Yeah, HYN, what’s up with that? Are we being kicked out of this thread? We’re topic fugitives!
NY Times, Sunday, 10/14
Nurturing Young Islamic Hearts and Hatreds
Reading this gave me the creeps!!
So, after watching the speech I have just a few words to say:
“Saddle up, we ride at dawn!” 
<<They had a really sad article in todays paper about the afghan refuges trying to get to Pakistan. They are utterly clueless and afraid of what might happen, they are starving and beaten down. It is really sad to see a picture of an old man with his children pushing a cart with everything they own, just wanting out.>>
And this has gone on for generations which makes it possible for Bin Laden and other murderers to recruit new assistants for their army’s of terror while ignoring the homeless widow and her children.
Kryswyn- I just spent the first part of the weekend at an annual “All Girls Ride”- no husbands, no kids- just food, beer and hosses. 
One gal’s son is in the second group of an Air Force unit set to leave for “points east”. She said he is ready and has a strong conviction about doing his job right. We should never underestimate the power of the training of our troops and leaders.
SLW
To answer your question, pacificsolo, what would I do if I could make policy?
I’d round up all the middle east/central asia area specialists I could get on short notice, along with experts on terrorism and American foreign policy. I’d get them in a room with the US military guys, and we’d discuss options and potential ramifications. We’d talk about why it happened, who we think did it, what we already know about them. Then we talk about the different ways we could respond, and ask of each option - would it make the problem worse, ultimately? What would it do to existing infrastructure? Would the degree of devastation create the social conditions to strengthen the taleban and the terrorist network? What does it mean to “smoke 'em out of their holes” in terms of the loss of American life? What about the millions of land mines sitting in Afghanistan? How many US soldiers are going to get blown up by them? Could a small group of special operatives realistically find this organization? If so, how? How long would it take?..and so on. I would work with this crew to develop a plan that would minimize destruction and death, maximize international cooperation, and maximize the prospects for democracy in Afghanistan. I would urge Americans to get educated about our role in the world, a paradox of peacemaker and lumbering hungry giant. I would further want to re-evaluate US foreign policy and ask what kind of role it’s played in the intensification of anti-US terrorist attacks. Then take a bunch of heat from the multinationals who have benefitted from said policy. Then a painful debate on the merits of protecting financial interests abroad vs protecting Americans at home. Then I get a huge headache, and wish I didn’t have to make so many difficult decisions, and take off for a long trail ride.
Does that answer the question?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by heidi-ugh:
<<recommend David Halberstam’s article in the September Vanity Fair which chronicles the great tension between the Clinton administration and the military.>> Thanks for the tip, I’ll look for it in town. I recall Clinton making some unpopluar decisions regarding the military at the lower levels.
<<I’d also ask, had the terrorist attacks not taken place on American soil on September 11, would Bush have been any different with respect to foreign policy?>> I have no idea or expertise in this area, 
, other than for starters, I do believe that this attack is an example of a massive and profound failure within our American intelligence agencies, domestic and foreign.
<<Events such as the terrorist attacks do not happen in a vacuum but rather seems a culmination of many years of misguided U.S. foreign policy. And Clinton’s not the only culpable former President.>> Yes, I agree, see above comment. Weekly we are learning more and more about how long the terriorist were living amongest us.
I offered the news article in direct responce to your comment about President Bush, “Whether it’s a true indication of his ability to deal effectively with the threat of terrorism” as evidence of how it is documented that the former President did handle some situations.
One quote I really like comes from Rep. J.C. Watts of OK., “Character is what you do when no one watching”. In his free time, when no one is watching, maybe Dubya dreams up these words to just plain confound us!!! Can’t you see Bin Laden in his cave today “What DOES Bush mean misunderestimated!?”
SLW- please don’t undermistand me!!!
recent reports of a tremendous spurt in gun purchases by Americans in recent weeks? How exactly is this going to help defend the average citizen against terrorist attacks?!
Thank you, M.O’C - that was well said, and yes, Louise, that was pretty much how I felt when I read this last night. Figured I was better off not saying anything until late in the morning.
And Heidi, nope, sorry, you have to stay. Your contributions are too important, and I neeeeeeed your humor. More importantly, I suspect such luminaries as Hillary, Al and Ted would be lost without you… 
I, for one, have learned a lot since I started reading this thread. People have challenged what I believe, and forced me to reexamine or reaffirm that which I believed to be true.
As noted, a few posters have no intention or desire to engage in constructive debate, and no apparent ability to form new opinions. This is cool, nobody said they had to. And I am sure they are equally frustrated that nobody seems to understand how amazingly correct they are… If that ain’t a frustrating way to go through life, I don’t know what is!
But to quote my favorite “bard” before we return to the COTH Arab Studies group… “Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see…”
And now (again), back to our regularly scheduled class on Arab studies. Today’s reading is (again) from Janes. Interesting stuff from Rumsfield and the differences between this campaign and the “CNN” war in the Gulf…
Here, I go, opening my mouth again~
As a soon-to-be-16-year-old, I suppose I should not understand oral sex <and I just realized how funny my first line of this is, now re-reading the whole thing>…LOL…but what the heck, freedom of bickering for everyone! And seeing as I am one of the liberally-misguided and morally corrupt youth of America, I will use that right. Now for some nit-picking of my own…
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Why would you be embarrassed if he’s doing a good job? Is it just that your disappointed because he is not as stupid as you estimated because he has not been merchandised like a package of cookies?
The ability to speak in coherent sentences is now known as merchandising? I have no problem with Bush not being as well-spoken as other people I know, but I do have a problem when people use this as some sort of defense. Like having a higher-than-usual vocabulary or IQ is some kind of handicap…and that being average and mediocre are the new national goals. “Jus 'cause he don’t talk like a college perfesser don’t mean he’s a bad guy!” 
KIDDING
…Now, if you want to discuss embarrassment, I was embarrassed by the use the last President had for Cuban Cigars. I was embarrased by his behavior having some little girl
She was 23 or 25, please don’t refer to a not-so-bright intern who falls in love with an older man a “little girl.” No one held a gun to her head and told her to perform certain activities for him, and if they had, I’m sure she would have leaked that info herself, instead of relying on ‘good friends’ to do it for her.
under the table licking his personal parts while he was discussing important life and death business of the country.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Honestly I don’t see how this is more relevant than an accent–<<and if I wanted to get REALLY nit-picky I’d let everyone in on the fact that Bush has a dialect, not an accent–but that’s a whole ‘nother can of somethin’>>–but if you think so, that’s fine. Please don’t bother complaining about pettiness anymore, or we may be forced to bring this up again.
As for some reasons the Europeans didn’t like Bush? No it’s not because they are artistic people who appreciate a “package” that Bush doesn’t present and Clinton did–and why the preoccupation with the package? they disagreed with him on real issues. Just because a group of people–the Europeans in this instance–dsiagree with our leader, it does not stem from their collective shallowness. Perhaps they honestly thought his slashing of the Kyoto accords was a bad move? Maybe they don’t find our insane waste of electricity, gas, and other resources so attractive? Maybe they are insulted by the abuse we put our great expanses of land through? Capital punishment just doesn’t sit well with their sensibilities? The list goes on. Not saying either side is right, but please don’t write off any one who doesn’t wave a flag and scream “Proud to be an American” as someone against logic, especially if they don’t live here! Europe is not shallow, and I can’t imagine that they’d take kindly to be called such.
Also, after all that, I would like to make it known that Fabio is a revolting-looking man who shouldn’t have been permitted to share thread space with the likes of the delectable Jude Law.
Warm cookie and milk anyone?
~KBird
We are either in or going into a recession. More people are being laid off. More unemployment claims are being filed. That means less income tax to the government, and more expenses for unemployment compensation. (The feds pick up a good chunk of those benefits.) If business is in trouble, they aren’t paying taxes either.
The government has called up several thousand reservists with more probably to be called up later. They have to be paid, fed and housed, and will not be paying income tax on their regular salaries. We are in a “long” war against terrorism, with war expenses. We are promising our allies vast sums of money for their cooperation. The feds are paying vast sums of money out for disaster aid.
Farmers have the lowest commodity prices in years. Cotton is selling at 38 cents a pound, the lowest it’s been since the early 80’s. Farmers will be paying fewer taxes, unless they receive government subsidies of one kind of another, which will be further expense to the government.
We’ve just gotten a huge tax cut.
We still don’t have prescription drug benefits for seniors or universally affordable health care.
Bush is proposing another huge tax cut. What’s the rationale?
Re opening a can of worms, should we change that to opening a can of 3-bean salad? i hear that is the “food aid” being dropped…personally, i think that gesture is more for domestic consumption ie by american citizens back home not for any actual good it can do, under the circumstances…ok, flame suit well secured.
I got interrupted while I was writing the above post…perhaps I shouldn’t have lumped “a people” so quickly together with a small percentage of radical religious leaders…
Dubya did emphasize the friendship between USA and Great Britain. However, please note that Great Britain fought unsuccessfully for years in Afghanistan. The country is mountainous desert, think southern Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona mountains. It is extremely difficult to maneuver on foot, and has many hiding places for those on the ground to evade air strikes. Bombing the populated areas will result in heavy civilian casualties, chasing shadows through the mountains will result in the loss of many US soldiers.
F44 - Once a nerd, always a nerd.
bad jokes about donkeys=intellectual banter?? hmmm…
thanks, hobson. you are always a voice of reason.
you don’t have to be a republican, and you don’t have to think that the best course of action is to bomb the hell out of afghanistan to be an patriotic American at this time. I of course want our administration to take action on as many fronts as possible to respond to these attacks, and to try to prevent them in the future. That doesn’t mean that I have faith that George Bush is the best man to lead us through this very messy quagmire. I don’t want a cowboy, I want a smart, thoughtful leader with a nuanced understanding of foreign policy. I don’t think Bush is that leader. (in Maureen Dowd’s column, she noted that during his campaign, when asked what he thought of the Taliban, he thought they were talking about a rock group. I don’t know if it’s true, but I wouldn’t be surprised). He knows a lot about baseball and a little about business, and not a lot about the world beyond America. I thank God that he does have good advisors, and hope he listens to them.
As Hobson pointed out, his use of the word “crusade” in his speech was terrifying… either because he was unaware of the implications that he was declaring war on Islam, or because he was in fact aware of those implications.
Speaking of patriotism, I think that it is unAmerican of those of you who try to silence those who question his approach. Freedom of speech, anyone?
Nice tirade but I wouldn’t waste the emotion to hate those of the likes who criticize the pronounciation of words in what was one of the best speeches, political or otherwise, delivered in a long long time.
Sad but speaks to your life that it took the WTC, Pentagon and downed plane in PA to make your realize that you love this country very, very much.
Regarding what goes on in WASH DC - well the majority of the people in this country feel we would all be better off if we cleaned house their, took you egomaniacs OUT OF THE BELTWAY and told you to get a REAL JOB for a couple of years. POLITICIANS AND THEIR LITTLE PILOT FISH MAKE THE WORST LEADERS!!! JMHO - but then again I’ve had to make a living the old fashioned way - in the PRIVATE SECTOR!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. O’Connor:
Ironic to note that a significant portion of the income of terrorist groups is financed by trading in illegal drugs…perhaps if the war on drugs had been more successful…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Could one of you please clarify something for me? I have read many articles about bin Laden but I have yet to come across any that connect his group with illegal drug funding.
Is this true or have I just not read enough?
And which terrorist groups are suspected of funding themselves through illegal drugs?
Who needs chaps?
I dont’ read People magazine - wouldn’t waste my time on romance novels - and I detest Rush Limbaugh - NOW WHAT’S YOUR SNOTTY RETORT??
What I read doesn’t determine my worth - you seem to feel it does. How I live my life and the values I have is, IMHO, a better yardstick than what’s on the nightstand. I’ve never read in bed - FYI.
I’ll wait to see what creative response you and DMK can come up with now. Tittilating but certainly not educating.
That speech was extraordinary.
I know that Bush has never been a good speaker, but I just wish that inspirational thinking/speaking was something that could be taught.
One as I sit at the ole IMAC each day and night I always listen to the latest updates from MSNBC there is no mention of ebola at all!
I kind of wish there were though . Ebola is a very very contagious disease I don’t suppose a lil’ luck could help us out like a few terrorists contracting this horrible disease.As I say that even I am amazed that I have uttered such a horrid wish for anyone .
TWO Ilona I don’t hide out, my name is on my profile dearie !I also don’t rant and rave at strangers I don’t know.I accept all of the BBers
and their opinions as just that an OPINION I don’t have to agree with anyone nor does anyone have to agree with me . Jeez huney lighten up ok?
You are really becoming a serious drag , and since you have nothing but invectives to toss out you don’t even inform me you just irritate me . Life is too short to waste energy being irritated by you .
In the future I won’t waste my time reading your posts I’ll just scroll right past your name .
No I don’t doubt that we’d disagree on music I do find it funny that two users with names ending in ‘bird’ are arguing however.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Talk about jumping to conclusions and generalizing WOW!
I’m so sorry, I did not know that you were the censor for proper attitudes, isn’t weird I thought that it was possible to express personal opinions from a personal perspective without having my knuckles cracked by the teacher.
I’m not the censor. Who appointed me censor? I just felt a few of your comments could have been rephrased. I’ll keep my mouth shut next time. You are welcome to express your right to free speech, and you may do so, but I will also defend my right to find what you say wrong and I will certainly tell you why I think it’s wrong
Just my opinion of course and I didn’t realize that idea was a taboo. It’s not a taboo, I was using examples of things you had said.
As to whining, I never said I had either a fancy car or furs and jewelry. Your is conclusion based on the fact that you don’t know me at all. In reality I have never felt any need to accumulate the trimmings of apparel or toys.
I also didn’t say you had a fancy car, furs, jewerly–those were hypothetical examples. I recall you making comments about wanting to leave money to your children or using the money you had accumulated to buy things for yourself–which is fine, I do the same. They were imaginary examples you yourself gave, and I was trying to use the same examples to keep a coherent thought. Nothing more. I don’t care if you have a fur coat that you don’t wear for fear of being mugged and I don’t care if you don’t have a fur coat because you are adamtantly anti-fur–it was an example to illustrate a point that obviously failed, because I can’t even remember what I was trying to prove.
My generation is the one who tried I won’t even go into the generation thing because I know I’m wrong there…no matter what I say.
I really always thought that good character, (nice guy), compassion (nice guy) were requirements for someone that we all could trust and depend on. On what basis do we judge intelligence, is it purely on IQ scores and SAT scores or what college someone attended. I’d be really curious to know what exactly was Bill Clinton’s IQ and what is George Bush’s IQ. It’s funny I’ve never heard that mentioned anywhere.
I believe Bill Clinton’s IQ is near 200, someone correct me here–but that matters not you becaue you don’t like him. I personally am not a big fan of George Bush, but it’s more politically-based. I’m not criticizing his accent, shoe size, hair color, choice of terms when giving international speeches–“y’all!?”–his dislike for baby carrots and/or quisches, or his favorite musical perofrmer. I don’t agree with his politics and that’s that. I’s not that I don’t care about compassion, (I do), it’s that I care more about WHAT he says than whether or not he was smiling and acting friendly-like when he said it. Good-natured criticisms of his accent, like what started this thread, are not critiques of the man himself but make light of an aspect of him.
Lighten up Kellybird
If you knew me you wouldn’t have to tell me this
it’s a long perilous life we all live and so far we are entitled to make our judgments for the quality of that life. As to the use of the word “dummie”, it was a exageration of a concept which obviously you didn’t understand, at least not in that context.
[I]Trust me, Snowbird, I understood what you meant. Being in the ‘high’ reading group, I’ve had to tutor the “low” reading group kids and I would never, ever EVER say dummy. Ever. It’s rude, unecessary, and doesn’t help anyone. I know you didn’t mean it to make fun of anyone, but you never know who’s reading this and I would like to think that you could set an examply for us doomed youth who don’t have your wisdom and life experience. Would you want us all to start calling each other names? My problem is not with the word “dummy,” it’s with your blithe disregard for others take the things you have to say.
As much as I know you’d like to think otherwise, I understood all you euphemisms, metaphors, similes, stories, and anecdotes. Your use of the word “dummy” wasn’t polite, and whether or not it was used in good fun, I would hope that you would consider how that could be taken. I know you stand for personal freedom, but there is a point at which your personal freedom encroaches on soemone else’s well-being and you have to step back and maybe not say everything in such a “joking”–joking to you, serious to others–way.[/I]
These students each had a private tutor at no cost to anyone and with the benefit that the tutor learns to be a responsible member of a community and has all the pleasure and gratification of feeling that they accomplished something really worthwhile when the student they tutored got better grades. They had the opportunity to get to know someone who they otherwise might have overlooked if they were isolated in their own room away from the mainstream.
Did I say isolate the smart ones?? Snowbird, I am one of the ‘smart ones’–according to the criteria for gifted education in our school district, for what that’s worth and I would never want to be isolated from the mainstream. I didn’t say to lock the gifted ones up in a room to solve astrophysics problems, I personally think that would be a tragedy and a veritable hell. My point was just that we always defend the mediocre and mock intelligence. Why? To my mind it seems that the goal would be to strive for excellence, especially with something liek intellignce. Maybe I’m too young and naive and I should spend more time trying to be like your generation. 
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Ok, I’m done for now…pardon me while I go look for some blank picket signs…
~KBird
