusa.org/horses/9976/riveting-rosie/ (i really like this mare and her pedigree)

[DoodlesMom]

Personally, I would get something proven. There are plenty of breeding sound only mares you can buy for very low prices. I got an OTTB mare a few years ago that I eventually wanted to breed. She was sweet as pie in the field, but untouched for 8 years, and injured before she made it to the track. When I started working with her… nuts. I realized early on I would never want to breed her (personality, not conformation), and I was stuck with a mare that I had no use for. Thankfully, a friend of mine was able to work with her and eventually sell her as a riding horse, but yeah, big mistake.

I plan on breeding once or twice in the future, but I will only get something that has had at least one baby, and preferably something already approved with a registry. You could also consider a broodmare lease, if you didn’t necessarily want to keep a mare long term, or didn’t want to breed again.

[LoveJubal]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8627142]
Just from a practical standpoint, can you turn your geldings out with a mare? IME this doesn’t always work out well. Will you have enough space to turn the mare and foal out separately when it comes? Do you want three horses or four horses long term?[/QUOTE]

Yes… My guys have been in a mixed turnout before and have been fine with the ladies. I do have enough fields to keep a mare and foal separate when the time comes as well.

As for the 3rd question - I would likely keep the foal, but it has crossed my mind as to whether I would want the mare forever, especially if she isn’t sound. As much as I hate to admit it, my older dude (23 y/o) won’t be around forever, so I would likely be back down to 3 horses in the next 5-6 years, unless he is the Fountain of Youth horse

[LoveJubal]

[QUOTE=DoodlesMom;8627199]
Personally, I would get something proven. There are plenty of breeding sound only mares you can buy for very low prices. I got an OTTB mare a few years ago that I eventually wanted to breed. She was sweet as pie in the field, but untouched for 8 years, and injured before she made it to the track. When I started working with her… nuts. I realized early on I would never want to breed her (personality, not conformation), and I was stuck with a mare that I had no use for. Thankfully, a friend of mine was able to work with her and eventually sell her as a riding horse, but yeah, big mistake.

I plan on breeding once or twice in the future, but I will only get something that has had at least one baby, and preferably something already approved with a registry. You could also consider a broodmare lease, if you didn’t necessarily want to keep a mare long term, or didn’t want to breed again.[/QUOTE]

Really good thought on the lease… I will think about that. Where does one find a broodmare to lease?

[LoveJubal]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8627148]
no, neither are broodmare prospects.

both have some flaws, the first would never be approved in any reputable wb registry w/ the large knee and over at the knee conformation, she also looks like she is crooked up front in addition to the OAK quality - i accept over-at-the-knee for sport horses since it is usually workload induced, but not crooked and never for a broodmare prospect… she has a nicer hind end than the other mare, but her short neck and limb conformation would make her a bust for any serious breeder.

a shame - she has a very sweet face.

the second mare i did not like at all - and i usually love freud horses. her hind end conformation is generally weak, she is behind at the knee with a straight shoulder, low set neck, and downhill/butt high. as a 2010 horse, you can bet that is there to stay - she also would not be accepted/approved in any registry. what is the biggest flaw IMHO with her anatomy is her extremely upright and short elbow and shoulder. as you can see in the video, she has very little reach because of it.

both look like fine projects for riding if you could keep them sound - there are other qualities i like about both for riding but neither are breeding quality. i’m all for repurposing a quality TB w/ injuries from the track for breeding purposes, but you need to start with a mare that has a possibility of passing approvals.

ETA: examples of quality off-track mares:
http://canterusa.org/horses/9690/ta-steal-dance/
http://canterusa.org/horses/7391/cals-pal-callie/
http://canterusa.org/horses/3121/all-that-jazil/ (she may be pushing it)
http://canterusa.org/horses/9976/riveting-rosie/ (i really like this mare and her pedigree)[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the feedback and for the suggestions of some good ones. Like I said, I am not an expert and I am a total sucker for a sweet face and some chrome. I can get blinded by the good looks and overlook the conformational flaws.

Anyway, I probably would like to register the foal with its corresponding registry, even if I just keep it for me. I hadn’t thought about the mare not being approved for the registry.

Hopefully, I will get something fancy that can win the hack

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=LoveJubal;8627272]
Thanks for the feedback and for the suggestions of some good ones. Like I said, I am not an expert and I am a total sucker for a sweet face and some chrome. I can get blinded by the good looks and overlook the conformational flaws.

Anyway, I probably would like to register the foal with its corresponding registry, even if I just keep it for me. I hadn’t thought about the mare not being approved for the registry.

Hopefully, I will get something fancy that can win the hack :)[/QUOTE]

i strongly second the advice to find something proven, preferably already accepted in whatever registry you’re aiming for. a lease sounds like your best bet… it’s my conviction if you (general you) buy a mare for breeding/use her uterus it’s your obligation to repay the favor by providing her w/ a good forever home afterwards either with you or someone else… if she is not a riding horse then your options are really limited.

[LoveJubal]

Agreed on the rehoming - I will likely always need a babysitter/buddy for whatever horse I have at home, so I would likely keep her, but it would be nice to have something that is usable, even if only lightly, so we could trail ride, hack, etc.

Thanks again for the feedback. I want to make good choices if I decide to go this route, and I just don’t know what questions to ask.

My friend offered me the use of her mare who had a pasture accident and is an OTTB. She is breeding her this year to a QH stud, so we’ll see what happens. She wouldn’t be approved in a registry either.

Here is her blood line. I have some pictures, but I don’t know if I can post them here. I’ll try - I’d love some feedback on her as well. http://www.pedigreequery.com/sitora

Here is a link to the Photobucket pics I have of her from a few years ago… They’re not great conformation shots, but they’re all I have. She’s a very nice mover

[ElementFarm]

if you want a third horse to keep the others company, and you want the challenge of raising a baby, why not just purchase a weanling with the breeding and type you like? It’s one thing to breed your “heart horse” to try to get one just like her, but I think buying a foal, if you have the funds and the patience to wait for 4 years, is less risky. Plus, you could get a young colt/gelding which wouldn’t shake up the herd dynamics as much as bringing in a mare…

I am only a novice breeder, and it’s not for the faint of heart… In your case, getting a prospect while it’s more affordable (ie before weaning) might be a better bet then getting an unknown TB with questionable soundness and issues that may or may not be a good mom, or pass on good/bad conformation and character.

[rocksolid]

I saw the first mare on Canter and I like her. Her shoulder is a little straight and her neck is a tad bit short but she obviously is tough with all the starts. Being over at the knee, although takes away from her appearance should never cause lameness issues. One of the registries may take into account her race record. It’s hard to tell about how straight her front legs may or may not be by the pictures. I hope she finds a good home. I certainly like her better than Ta-Steel-Dance that the lady posted as an example of a mare to get.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

You can lease a proven mare with a good pedigree who is already approved for registries if you do some research. I would absolutely do that before buying a mare that may or may not get into foal, may or may not be a good mother, etc. unless you want to own her for a different reason. You just never know.

I would also look first to a weanling or yearling. Definitely the most bang for your buck! There is nothing worse than paying for a stud fee and you can’t get the mare in foal, or the foal isn’t what you wanted.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=rocksolid;8627403]
I saw the first mare on Canter and I like her. Her shoulder is a little straight and her neck is a tad bit short but she obviously is tough with all the starts. Being over at the knee, although takes away from her appearance should never cause lameness issues. One of the registries may take into account her race record. It’s hard to tell about how straight her front legs may or may not be by the pictures. I hope she finds a good home. I certainly like her better than Ta-Steel-Dance that the lady posted as an example of a mare to get.[/QUOTE]

you would pick a mare with multiple conformation flaws to breed over a (small) mare that doesn’t have conformation faults?

[Lord_Helpus]

There are a ton of quality broodmares on free, or very cheap, breeding lease. Look at the top 1 or 2 threads on the Breeding board.

I also second the idea of finding a yearling or a new foal. You can see what you are getting, and since it is already on the ground, it will save you a full year before you can see your little darling.

Yes, for a nicely bred and well balanced baby you will need to pay in the 8-10k range. But, in all seriousness, if you cannot afford that much, then you should not be in the breeding biz. It can easily cost that much to raise a foal between mare and stud fee, and keeping the mare and foal, and then keeoing the mare, and keeping the foal (after weaning)

You need to get your feet wet with a weanling before you think about breeding.

PS I do not think any of your suggestions come close to a mare who deserves to pass her genes along. Sorry to be harsh, but a horse is cheap for a reason.

[rocksolid]

The small mare is back at the knee. I am a front leg person. Every time I go look at a horse, the first thing I notice is the front legs. Even when looking at lesson horses/ponies. Two things that really bother me are back at the knee and tied in below the knee. The Arab mare is very pretty but also has a short neck and is straight in the shoulder. I could live with those issues but not the front legs issue. And again I am not seeing the TB mare form the front so I can’t completely gage her front legs.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=rocksolid;8627515]
The small mare is back at the knee. I am a front leg person. Every time I go look at a horse, the first thing I notice is the front legs. Even when looking at lesson horses/ponies. Two things that really bother me are back at the knee and tied in below the knee. The Arab mare is very pretty but also has a short neck and is straight in the shoulder. I could live with those issues but not the front legs issue. And again I am not seeing the TB mare form the front so I can’t completely gage her front legs.[/QUOTE]

i guess i disagree - i watched the video, didn’t see back at the knee. she doesn’t have a steep shoulder but she has extremely long forearms and an absolutely perfect hind end from femur down to the fetlock, so i’d take her over the first TB anyday. she has very good reach up front with that long forearm and shows some promise. she is also a much better mover and is more likely to be approved over the other two mares.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8627523]
i guess i disagree - i watched the video, didn’t see back at the knee. she doesn’t have a steep shoulder but she has extremely long forearms and an absolutely perfect hind end from femur down to the fetlock, so i’d take her over the first TB anyday. she has very good reach up front with that long forearm and shows some promise. she is also a much better mover and is more likely to be approved over the other two mares.[/QUOTE]
Except she isn’t a TB, she is an arabian. The OP mentioned nothing about wanted to breed arab crosses. I personally think the whole thing is a bad idea however.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8627550]
Except she isn’t a TB, she is an arabian. The OP mentioned nothing about wanted to breed arab crosses. I personally think the whole thing is a bad idea however.[/QUOTE]
that is true, she is totally an arabian. i’ve only seen a few OTTA, but none have been that nice. wish she was closer, i personally think she is lovely. i’m in the same camp re: if it’s a good idea.

[rocksolid]

I will agree with you that we disagree. I’m not sure how you can judge the movement of the TB mare because I didn’t see a video. Maybe I missed it. As far as the arab mare’s movement, its average. She doesn’t reach underneath with her hind legs while trotting. Going by the pictures, she looks like she is camped out behind which may explain the lack of reach underneath. Its really not fair to judge them (conformationally or for movement) without actually seeing them. Honestly one of the things I like best about the TB mare is her toughness. Yes she has a knee and ankle problem now but she ran a lot. One thing I think many of the horses of today are missing is toughness. The thoroughbreds and arabians will put that into a horse. Hopefully both will find homes.