I recently moved to Los Angeles and wanted to start riding again.
A few weeks ago I met a wonderful woman who got two horses in just outside of LA with amazing facilities. They are both around 9 yo and both used to compete in jumping. She offered that I can try both and see what I like. We can either do 1/2 lease of full lease depending on what works for my schedule.
She hasn’t mentioned any pricing details yet. So, I’m reaching out to this community: What’s the going rate or market standard for such leases in our area? I’d appreciate any insights or personal experiences you can share!
It is going to depend on how sound the horses are and how valuable for competition. At age 15 they will be stepping down a bit. It also depends on how much her monthly horse costs are, which you won’t necessarily know.
Say a horse was in a boarding barn that charged $1000 a month. A 3 day a week “half lease” of the most basic low end horse would necessarily be over $500 (half board plus cushion, shoes and bets prorated etc).
At the lower end of leasing, you basically pay a pro rated percentage of the monthly care costs, with a bit of cushion built in. Or you take a horse on a “care lease” and cover all expenses and vet bills yourself.
At the highest end, you pay something like 30 to 50 per cent of the market value of the horse per year plus all care and vet costs. This is for expensive horses, so the annual lease could be $50 or $100 thousand a year. This is just for active competition horses.
So, the answer to your question depends on what the market value of the horse is, what the owner thinks the value is (not always the same), what the monthly care costs are for the horse, whether the horse is still a competitor at a high level or semi retired, and whether lessons and training rides are included, in other words what the total program is.
I think you should discuss it with her before wasting her time and yours any further? I will say I am “leasing illiterate” as far as I know nothing about details but I think it is all up to her as to what she would charge.
There may be a "market standard " for your area but she can basically ask whatever she pleases and you really need to know if it is something you could ( or would ) pay.
At least I would want to know before I got my hopes up. She may be below the market standard!
Yes! Sometimes people are looking for a kind, compatible rider for their surplus horses, and emphasize that over maximizing cash. Other people are making income off their lease horses.
This! ^^ I found my current “lease” horse by accident. He is a retired jumper who didn’t like retirement so he needed a fun job and I just want to hack out. I pay a very affordable fee and get to ride him on my 3 days off. It is the perfect situation.
Used to live in LA and leased less accomplished (1.20m horses) who were quirky rides. about ~$40k purchase price
Full lease:
15-25k lease fee per year (30-50% purchase price of animal per year)
full training board: $2,500 - $2,700 - 3 - 4 lessons a week & 1 - 2 training rides per week. Depending on num of trainer rides / lessons
Shoes ~$300 per 5 weeks
Special hay/feed /supplements: market rate
Vet, Bodywork, Chiro: depended on the month
Not including show fees ^
Not including insurance policy on animal
half lease ^ above / 2
This is rates as of 2019, which was the last time I leased fully in LA. Live in different part of SoCal now.
Completely disagree. A horse that was ever a 1.20 + horse will absolutely NOT be a care lease unless it is downright so quirky that it borderlines on dangerous. 15 is young - all things considered for a “schoolmaster”. I have leased a 20+ year old still doing 1.10s with an annual lease fee in the 5 figures on top of board and other monthly costs.
And no, most barns with access to those types of animals are full service training /show barns. So it isn’t about the costs to get them blanketed, etc.
Unless OP is lucky to find a private barn (hard to do most of those burned to a crisp in 2017 - 2918 - 2019)…
Also West LA location gives me a very, very good idea of exactly where she is talking about, especially with “amazing facilities”. West LA has almost no land that isn’t very built up. I know all of the barns there and may have leased previously at 1 of them.
Oh and just a heads up. If you half lease and someone comes along and is able / interested in a full lease. You’ll be likely kicked off your half (cancelled by owner with 30 or 60 days notice) despite you having signed the half lease paperwork first.
Most training barns will prefer a full lease vs 2 half lessees and definitely will prefer a full lease over a singular half lease and the other half of the income/ cost being picked up by owner / lost.
I know this is a somewhat unsavory practice, but it is EXCEEDINGLY common in LA unless you are like a personal friend or family member of owner of said horse and have a tremendously long standing relationship or show the horse routinely in the ribbons for potential buyers / future show leases.
I don’t think this is “unsavory” practice at all, and regardless it’s been standard on every half-lease I’ve seen in multiple parts of the country. Show barns typically have flat-fees for half-leases vs full costs covered by a full lease, so yes having someone on the hook for everything that comes up for a horse is better for the barn than having a flat fee that may or may not cover unexpected costs. The 30 or 60 day termination notice can be exercised by either the owner or the leaser, and that flexibility is one of the major benefits of leasing for both parties. When you sign the paperwork you’re agreeing to those terms, there’s nothing underhanded about an owner choosing to exercise a clause that the leaser agreed to.
If OP wants something long-term they should negotiate terms in the contract - I had a half-lease once that was set to last a specific period of time like a full-lease would be because the owner wanted predictability and it worked for me at the time. In any case, absolutely read the contract before signing, and insist on having some sort of contract if the owner doesn’t bring it up first.
Oh I personally don’t think it is unsavory. Some people think it isn’t fair. and well life isn’t fair but money can make it a lot better!
Money is king, horses are a business. I am censoring myself as often when threads discuss finances plainly, I come off a bit like an asshole who openly says that this sport often is very much so pay to play in major metros areas like LA & you get what you’re willing to pay for (within reason)
And good reminder for those of us who are less business law minded. Always read and negotiate your contracts. I redline everything and negotiate almost every contract that comes across my desk! Great skill to have and great to practice if you’re not skilled in this area as contracts are everywhere in life!
The short answer is that it depends. Feed lease vs. paid lease? What are horses capable of now and what is owner willing to let you do? What is cost to keep horses? Do you have to sign up for a lesson or training program? Who takes care of vet bills, including “maintenance.”
I had an informal feed half lease on a 15-16 y.o. horse that had done the 1.3-m but wasn’t doing that anymore.
More recently I was paying $1K a month on a feed lease with training on a horse that may have been a 3’ horse at one point but I rarely jumped even 2’6”. I was supposed to get 2 lessons a week and one hack day on my own. When my hack day disappeared due to my needing that day of the week to deal with my dad’s estate and it was hard to get makeups for when I was away with my own horse who lives elsewhere (more my scheduling issues than the barn’s), I ended the lease and switched to 2 lessons a week for half the price.
Another factor is what you are intending to do with the horse. There are so many variables—horse’s experience, owner’s financial needs and motivations etc.
Usually owners or trainers place limits on what the horse can do ie jumping height, frequency of jumping. If you are intending to jump more than 2’6, I would expect a lease fee that increases the higher the job. Sometimes you find owners who just need to split expenses, but those types of leases that allow you to jump are becoming exceedingly rare unless you have inside connections or a strong relationship with the owner or trainer, and you are a strong rider.
I’d want to know a breakdown of expected expenses to “manage expectations and keep transparency”.
It might be a care lease and then you’re paying either the cost of the board or half board, shoes, vet bills, and any maintenance.
In LA, I’d expect to be paying for some maintenance on a 15 yr old been-there, done that jumper… so just make sure you understand and are comfortable with the costs before moving forward.
A friend just started a years lease on a 2’6” youth packer for 20K for her daughter. Not a national level horse, they do a regional circuit in the SE. Board, farrier & vet expenses extra.
usually to be enforceable any redlining should be countersigned to certify that the action or provisions in the document that have been removed have been approved by both the signer and the other party,
or rewrite the document removing the questionable provisions
I am not an attorney but I like you dealt with contracts which had unacceptable provisions
I was pretty sure you did but wanted to make sure any one reading this thread understood they just can not pencil out anything on a contract then sign it with the thought that they had removed that unacceptable provision
Cant really say what to expect without knowing the requirements and costs not including the lease itself.
Who pays how much of the board and how much will that be?
Where will the horse live and what additional costs- required lessons, training, insurance, vet, farrier, supplements etc-are not included in the lease fee?
Can you take horse off the property, like to show or haul for a lesson from your preferred trainer?
Its not just about the lease fee itself. Sometimes a higher lease fee ends up less expensive then a lower fee with more out of pocket crap dumped on you.
For sure, if that horse has to stay in owners preferred barn with their preferred trainer? You better like that barn, manager, staff and location or you will be stuck with them.
I’m in West LA in what I think is the amazing riding facility (that’s actually not super horse friendly as far as turnout but that’s not the point). On the off chance I’m guessing wrong, I would check and see if it’s a place you need to be a member to ride at? Mine is.
That aside, I would try to understand if this is a horse in a program or not? If so, what will be the expectations for training. If not, you will need to find someone to take lessons with?
You will be astonished how expensive everything is over here, no one has room for hay storage so it gets delivered like 2 times a week, for example. Very few farriers will come over here bc traffic is particularly bad. It’s hard to get good vets etc. Vet bills are also higher for the travel charge.
Feel free to DM me with questions. I actually grew up riding here so I’m pretty familiar with the lay of the land.
