Bungee Cord ?

I just got back from California visiting my sister-in-law and my niece and her two wonderful girls. It was way too short but we all had a great time. My 13 yr old niece is a hunter rider and she wanted me to come see her horse.

He is a 16.2 hand TB gelding just three months off the track and green as grass. He is as thin as a rail (not racing fit but thin and no muscling) and his conformation is sketchy, very narrow in front—I’m hoping that will fill out with muscling and feed. This is a whole other issue. Her Mom told me that they paid $17,000 for him and asked if that was too much. Of course I acting like I didn’t hear the question and went on to something else.

As I said he is green and as I watched my niece riding him I noticed just how green he is and also my niece is not a very accomplished rider. She has only taken lessons for the last three years and this is her first horse.

They explained to me that the trainer they use rides him 3X/week in a bungee. Can someone here explain to me why a trainer would ride a horse in a bungee between his legs through the bit and over the poll.

Some people believe it encourages the horse to stretch into the contact. In other words, a training gadget. I just gotta say, 17K for a green OTTB? Holy dishonest seller batman!

Yes tbchick I agree and a little sad because of that. My sister-in-law is quite wealthy so that’s nothing to her but she thought she was doing the right thing. I wish she would have called me before buying but the kid fell in love and so goes the story.

yikes, hopefully he works out to be a forever horse, they probably won’t get that money back…

I’ve never heard of anyone riding in a bungee, but I’ve lunged young horses in them before. Kind of like less restrictive draw reins. I refuse to pay a trainer to ride with gadgets though, I could do that myself.

Selling a horse for more than it’s worth is not really dishonest, just opportunistic. If the trainer picked it out, that’s where it gets ethically questionable.

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8827692]
Selling a horse for more than it’s worth is not really dishonest, just opportunistic. If the trainer picked it out, that’s where it gets ethically questionable.[/QUOTE]

agree not to mention the questionable choice for a novice horse owner and the resulting 3x training ride$ and gadget training

OP you are horsewoman enough to see this is going to end poorly

[QUOTE=tbchick84;8827675]
Some people believe it encourages the horse to stretch into the contact. In other words, a training gadget. I just gotta say, 17K for a green OTTB? Holy dishonest seller batman![/QUOTE]

Just to add to this, it is often called a neck stretcher.

Highflyer yes the trainer did pick out this horse expressly for my niece.

hoopoe yes I hear that train a coming. I did not have time to meet the trainer and that in and of itself was a very good thing.

Bella Mia Yes I have had discussions with a few that use neck stretchers. I’ll leave it at that.

Good Times I hear ya. Why pay someone to learn how to do things incorrectly. Well they are novices and don’t know—I don’t think they even know what they don’t know and they don’t realize they are being taken for a longer ride than the gelding.

Not saying this is correct or anything, but I used to ride an OTTB lesson horse in a neck stretcher because it was the only thing that prevented her from being dangerously spooky. I was a nervous kid, so anything helped, really.

Looking back though, it wasn’t being used safely. Coach still had me jump the horse with it on…

Ceylon thanks for the response. Can you be a little more specific about riding in the neck stretcher. Did she explain to you why, the purpose? I see you were told to use it because the horse was spooky----instead of teaching you how to ride a spooky horse but as a kid maybe your coach should have had you on more of a steady eddy. I asked my niece but she did not have a clue why her instructor used the bungee but she did catch that I was not pleased with his weight/bungee/green/3 months off the track for a kid. I had to be careful how I phrased thing and what I said because this is her horse that she loves. I am so perplexed with the bungee and jumping in it. Anyway further insight in the bungee thing is appreciated.

I’m hoping someone that uses it consistently and over fences can give further insight because honestly, I am clueless.

We never used them over fences, only ground work with young ones when I was a working student. It was loose until they put their head and nose pretty high and then it encouraged them to come back down through poll and bar pressure. When started early, they picked up what they needed to do very quickly and with proper aids accompanying, they very soon (month or two max) started being ridden without and responded to your aids. You don’t use them over fences as, even loose, can interfere. Some people may not like them and compare them to draw reins you don’t mess with once on, but as with everything, it tends to be with the person using the equipment more than the item itself.

It’s not an evil thing, sometimes horses need to get the idea of something new or need a reminder, it is physically harder for them to carry themselves properly then schlep around on the forehand or go like a giraffe. Also can compensate for riders who either let them schlep, are to weak to prevent it or don’t know how.

BUT it is not a substitute for teaching the horse correctly, taking the time to let it learn and teach the rider to ride correctly, without gimmicks that fix the symptom but never address why it’s happening in the first place.

The situation described is discouraging. What’s going on seems to be like learning only the answers to a test without ever studying the material, at some point that knowledge is needed and it’s not there. Likewise the horse doesn’t learn self carriage and proper response to the aids…like training wheels, they come off, the bike goes over. That kid is not learning to ride without the training wheels and neither is the horse.

Why a " trainer person" charges for “training” needs a bungee every ride??? Would hint trainers skill set is…lacking. At best.

IME, trainers who put Green riders on Green horses that they specifically selected for that rider do so for two reasons.
1). Clients budget was such there was nothing else available in that price range and rider is sufficiently experienced to bring it along without too much help.
2). Client cannot ride/train it themselves and trainer sees a steady income stream in the foreseeable future.
There is a third reason-combination of the above.

Given the above info, it seems #2 is the very clear winner here.

But, OP, good luck convincing SIL she made a poor choice, spent at least three times what a rail thin, dead green, right off the track TB is generally priced at, if not way more then that (plus 15% finders fee commission to trainer?).

Or point out that TBs are generally are considered off type in todays Hunter show ring (except the beefier ones that look like WBs). Agree or not, good trainers who respect their clients goals and finances don’t find them a 1500-2500 rail thin TB at the track, tack at least 10k+ commission on it and ride the gravy train of Pro rides and lessons when it’s not the preferred type and needs to compensate by laying down perfect trips…under a Green rider.

Guarantee most of us could have found you an already going TB proven to lay down good trips under a Green rider and pin well or a Green WB of judge pleasing type for just under 20k. Or find you a very high quality lease horse for a year for 10k the kid can show tomorrow…which is probably about what SIL will spend on “trainer” rides and lessons in the next year with questionable outcome.

I can hear SILs response if you try to point these things out. “Trainer is very well known and has worked for GM and/or Olympic riders and trainer would never deceive us or put profit before our best interests because they are my BFF and have said DD has what it takes to go all the way”.

Yeah…right. Good luck with that one, especially since young teen is in love with her horse of a lifetime that will make her a star.

BTW, I have always had TBs, not knocking them, just pointing out the extra challenges which generally reduce the price, not quadruple+ it.

I use a bungee cord contraption on my young horses. They are very stretchy, and only in the round pen (not on their back). I run the bungee from each side of the mouth (attached to the ring snaffle), and cross them through their front legs, and attach to either the surcingle or girth buckle. The horse works their mouth/jaw themselves with each step. Every horse I have started this way is very light in the bridle, and they understand bit pressure. The bungees allow and encourage them to stretch down, and if they throw their head up, they are essentially teaching themselves not to. When the horse is standing still, they should be straight, but not tight.

[QUOTE=ColoredHares;8828215]
I use a bungee cord contraption on my young horses. They are very stretchy, and only in the round pen (not on their back). I run the bungee from each side of the mouth (attached to the ring snaffle), and cross them through their front legs, and attach to either the surcingle or girth buckle. The horse works their mouth/jaw themselves with each step. Every horse I have started this way is very light in the bridle, and they understand bit pressure. The bungees allow and encourage them to stretch down, and if they throw their head up, they are essentially teaching themselves not to. When the horse is standing still, they should be straight, but not tight.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that’s proper use. OP says trainer charges for riding 3 times a week in them, am assuming kid uses them and there’s a huge underlying suitability for beginner rider and value for price paid question that go along with the gimmick choice and frequency.

Frankly, I prefer draw reins occasionally to sharpen them up when riding or if I think it’s going to try to kill me. Start retraining career changers or problem types lunging in side reins a couple of times a week with the goal to teach self carriage and lose them ASAP. Always had the type horse that naturally carried level or a smidgen low ( my preference) so the bungee was never an appropriate choice. With the few I’ve worked with that went hollow backed and head high, bungee was helpful short term but it never fixed underlying problems caused by conformation or back issues for various reasons…I now suspect Kissing Spines, which we did not know about at the time.

Just get the picture of a bad choice of seriously overpriced unsuitable horse pushed by questionable " trainer" here.

The bungee is innocent. Much bigger problems here.

[QUOTE=kaluha2;8828000]
Ceylon thanks for the response. Can you be a little more specific about riding in the neck stretcher. Did she explain to you why, the purpose? I see you were told to use it because the horse was spooky----instead of teaching you how to ride a spooky horse but as a kid maybe your coach should have had you on more of a steady eddy. I asked my niece but she did not have a clue why her instructor used the bungee but she did catch that I was not pleased with his weight/bungee/green/3 months off the track for a kid. I had to be careful how I phrased thing and what I said because this is her horse that she loves. I am so perplexed with the bungee and jumping in it. Anyway further insight in the bungee thing is appreciated.

I’m hoping someone that uses it consistently and over fences can give further insight because honestly, I am clueless.[/QUOTE]

The coach is known to pressure riders into riding mounts that are too much for them because they’re “fancier”. I didn’t stay with them for long. I was terrified of the horse but not allowed to ride something else.

She didn’t explain the whys to me, but my best guess is that the pressure on her poll and mouth from the bungees encouraged her to keep her head down, and in keeping her head lower her field of vision was lower and it gave her less to look at and use as an excuse to spook.

They used the bungees in conjunction with the mare’s slow twist Pelham, which I now recognize is a really bad idea.

I hated jumping the mare in it because it made her jump awkward. Or at least that’s how it felt to me, compared to what I saw when other riders would ride her without the bungees (and riders fell off her on a regular basis without the bungees). I’m sure my riding was the actual culprit, but I thought she stopped more with them on as well. I went jumping alone SOOOOOOO often in my time with her. It ruined me for jumping for many years (I only just picked it up again with my own pony last year, after a nearly ten year hiatus).

I wouldn’t mind trying one on my pony sometime, while lunging him. My hope is that it might gently encourage him to stretch down and out, something that he really struggles with with his conformation.

I’ve used a bungee/neck stretcher on my jumper gelding… I basically had it at its loosest setting and it helped him relax and use himself. I only used it on the flat… And I use to be flexible enough to reach down and I clip it from the saddle… I used it over his head thru the bit and between his legs and clipped it to the ring on his girth. It really never came into play unless he was twisting and then I basically choke float the reins and let him “punish” himself for evading the bit. That being said I ride in very mild b8its… Myler No-pinch or a Waterford full-check.
He was also somewhat advance in his training and we were just trying to find a different way to encourage him to relax and not throw his head. It seemed to relax him at shows in the warm up ring and I would call it my “dumbo feather” he really didn’t need it, but I think the poll pressure relaxed him and made him focus.
I prefer it to horses that tolerate it draw reins. I’ve just always felt that draw reins seem to set the head more than actually encourage the horse to really use itself. But maybe I have just never seen someone use them that really knew what they were doing. With the bungee I just feel like if it works the horse relaxes and stretches into the contact… And the rider really doesn’t have to do anything except encourage contact by just riding… By this I mean using leg and appropriate contact.
That being said not every horse tolerates them and I have found cold backed mares tolerate them very badly to the point I had to get off of mare because I thought she was going to flip over. She was not my horse otherwise I would have had the chiropractor out to adjust her.
Sounds like sad situation for your SIL and niece. Hopefully everyone will stay safe and they will eventually wise up.

[QUOTE=Ceylon Star;8827945]
Not saying this is correct or anything, but I used to ride an OTTB lesson horse in a neck stretcher because it was the only thing that prevented her from being dangerously spooky. I was a nervous kid, so anything helped, really.

Looking back though, it wasn’t being used safely. Coach still had me jump the horse with it on…[/QUOTE]

Putting any kid, let alone a nervous one, on a spooky horse is dangerous enough in itself without adding a gadget and then not using it “safely” either. A good lesson horse shouldn’t be spooky even if his rider spooks sometimes.

I am sorry you had to deal with that sort of experience.

total gadget, not needed.

It sounds like a draw rein, and the uneven pressure will drive a horse nuts esp a TB like this.

I wouldn’t ride with a trainer that used this, ever, since it shows a lack of good foundation in classical riding.

This is a hard one. Not specifically the bungee cord pro or con, but the whole situation.

OP lives at a distance from relatives who are new to horses, getting bad advice, and possibly headed for a bad or at least disappointing experience. OP can see all the red flags. Situation is complicated by the fact that relatives are throwing money away on the bad advice, but it would be just as sticky a situation if the relatives were doing things on the cheap. And possibly would be just as sticky if relatives lived nearby, though in that case maybe OP would have been around as an advisor from the start.

There are a number of red flags here, but not actual intervene-immediately danger.

I’m not sure you can do much to intervene when there is a non-horsey mom who thinks she has bought the best for daughter. Mom knows she knows nothing, which is fine, but she has then signed over her judgement to the trainer. And neither mom or daughter know enough to see the red flags.

I think all you can say in this situation is: I’m glad you’re happy in your current situation. If your situation stops working for you, if you run into problems, if you want to run any questions by me, I’d be happy to help you problem solve, give you a second opinion, etc. In whatever words work for the relationship you have with these people.

Also chat with daughter about how she feels about the horse.

Keep the lines of communication open, by not being too critical now while they are in the honeymoon period with the horse.

I hope they are getting help figuring out how to care for the horse. They need to get some calories into him and make sure he is getting shoes and vaccines on schedule. The trainer sounds like a loser.