Burghley

[TMares]

@betonbill

I didn’t watch any of the live stream, but I have been following the written accounts both here and on EN. I finally watched Dom’s ride yesterday–and congratulations to him and Bolly. However, there was one clump of white jumps arranged all together (which I assume were the ones in question). The entire area looked like a showjumping arena to me, and I would assume it would look like that to the average horse. I don’t think that the cross country phase should assume that the average horse, upon seeing what looks like a showjumping course, would immediately say to itself, “Nope, I’m running cross country and even if those look like SJ jumps they really aren’t.”

The cross country test is supposed to be fairly straight-forward, a messenger galloping from point A to point B and jumping over whatever obstacles he encountered.

I would also beware of a course designer who publically said that “the course even scares me.”

I could not agree more.

[kmwines]

Crazy that Buck decided that this one should be Jak My Style’s first 5*

[vagabondrider]

@lep

Interesting about Tim Price’s comments on his fall. In Ollie Townend’s interview, he said something to the effect of how he’d been told about Pippa’s stumble in that water, and so he intentionally took a bit of a hold on his horse and kept his head up as they were entering the water.

Where Tim stumbled leading to his fall was the exact same spot where Pippa stumbled.

[AZ_TD]

@banmharcach

youtube has a compilation of Burghley fiascos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIl8OJNlrc0

Looked like one horse got a front hoof caught in the breastplate/martingale so he could not land correctly.

[MsRidiculous]

@kmwines

Crazy that Buck decided that this one should be Jak My Style’s first 5*

It was the winning horse’s first 5* as well.

[mugsgame]

I just want to add something none of you are taking into account is that there were tonnes of alternatives which riders should have taken. Too many were not up to the corner as backward at the oxers and should have done what Liz Halliday Sharp did.

Of the falls barely any were above a 60% chance of getting round. Katie Preston has failed to get round Badminton and down a level at Bramham. Balham Mist has a less than sterling record. I appreciate there is a Mark Phillips witch hunt on here but actually why have you not criticised the riders for taking horses who shouldn’t be there and for making dumb decisions. That question has been there in a similar ilk for 5 years but its too convenient to blame CMP.

Andrea Baxters FEI record is appalling on that horse. She has a 33% chance of getting round ANY FEI course clear … she made it round Burghley but has spent $40k in the process after 3 attempts, nice if you have the money! Maybe someone needs some balls to say to these riders instead - Should you be doing this and risking your horses and your own lives? Or you are not ready? But instead everyone wants stories of positivity and nobody to rain on parades…

There is a proven correlation between lack of clears and falls.

[gardenie]

I have to agree that it appears a bit crazy to choose Jak My Style to go to Burghley. He did not get round Kentucky, and had a rotational with Justine Dutton on him in 2017 upon which Buck got the ride.

[Larksmom]

@mugsgame

I just want to add something none of you are taking into account is that there were tonnes of alternatives which riders should have taken. Too many were not up to the corner as backward at the oxers and should have done what Liz Halliday Sharp did.

Of the falls barely any were above a 60% chance of getting round. Katie Preston has failed to get round Badminton and down a level at Bramham. Balham Mist has a less than sterling record. I appreciate there is a Mark Phillips witch hunt on here but actually why have you not criticised the riders for taking horses who shouldn’t be there and for making dumb decisions. That question has been there in a similar ilk for 5 years but its too convenient to blame CMP.

Andrea Baxters FEI record is appalling on that horse. She has a 33% chance of getting round ANY FEI course clear … she made it round Burghley but has spent $40k in the process after 3 attempts, nice if you have the money! Maybe someone needs some balls to say to these riders instead - Should you be doing this and risking your horses and your own lives? Or you are not ready? But instead everyone wants stories of positivity and nobody to rain on parades…

There is a proven correlation between lack of clears and falls.

I guess Arctic Soul isn’t good enough to get around Burghley. Some of what you say is true, however, this isn’t the first go round with his courses. He NEVER takes any responsibility for any problems. But I believe there were serious problems with the design of the Maltings this year, and those white gates. I do think people should be more realistic about what they can do, and if Andera Baxter wants to spend $40k to get around, what business is it of yours? As a matter of fact, she DID get around this year. I personally do not understand why anyone would want to come here unless they were clear on Ky for two years at least, and maybe at Badminton too. Falling horses are no joke.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@kmwines

Crazy that Buck decided that this one should be Jak My Style’s first 5*

It’s the first 5* for a lot of horses. Traditionally it favors bold TB horses…more than some of the other 5* that are super twisty and have less flow. It will be great when we have a 5* in the US for the Fall so riders have another choice

[kmwines]

@gardenie

I have to agree that it appears a bit crazy to choose Jak My Style to go to Burghley. He did not get round Kentucky, and had a rotational with Justine Dutton on him in 2017 upon which Buck got the ride.

Well he never got a chance to go round ky because buck fell off earlier

[mugsgame]

@Larksmom

I guess Arctic Soul isn’t good enough to get around Burghley. Some of what you say is true, however, this isn’t the first go round with his courses. He NEVER takes any responsibility for any problems. But I believe there were serious problems with the design of the Maltings this year, and those white gates. I do think people should be more realistic about what they can do, and if Andera Baxter wants to spend $40k to get around, what business is it of yours? As a matter of fact, she DID get around this year. I personally do not understand why anyone would want to come here unless they were clear on Ky for two years at least, and maybe at Badminton too. Falling horses are no joke.

Gemma has already held her hand up and said i made a mistake on Arctic Soul and then rode the question better second time. CMP did hold his hands up at the gate and say it didn’t work and you wont see it again. I have no issue with what Andrea Baxter spends her money doing but I do care that when horse sport is so under the spotlight that high risk people carry on regardless. MERS are just that minimum.
We seem to be a lot better in the uk at holding up hands when culpable - David Britnells riding was shocking and he has apologised publicly along with getting a yellow card.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@MsRidiculous

It was the winning horse’s first 5* as well.

And the people saying you should get around KY a few times are totally wrong. First that is completely underestimating the difficulty of KY. A 5* is still a 5* and damn hard. KY is not a move up course. No 5* is. There are only 5 such courses on this side of the world. And if your horse is sound and ready to go in the fall… and you can afford it…you go to one in the fall. Not wait 2+ years running elsewhere. This isn’t moving up to training level or Prelim. This is the pinnacle of our sport and the window for most horses at this level is quite short.

ETA: and the reason you don’t see huge numbers of Riders not based in North America at KY is the SAME reason you don’t see a lot of North American based riders at the Badminton, Burghley, Pau etc…it is not because one is better or harder OR easier but cost if travel affects choice. So damn right if someone is ready at those levels…and can afford the travel. They go. But I do agree that the question of whether someone is ready is more than just if they qualified…just as it is for any competition at any level.

[JER]

@mugsgame

Maybe someone needs some balls to say to these riders instead - Should you be doing this and risking your horses and your own lives? Or you are not ready?

Indeed.

But at Burghley, it seemed like the course designer was the one asking these questions and that is probably not the most tactful or safe way to go about this.

[skydy]

@mugsgame

Gemma has already held her hand up and said i made a mistake on Arctic Soul and then rode the question better second time. CMP did hold his hands up at the gate and say it didn’t work and you wont see it again. I have no issue with what Andrea Baxter spends her money doing but I do care that when horse sport is so under the spotlight that high risk people carry on regardless. MERS are just that minimum.
We seem to be a lot better in the uk at holding up hands when culpable - David Britnells riding was shocking and he has apologised publicly along with getting a yellow card.

I believe it was an official warning, not a yellow card. I can’t however be sure, because the eventing yellow car/warning section appears to be in a computer language that I don’t understand. The other disciplines on the FEI website lists come up in plain english.

Strange. Does anyone know why this is? I’m sure it must be something on my end…

[FrittSkritt]

@Larksmom

I personally do not understand why anyone would want to come here unless they were clear on Ky for two years at least, and maybe at Badminton too. Falling horses are no joke.

Which is why I was surprised that Chris Talley was entered. He is a beautiful rider and has a brave, catty horse, but going to the hardest 5* in the world for your and your horse’s second 5* competition ever just seemed a bit ambitious. I would have aimed for something traditionally less crazy, like Pau.

[Rnichols]

@FrittSkritt

Which is why I was surprised that Chris Talley was entered. He is a beautiful rider and has a brave, catty horse, but going to the hardest 5* in the world for your and your horse’s second 5* competition ever just seemed a bit ambitious. I would have aimed for something traditionally less crazy, like Pau.

Was Dom not in the same boat? I could be wrong, but if my memory is correct it was his second 5* as well. Yes thought they both rode great and got around with no refusals. I was super bummed to see Chris had to withdraw - I read somewhere he was sore in the stifle, but the horse also lost a front shoe at fence 5 (!!) so I wouldn’t be surprised if that was also a contribution factor.

As someone else said, id your qualified, have the funds, and have a sound horse…you go to the 5*. You don’t wait, because if you wait anything could happen. Hell, I have that same mantra for me and my horses - if I can afford it and have the time and money I’m going to the event. Because I’m sure there’s going to be a certain point where I won’t be as fortunate as I am now and I don’t want to take it for granted.

[Marigold]

@mugsgame

CMP did hold his hands up at the gate and say it didn’t work and you wont see it again.

To say “the gates didn’t ride like I wanted them to and they won’t be there next year” is a woefully insufficient statement given that it should have read “I chose to place fences in riskier places on course because I relied on frangible technology to save horses and riders if they made errors, but I failed to research the frangible technology I relied upon and thus applied it in a scientifically unsupported way. A bunch of people fell on their heads as a result - my bad.”

Also, I frankly will believe it when I see it. He “didn’t like the ride” through the egg boxes at Clarence Court last year and as a result they “wouldn’t be there next year”. Let’s ask Woodge what she thought of their ‘removal’ shall we?

[mugsgame]

@Rnichols

Was Dom not in the same boat? I could be wrong, but if my memory is correct it was his second 5* as well. Yes thought they both rode great and got around with no refusals. I was super bummed to see Chris had to withdraw - I read somewhere he was sore in the stifle, but the horse also lost a front shoe at fence 5 (!!) so I wouldn’t be surprised if that was also a contribution factor…

When you look at Dom’s record FEI there are pretty much zero xc faults. Which means his chances of getting round clear are 92%. I have also looked at his XC nationally as well and its all clear. In 2 years his only fault was at Kentucky. That is a very solid record.

Unmarked Bills had a frangible pin in July 2017 and a 20 pens at old 3* back in March 2017. This takes him to 90% xc clear.

Indy 500 has 14 runs in the last 2 years nationally and Internationally and has 6 clears. This is 42% chance of getting round ANY xc clear. It looks even worse going down to 33% at FEI. Included in that is 3 x 20, 1 x rider fall, 1 x 80, 1 x 40 and 1 x 15.

LCC Barnaby had 22 runs in the last 2 years at FEI and Nationally. 4 x 20 pens and 1 x RF. Chances of going clear are 77%.

[mugsgame]

@Marigold

To say “the gates didn’t ride like I wanted them to and they won’t be there next year” is a woefully insufficient statement given that it should have read “I chose to place fences in riskier places on course because I relied on frangible technology to save horses and riders if they made errors, but I failed to research the frangible technology I am relied upon and thus applied it in a scientifically unsupported way. A bunch of people fell on their heads as a result - my bad.”

Also, I frankly will believe it when I see it. He “didn’t like the ride” through the egg boxes at Clarence Court last year and as a result they “wouldn’t be there next year”. Let’s ask Woodge what she thought of their ‘removal’ shall we?

What else can he say about the gates? A little known fact is the Europeans had gates. The riders asked for the striding to be adjusted because it was built on a 12 foot distance of 2 strides. The riders felt this was too tough a question so asked for the striding to be made longer. Even though that is a perfectly valid distance and it would mean they had to ride appropriately for the question… Anyway it was lengthened and it barely caused any issues. CMP gates were not asked to be adjusted… The main issue with the CMP gates is the pin didn’t activate as required. Nobody knew why and I am sure that the information will be used. The Euro gates did activate…

[jcraig10]

@skydy

I believe it was an official warning, not a yellow card. I can’t however be sure, because the eventing yellow car/warning section appears to be in a computer language that I don’t understand. The other disciplines on the FEI website lists come up in plain english.

Strange. Does anyone know why this is? I’m sure it must be something on my end…

Correct, official warning. Here is the link to clean version: https://inside.fei.org/system/files/List%20of%20Eventing%20Warnings_1.xlsx