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Bush opens up a can of whoop a$$

Bush Says Lawmakers Leak Secrets,
Restricts Access and Then Offers Truce
By Carolyn Skorneck Associated Press Writer
Published: Oct 10, 2001
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush, in a breakfast meeting with chastened lawmakers Wednesday, backed off his decision severely restricting congressional briefings on the war against terrorists. Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota pledged that members of Congress were committed to handling sensitive information with “more discipline and greater discretion.”
“The president’s made his point. We all are going to be careful,” said Senate Republican Leader Trent Lott of Mississippi.
Bush, the lawmakers said, offered a truce: Congressional committees on armed services and foreign relations will continue to be briefed on anti-terror diplomatic and military operations. Bush “also authorized others to come and share information with the general membership about the operations ongoing in Afghanistan,” Daschle said.
The administration will maintain a distinction between operational secrecy and “oversight, overview information that Congress needs to do its job,” said White House press secretary Ari Fleischer.
In what has become a weekly breakfast huddle with the president, Lott, Daschle, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., and House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt, D-Mo., met at the White House Wednesday to discuss with Bush his angry accusation that lawmakers leaked secrets to the news media last week, just before the U.S. attacks on Afghanistan.
Those leaks prompted Bush to order his Cabinet secretaries, CIA director and FBI director to brief only the four congressional leaders plus the chairmen and vice chairmen of the intelligence committees.
“I intend to protect our troops,” the president said Tuesday, when asked about the order outlined in an Oct. 5 memo.
“It is unacceptable behavior to leak classified information when we have troops at risk.”
Just after Bush made that statement during an appearance in the Rose Garden, one lawmaker who would be barred from the briefings, California Rep. Tom Lantos of California, top Democrat on the House International Relations Committee, showed the president a law that requires the State Department to keep his panel and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee “fully and currently informed with respect to all activities and responsibilities within the jurisdiction of these committees.”
And Daschle on Tuesday had insisted Congress must be able to carry out its constitutional oversight role, and that means several committees must get secret information.
Speaking outside the White House Wednesday, Lott agreed that information on the anti-terror operations and their effectiveness “is the sort of thing we need to know to know how we can be prepared for the future.”
Rep. Bob Stump, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said he had no objection to being excluded from the top secret briefings.
“My philosophy is the fewer people who know about some of these things, the better off we are,” Stump, R-Ariz., said in an interview Tuesday. “I firmly believe in the need to know. Many times, there really is no need to know.”
A few grumbled, however, at potentially being kept out of the loop.
“I understand there may be some heartburn on Capitol Hill,” Bush said, “but I suggest if they want to relieve that heartburn they take their positions very seriously, and that they take any information that they’ve been given by our government very seriously because this is serious business we’re talking about.”

I would love to know which congress person opened their big mouth to the media. They should not be allowed to be re-elected when the time comes.
As the ol’ saying goes…“loose lips sinks ships”

Whatever it was, I think it did not respond to the concept of air travel in a polite way. I just can’t remember what actually happened…guess I’ll knuckle under to trivial curiosity and do a search on pig/airliner…

I can not believe I am spending time doing this on such an otherwise (mostly) serious thread…but in the interest of following up on another posters (haa Betsy, now I’ve credited you with responsibility for this goose-I mean, pork chase) here is what I found:

<U.S. officials investigate case of flying pig

Oct 30, 2000 - (courtesy of Reuters - preserved here for posterity!!!)

The Federal Aviation Administration said on Monday its investigators are trying to sort through a bizarre series of events that allowed a 300-pound (135 kg) pig to fly first-class aboard a nonstop US Airways flight from Philadelphia to Seattle.? The pig boarded US Airways Flight 107 on Oct. 17 with its two women owners and 198 other human passengers, and slept for most of the six-hour flight.

But the animal went hog wild as the Boeing 757 taxied to the terminal in Seattle. The squealing beast ran through the plane, discharging feces as it went, and tried to get into the cockpit before taking refuge in the aircraft’s food galley. The pig was last seen being hauled off the plane and into an airport elevator by its two owners and another passenger.

It will not happen again,'' promised US Airways spokesman David Castelveter.? FAA investigators were expected to examine the flight's passenger list and interview every crew member on board the plane. We’d like to know how a 300-pound pig flew first class,’’ said FAA spokesman Jim Peters. ``We’re looking into all aspects – safety and compliance and sanitation. We want to know what the company’s animal policy is.’’

The Philadelphia Daily News, which first reported the strange tale, said the owners got permission to take their unruly pet aboard the flight by producing a doctor’s note that described the pig as a 13-pound (5.8 kg) "service animal,’’ like a seeing-eye dog. They also bought the pig a ticket.?At first, flight attendants tried to stow the pig in the rear of the plane but found that it blocked an emergency exit. So they opted to wedge the animal between seats 1A and 1C in the first-class section instead.

US Airways said it will allow passengers to board with dogs, cats and birds as free baggage, but only if the animals are small enough to fit under a seat in a container. There are exceptions for larger canines that serve as guide dogs for the blind, however.

Updated : November 29, 2000

USAirways did nothing wrong when it allowed a pig to fly first class from Philadelphia to Seattle in October, the Federal Aviation Administration found. Maria Tirotta Andrews, the pig?s owner, brought the 300-pound Vietnamese pot-bellied pig named Charlotte onto the Boeing 757 on Oct. 17, saying it was a therapeutic companion pet. ?USAirways and its personnel acted in a reasonable and thoughtful manner, based on a legitimate request to transport a qualified individual with a disability and her service animal,? said FAA spokesman Jim Peters. Andrews said she has a heart condition so severe that she needs the companionship of her pig to relieve stress.>>?

[This message was edited by M. O’Connor on Oct. 15, 2001 at 11:59 AM.]

<<New Yawk and Lawn-Guy-Lind>>

LOL Erin! I felt much the same way, even though I was only 45 min from home at SUNY Stony Brook–you see, speech patterns on the East End of Long Island for the most part have much more in common with those of New England than with those of our up-Island and City neighbors --we got the “terra” thing right away!

Great speech, indeed, though I share Brilyntrip’s trepidation about exactly what we are now in for–the peace protests are already gearing up, in all likelihood envisioning wars of the past, which this one of the future promises to resemble not at all. The only thing missing from the mandate is a parallel all-out attack on the root causes of the discontent that leads to such outrageously depraved behaviors. Until these are addressed, the task we have now set course on will not be completed, and in fact will always need to be perpetuated…

wow…excellent post…more than excellent…intelligent and insitefull…made me glad to come to the board for a change!

If you are afraid that the bully next door will damage your property or hurt you and you make excuses to try an be sympathetic is it because you really care or because you hope that if he thinks you care he will skip your house and take on a neighbor.

There will always be excuses and reasons for evil behavior. That is so long as we are not held responsible for our actions. Blame the economy, blame a cruel father, blame an indifferent mother, blame the weather, blame the twinkies suger reaction, blame everyone and everything that caused the bad behavior but the person and you don’t help them, you encourage them that they have no control. Remember the wife beaters who say it was the wife’s fault because she got them angry.

The truth is that all these “grey” tone excuses are just that and it doesn’t change the facts. Lots of people came from bad backgrounds and didn’t become serial killers. Many believe and practice their religion under Islam and are good neighbors. If I remember correctly Mohammed Ali refused to be a soldier in the army because Islam made him a pacifist. So how do we then blame Islam for murderers?

When people have been left uneducated, when they have been pummeled and stripped of their own humanity yes! they are victims and defenseless. Would they be willing to die so their children can be free, I’ll bet on it.

The fact is there is no moral excuse for sociopathic behavior. This BB has gone off into abstract tangents totally unrelated to the issue or the possible solutions.

No one is suggesting that we bomb Afghanistan into oblivion our President has taken the first step, follow the money trail. We’ll see if we can dry up the money and how will they survive. Will we drive them out of their holes?

If it doesn’t work we take the next steps. Our President said this war would be like no other war. No reason yet not to believe him, no reason to suspect Christians will have a war with Islam.

The simple fact is that those fundamentalists who follow Bin Laden really believe that our life style defiles the earth so that Allah will not look kindly on their world. They really believe that women must not be educated. They really believe that women should never be seen by anyone.

They believe that our mere existence is a polution of the world Allah wants them to provide. They really believe that in order for Allah to be satisifed and bless their lives they are obligated to remove all life styles but theirs from the face of the earth.

In order to comply with what they believe they will sterilze the earth with bacterial warfare. They will sterilize the world with atomic warfare and Allah will save them because they are pure.

Adolph Hitler felt the same way. Except in his case it was the Aryan nation and not Islam. Hitler believed that we are all mongrels of the world that we are pollution of the world. Anyone who was not pure Aryan was an insult to God.

At that time we could not believe that someone could persuade enough people of such nonsense and then he owned Europe. Even then we took the blame we said we had been too harsh after the first World War so we appeased and we collaborated and we capitulated until we saw all the final horror.

We did not create the state of Israel, it was Great Britain who owned Palestine and after their experience with Adolph and the exposure of the extermination camps the world knew there had to be a place where Jews would always be safe. We owed them that because of the 6 million who had died in an attempt to exterminate them from this world.

My goodness, sssurely we owed the Jews that much, we do more for the endangered species of animals and flora. We let Califormia burn to save some dumb little desert rat. We prevent construction here to save a mud turtle. We spend millions to repopulate the world with other species of animal and surely we owed at least that to the Jews who died for no reason except Hitler decided they were a pollutant.

Do not ever be tricked into believing that if there was no Isreal we would all be safe. These people would still consider us the infidels and the reason that Allah does not bless them. Isreal has proved that the desert can bloom again. We have proved that people thrive on freedom and justice. We are both equally guilty of demeaning their personal view of Allah.

[This message was edited by Snowbird on Sep. 24, 2001 at 10:33 PM.]

And I cannot possibly argue politics.

But…from my friend who was touring Washington D.C. she said they had toured the CIA,(or was it the FBI?), and she asked the tour guide what they were doing about the war on drugs.

He answered that they were not doing as much about the war on drugs, and all their efforts were towards terrorism!!???

Strange answer to be giving on September 10.
JMHO

Well I can only hope :

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Tittilating but certainly not educating. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There’s very little educational value to be gleaned when the word’s misspelt.

I imagine it will be quite difficult to find Bin Laden. Apparently, Afghanistan is full of caves and such, as well as rugged terrain. I also understand a very severe sand storm is happening in the north (where the resistance is fighting). I have also read that winters are quite severe…
Hopefully, they will have enough technology and forces to find him. It is a lot like when they searched for Eric Rudolph in the NC mountains. Like finding a needle in a haystack. Hopefully, Bin Laden will continue to travel in an entourage, so he is more easily detectable by satellite etc. Does anyone know if he is a “survivalist” who, like Rudolph, could survive in the wilds by himself?

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

I think what Mary migt be trying to say now is that sh eis stretsched pretty thin now , I lik eher don’t like putting things on cedit cards if I can’t pay for them .Many of us depend on teaching lessons judging or stewarding shows for income .Many people in the states are cutting way back so don’t thrash her OK???

ohnowwhat…yes I have considered it, but the idea of so much hate mail clogging my hotmail account kind of scares me.

~KBird

halfhalt-
I agree that it is a bad thing to only get the gvt. version… unfortunately, it is also a bad thing that the press is in the way of the people trying to do their job.
Maybe they can have strict guidelines with where the press can and can not go?

War is really complex, even more so than I thought… Do you allow reporters? Will dropping food bombs help us or hurt us? Everything can have such huge consequences - it’s almost like you can’t win, which I guess is why they say nobody really wins a war, which makes me wonder why we keep having them. Does anybody think that we as a society will ever get beyond using force and violence to solve our problems?

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

Magnolia - sorry for the slow response - and can you IMAGINE, the conversation has moved on from Twinkies in 24 hours. And I’m not sure if it was sugar high or specific Twinkie toxins which were blamed.
For anybodybody who knows the song often sung at protests -Or at least it was in the 80’s and early 90’s- “We are a gentle angry people, singing for our lives” - that was written in response to the verdict and rioting.
Now, back to our regularly schedule Pig Patrol Plan…

I mean really this country is loaded with people who have accents and who are courageous enough to learn our language to communicate with us.

Does it really matter in the big scheme of things? Every President has had speech writers, people picked on Ronald Reagen because his speeches were so perfect because he was an actor, now you don’t have a packaged salesman but a down to earth human like Harry Truman and you still pick…pick…pick. Don’t complain if all you get are managed and packaged candidates who don’t resemble their advertising if sound bites and presentation is more important than ideas and proposals. I’m surprised you haaven’t found anything wrong with his suit, or his tie or maybe even the way he walks. OH! wasn’t there a hair out of place (so distracting).

This was not a rabble rousing speech from a cheerleader, this was a statement of policy by the President of the United States of America. If you agree with the policy then leave it alone and if you don’t then disagree with the policy and say why and what you prefer as a way to solve the problem of our dead and missing due to an attack in our home. No risk no gain!

As to Canada my guess is that Canada is considered a member of the family. I don’t think they felt that since you were a neighbor and a part of our continent that was an understood. The thank-you went across the pond to other members of the world. Please don’t take it personally just as we in New Jersey and those from Connecticut who were all involved with the WTC did not feel offended because New York got all the attention.

They also did not emphasize the remarkable job done because 25,000 people were evacuated and only 6,000 were victims. There were over a 1000 that were nationals from other countries and they suffered losses too, they were not itemized. If he ahd then you’d all be complaining because the speech was long and boring.

[This message was edited by Snowbird on Sep. 21, 2001 at 12:53 PM.]

Well you’ve climbed out on the limb so I’ll start up the saw. Hillary Clinton was standing next to Senator Schumer of NY - the contrast in behavior and reaction was astounding. Also if Hillary Clinton was privy to national security issues it was a violation of national security but not a surprise to those of us who believed she was one of Bill Clinton’s directors. The “raghead” comment is yours - and stays where it lies - in the gutter.

Laura Bush was there and her concern and serious focus was without question. It was evident even to anyone watching that she was holding back tears at the end of the speech.

Also Richard Nixon DID resign for the good of the country. Bill Clinton DID not and his legacy is the overwhelming increase in oral sex among 10 year olds and above …defending their behavior under the banner that “oral sex isn’t sex”. Richard Nixon erred in judgement, was outed and LEFT. Bill Clinton erred in just about every way he could, debated the definition of what “is” is and STAYED. Interesting that he had to call Bush to send a plane for him in Australia - probably because he was afraid for his own butt. We put a plane in the air to Australia with government employees at taxpayer cost at a time when we couldn’t get family members whose relatives were killed to NY or WASH. He could have waited in Australia under protection - that is always with him - and returned at an appropriate time. Sorry I believe the guy is an empty suit.

Hillary Clinton doesn’t have a clue what to do. She talks the talk but has never walked the walk and now she has to show true leadership for the people of NY and be SELFLESS - a concept foreign to her - and on national television when even nay sayers were showing genuine support for the President she acted like the sour pussed runner up for Homecoming Queen. I’m sure you can find someone who has the tape - the faked hand clapping was perhaps the worst part of it.

You can debate R vs D as long as you want. I want to see when you will focus on the reality that this is a war of freedom vs. terrorism, leadership vs. posturing and right vs. wrong.

Israel was hit pretty hard by the attacks,
because so many Israelis have connections in NY.
I know about 8 to 10 people here who lost
relatives or close friends in the WTC or on the
planes. So there is great grief and anger.
No one knows what is going to happen, and on
the “always fighting the last war” principle
people are running to get their gas masks
updated (for the benefit of the youngsters, in
the last Gulf War everyone had gas masks for
fear of SoDamn Insane’s chemical weapons. Gas
masks are disgusting).

What do we think should be done? Lordy, we’ve been trying to find a way of stopping terrorists
without killing innocent bystanders for years! It
is not that easy! But I gotta confess that we
(or at least a lot of people I know, I’m not
talking for the foreign office here) are a little
cynical about this big coalition that’s getting
put together. I mean Syria and Iran are going to
fight terrorism? When my horse guards the carrot
sack, guys.

So that’s the postcard from the middle east. we
now return to the usually scheduled squabbling.

–s.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I guess you need to figure out what it was in my childhood that made me so self sufficient and individualistic. Well, I never starved and I was never abused and I had a good education that made me know I was the captain of my ship and responsible for my own life. I would like it if everyone had the same confidence and pleasure. It’s the greatest feeling in the world.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Snowbird, you continue to return to this sort of self-laudatory nonsense. Let me draw it to your attention, once again, that there are quite a few posters on this BB who also fit your description, but who nonetheless thoroughly disagree with your political views.

I’m happy you feel so good about yourself. Now, can we continue with more substantive discussion?

I mostly read Clancy types and murder mysteries. I wonder what that says about moi? We’ll ignore my rows of Claire Darcy’s, Georgette Heyers, et al hidden behind my old polical science and econ text books (including Marxism - my paper is still required reading in that subject - who would have thought! ) in the bookcase upstairs. Hmmmmm

And I still need to get my hands on a certain book for it’s cover…

Gee whiz, Snowbird, there are children reading this board!

(Monica was a grown adult at the time, btw…let’s not try to frighten the young’uns too much!)

ding, ding…

Round 2


There is no crying in baseball!!!

Irregardless of the actual number, rest assured Billy Clinton is smarter than most of the population. Perhaps it’s a question of personal preference, but for me, it’s rather reassuring that the (former) President of the United States is smarter than the guy who fixes my cable modem.