I’ve had 8 yr.old mare 5 months. Somewhat green… Progressing nicely. Have had chiro and saddles fit… have started trot/canter transitions. At home, her work ethic is poor… won’t settle, busy mouth, rushing, distracted by her stable mates, FOOD! Bucking during trot/canter transition. Have come off and was injured. When I trailer to trainer’s farm… busy mouth, settles in quickly, not distracted. Not getting the bucking…nice experience. Any advise?
You have layers of problems, IMO.
If you came off, just how big/aggressive/unforeseen was the buck?
Generally speaking, a horse might buck in the trot/canter transition because she’s weak and is hopping up behind in order to pull her heavy hind quarters underneath her for the first canter stride. Or you surprised her a goosed her with your leg.
But if your mare also as showed you that she can’t concentrate, that’s the first problem to solve. I don’t know what you mean by “FOOD!” You mean, she’ll behave badly if the horses she can see/hear are getting fed? Or she tries to graze if you rider her on grass.
I also don’t know what you mean by “busy mouth, settles in quickly, not distracted” at the trainer’s place. Who is riding? And to me, a busy mouth doesn’t got with the other two terms.
If it were my horse, I’d start with getting the mare very educated and focused on the ground, then on the lunge line. To solve the bucking in the transition issue, I’d be comfortable fixing that from the saddle or, if I couldn’t ride what she gave me, I’d fix that while double lunging her.
All of these things take a somewhat professional level of skills to get done. If you are looking for an interpretation of your mare’s behavior, this is a great place to ask. (But I’d put more stock in the interpretation that a professional who knew the mare gave me). If you want advise about how to fix it, that’s a longer topic. And it will depend on you having some skill, or learning more and probably getting out of your comfort zone.
In your spot, I’d send her to a pro I trusted for 30 days and have the pro work through the problem.
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Are you saying that when the trainer rides the horse settles in and does not buck during transition?
Or are you saying that when you ride under the trainer’s (instructor’s) supervision the horse settles in and does not buck?
In either case, I suspect there is something wrong with how you are dealing with the horse, whether it is beyond your present abilities, which is most likely, or your approach. I would listen very carefully to your instructor. If she is not capable of teaching you how to ride that horse, then start shopping or someone who can.
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It could be as simple as you are over-cueing her.
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One suggestion would be to go back to green horse, and stop asking for a canter depart. When you are ready for the canter, just ask for bigger trot down the long side, and more easy around the ends, until she falls into the canter from the bigger trot. Often that “signal” is stressful and confusing, and they get tense - buck. If is just happens, they are now tense and worried. Allow the couple of strides, pet and repeat. Then begin to ask them to hold it just a bit longer, …
When you ride at home, is it on your own, or in a lesson with your trainer?
If its the former, I suspect that you aren’t as “on” in your aids and your mare is taking advantage of that. At your trainers’ you are under his/her supervision, and that together with the new environment allows you to take more charge.
If she’s getting distracted by stable mates and FOOD when you ride at home, it’s because you are letting her. You and she need to get on the same page, and she’s going to test you every.single.step. of the way. I ride one like this. It gets better, but my goodness do you need to work for it!
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This is a hard one to fix without being there, but I suspect she is behind your aids at home and your trainer’s work with you gets her in front of your aids at lessons. What are the chances of getting your trainer out to help you in person in the different environment?
My gelding is a bucker in general - in his stall when he can’t go anywhere, in turnout at a full gallop, on the end of the lead rope (without pulling on me) when worked up, and under saddle. In his case, I do anything wrong - and he bucks in the transition. The biggest one lately is if he feels at all confined by the outside rein he behaves as if unable to canter at all and bucks instead. I suspect your horse has a different but similar type of issue with some small thing which your trainer will have to help you find.
Am I right in assuming you came off during a trot to canter transition? If so, you are likely apprehensive, especially when working her alone. A common reason for a horse to buck in the transition is that the rider is saying “go” with the leg and seat and “whoa” with the reins. The horse doesn’t have anywhere to go and, in frustration, bucks. If you have a secure enough seat, try giving more with your hands as you ask for canter. Otherwise, let your trainer fix the problem while you take lessons on a more trained horse.
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You and your horse are mising a BUNCH of foundational pieces. I would approach this issue from the ground first.
I highly recommend Carson James who is a vaquero type horsemanship trainer. He has an online course for horsemanship with like 100 videos walking you step by step through how to go back and teach your horse to respect you, how to keep him from being distracted, etc. I think the site is like $20 a month.
You need to establish respect and control from the ground, then fill in the holes in your horse’s rushing and distraction, and learn to ride him on a loose rein and teach him what the bit means. A fussy mouth really is usually a symptom of a confined and confused horse. You can find out how to do all of that on that website.
It is not uncommon for a rider who has been bucked off to grip with the legs and seat while asking for the canter.
The rider’s tight still seat sends the horse the opposite message of ‘go forward’.
Many horses will then buck to loosen the rider so they can go forward. It turns into a vicious circle.
Are you more confident and relaxed on the trainer’s farm?
The horse sound like a typical older, green, insecure, mare.
Keep in mind, if you live in north america, It is the beginning of ‘Hormone Season’ and that may be contributing to you mare’s issues.
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A wealth of information! Thanks so much.
This horse came to me through “craigslist”… I feel I received as much information from the seller that she could provide. She had purchased the mare months before as the mare was on her way to auction.
What made me buy her was her movement. I rode her three different times within two days and she didn’t do anything that would make me run. The seller said she was walk/trot and needed help with her transition to canter… very unbalanced.
I brought her to the barn that I board her and just took her out on trails alone and in groups, walk/trot trans., lunging and other ground work… She was great…Not spooky. Trainer came to farm and my rides were better than when I ride her alone at farm. On one specific day mid Jan… I rode in ring… had great trot work. Asked for a canter; was fine. Brought back to trot; asked again - got a little buck. Back to trot; asked again and BAM…out for 6 weeks.
Prior to fall, rides were more productive when I took her to trainer’s farm. She settles right in, is slow and have had no buck when there.
I hack with my two dogs and she doesn’t care, we are around heavy equipment and large trucks and she really doesn’t care…
I feel it’s something from her past. She has a worried eye when tacking although it has become calmer. I have scheduled the chiro and planning extended professional time for her with trainer… at 56 I can’t be falling like that, but feel she is basically a good horse and deserves a chance.
Thank you all for your input. I will report back.
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I’d get her hocks x-rayed if she were mine. It could be some arthritis starting that just catches her wrong at times when she’s not properly warmed up, or when you go through a certain angle. My never-put-a-foot wrong horse used to do this when he needed some support back there.
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It is interesting that the trot-to-canter transition can produce bucking if any number of conditions exist that can trigger it.
In addition to training, rider cues, rider skill, etc. … all possible causes … there is back pain. The horse may be sore from previous work, or have spine issues, or just stiff due to age or other causes.
I ride an older horse several times a week who is sometimes prone to buck in the trot to canter transition. He’s a big horse with big movement, and even a little buck has a lot of power to it. He can only have riders that can sit through it comfortably, as otherwise it’s a long way down. Sometimes those transitions are smooth and beautiful, sometimes they are green, sometimes … IMO it has to do with how he is feeling in his back that day in the context of other work. Affected by other riders who are stiff due to their own back issues, probably a little arthritic, and there’s how much lateral warm-up he’s had and how comfortable that was for him … In his case it’s usually solvable by helping him limber up a bit more and then go back to the transition. On the rare days when he still signals he’s uncomfortable, we let it go and make up for it with other work to help him continue to loosen up over his back. The next ride he’ll be ‘cured’ and we’ll have a lot of beautiful canter work. In a younger horse I would be thinking of a different approach, but this works for this horse.
Several years ago we had Susan Harris at our barn for a Centered Riding instructor update clinic, and were fortunate that she provided a couple of days of auditable private lessons. One young rider, a jumper, trailered in with a very nice gelding. The horse bucked coming out of every jump, without fail. They didn’t seem to be making much progress, so Susan stopped everything to check saddle fit, which mom and rider said was fine. It was, when she put it on the horse’s bare back. The problem was that they at least 4 layers of saddle pads that were quite thick, added at the behest of the trainer (who wasn’t there). The BO loaned her a regular pad, and the horse was instantly fine. Amazing!
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Or she may have some acid splashing around in her belly which hurts when it touches the unprotected part of her stomach during the canter movement, Try a handful or two of Tums as you are tacking up/ right before you canter. If the bucking doesn’t happen you may need to treat for low-grade ulcers to heal the sores.
I had a young horse that bucked so much when we first started trying canter departs that I though we would never, ever canter. He was seriously behind the leg and just didn’t want to do it. When he finally gave up and cantered, he decided it was the greatest gait known to man/woman/horse. Sometimes it just takes patience and perseverance. Sometimes it takes hock injections or Tums.
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I am likewise old enough to really want to avoid coming off. Just send her to your trainer for a bit to see what can be done and how the mare responds.
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Thanks again everyone! Got back on for the first time since Jan 20 fall. Went out around cranberry bogs and just walked. Have decided to have Chiro out to check her and saddle again. Will report back.
This issue crops up when the horse realizes that bucking is the “right thing” when asked to canter, and is probably evidence of holes in your “forward” cue further back in their training. You should really have a professional in horsemanship work with this horse, make sure his ground work is solid, make sure his basics of lateral flexion and disengaging (the root of forward!) are good, then work through this horse’s issue. You need to find someone able to ride that buck until the horse can find the right answer for the “go” cue. This is not an issue that will just dissolve with injections or a new saddle unfortunately. Go needs to mean “GO NOW” and that doesn’t happen in the moment at the canter…there is a safe training progression to get there.
I always suggest this to people…but one of the best and easiest to understand horsemen ever is Warwick Schiller…and for like $20 a month he has something like 450 videos showing you exactly how to solve this issue from the ground up. Otherwise you could very well either get hurt or turn this into a well established habit for him.
There is an answer and it takes horsemanship and bravery and won’t go away with shortcuts. Best of luck!!
It sounds like you have found out why the mare was on her way to an auction barn. She could have developed this habit for any number of reasons - poor previous training/riding, physical discomfort, or just plain lack of work ethic. Without a thorough history, it isn’t always possible to know exactly why a bad habit was formed. Is there any way you can put your horse in full training with your coach for a while? I understand not being able to afford a bad fall, which is why I no longer ride problem horses, even though I have the skills to do so.
Good luck with your mare.
