Business As Usual

[spirithorse]

Equine abuse

2004, Washington State Supreme Court issues a ruling that includes a firm legal definition of horse abuse. This ruling does directly effect every state…and Penn can be sued because of their statement and fiduciary responsibilities to the horses.

: held in 118 Wn. App. 730, State v. Zawistowski, that Webster’s Third New International Dictionary 1621 (1969) definition of “pain” as "a state of physical or mental lack of well-being or physical or mental uneasiness that ranges from mild discomfort or dull distress to acute often unbearable agony."

[judybigredpony]

[QUOTE=frugalannie;5104937]
Profidia and Judy, I salute you for keeping these issues in front of the COTH audience. No snark at all. Really sincere admiration.[/QUOTE]

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=spirithorse;5105050]
2004, Washington State Supreme Court issues a ruling that includes a firm legal definition of horse abuse. This ruling does directly effect every state…and Penn can be sued because of their statement and fiduciary responsibilities to the horses.

: held in 118 Wn. App. 730, State v. Zawistowski, that Webster’s Third New International Dictionary 1621 (1969) definition of “pain” as "a state of physical or mental lack of well-being or physical or mental uneasiness that ranges from mild discomfort or dull distress to acute often unbearable agony."[/QUOTE]

You lost me on this one. What is it you were trying to convey?

[spirithorse]

Any person in any state can use this ruling to file suit against any person who is abusing horses…in any manner which meets the descriptions contained therein the ruling.

So, if Penn National is not enforcing its own policies, an injunction can be issued…etc.,

[Laurierace]

Not a chance in hell. Penn National never laid a hand on any horse. Their policy is not a law therefore they are under no burden to enforce it. God forbid they did actually find a lawyer dumb enough to take the case if they were successful it would put an end to the industry as a whole forever. THEN where would all the horsies go?

[spirithorse]

Well, under the law, Penn National has stipulated a policy stating that stall revokation and banning would be instituted…though they tried to place full responsibility upon the horsemen…they are in legal jeopardy.

[Laurierace]

Yeah, I don’t think so.

[On_the_Farm]

[QUOTE=spirithorse;5105653]
Any person in any state can use this ruling to file suit against any person who is abusing horses…in any manner which meets the descriptions contained therein the ruling.

So, if Penn National is not enforcing its own policies, an injunction can be issued…etc.,[/QUOTE]

I can think of more than a few boarding/lesson facilities that would better fit that criteria than Penn.

[judybigredpony]

OK who on here has any concret knowledge about whats going on with the “New” Rescue program.

Seems we’ve deviated off the Path of Light.

Did they get $$ and those barns rented?? Talk was of 2?

I know there have been 2 meetings (got invited to #2 but bad timing)

What is going on are horses still sliding thru the cracks?

While Ms B is at CT…not sure if she’s still there ? will check.
Know she can not have her Fav KB haul any off. Those guys are banned from entering CT gates.

Of course it doesn’t mean they can’t meet off site.

And with DD and the hidden ownership stuff…how does one keep selling TB for $1.00 and swap owners so casually, isn’t there an IRS trail if $$ won??

[Profidia]

@Me;5099963

Now we have Sir Togo entered in the 5th and One Big Cat in the 6th on the 19th at Philly. Again these horses are Delahoussaye’s with Michael Caraman of Florida being good enough to serve as program trainer. These guys can certainly run rings around the fools in the racing offices all day long as they’ve done for years but it gets decidedly more difficult if the entire racing community rats out every move they make. I’m sure Dickie has his eye on it.:winkgrin:

Sir Togo was allowed to run, One Big Cat was steward scratched. One out of two ain’t bad. Especially for PHRC.

[system]

There’s no races nothing like work even if you compare this to all other games.Work is just really a motion where a things move.Though horses will just at side walk and wait for the horse racing tip chief. We have to go and try our luck at the race.

[Profidia]

[QUOTE=Me;5108970]
Sir Togo was allowed to run, One Big Cat was steward scratched. One out of two ain’t bad. Especially for PHRC.[/QUOTE]
Here we have another one for the esteemed members of the PA Horse Racing Commission to look into…

Saturday September 25 @ Philadelphia Park
Lycurgus in Race 1
Dubinsky in Race 2
Lunch Money in Race 6

Oh wait, breaking news, we have another one,
Sunday September 26 @ Philadelphia Park
Smokeys Soldier in Race 5

Budrewicz was suspended for the same nonsense guys. Caraman lives in Florida. Has he ever seen any of these horses? Can he tell anybody what color any of them are?
Has this guy ever saddled a horse in his life? Or passed a trainers test anywhere? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Profidia]

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;5106770]

While Ms B is at CT…not sure if she’s still there ? will check.
Know she can not have her Fav KB haul any off. Those guys are banned from entering CT gates.

Of course it doesn’t mean they can’t meet off site.[/QUOTE]
True, and because of these new rules it’s been forced into secrecy. In the past there was a guy that came to every track about once a week to take horses away to the sales. Since this is no longer allowed one needs to just hang around any track the grapevine will tell you who to talk to about getting rid of horses. Is usually a guy who tells you he has a buyer that runs a “camp” or a “4H club”. It gives the trainer plausible deniability and it gets rid of the horse.

And with DD and the hidden ownership stuff…how does one keep selling TB for $1.00 and swap owners so casually, isn’t there an IRS trail if $$ won??

Matter of fact there is. And word has it that the IRS is looking pretty hard at a few folks at that track. Is a huge amount of cash business going on with that barn which can be traced back to Michael Gill. Has anybody ever seen an outfit pay stall rent for 20+ stalls at a training center all in cash every month? These guys do. He’s not out of the deal by a longshot. His name is even on DDs barn equipment!
This brings us full circle right back to the beginning of this marathon long thread. If this man was ever out of the deal we wouldn’t be seeing as much of this stuff.

[Profidia]

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;5104912]
Well he is kinda hard to disguise???
[/QUOTE]Yeah that he is Judy. Nonetheless there hasn’t been a DD sighting for a while but his rig was spotted at the recieving barn this morning @ 10:53am.:eek: It was later seen parked by one of the barns going up the hill. Business as usual:yes::rolleyes:

[QUOTE=frugalannie;5104937]Profidia and Judy, I salute you for keeping these issues in front of the COTH audience. No snark at all. Really sincere admiration.[/QUOTE]Thanks much Annie

[judybigredpony]

Well should we Shelock Holmes it to Cheeseburger Paradise
Or cluck in a Bucket.
Maybe he is on the “biggest Loser” in disguise??

So how does one go about getting a Trainers License, live in another part of the planet and have horses saddled in your name??
Who follows the $$ trail and who picks up the checks??

Is the word Laundry part of this scenario??

A question?? Not from me…but today heard word going round thru us OTTB buyers/sellers that Penn Trainers can’t give away horses right now??

Is this in part due to the 3 visit a year an your out rule.
For those frequent buyers who don’t have a license or access to getting one has this made it a problem?

And hey don’t give me lip servie about they can take the horse off the track to a farm so you can buy it. Alot of these horses have to keep running until they get sold.
The rule doesn’t affect me, but some frequent buyers it will.
The new program being set up thru “New Vocations” isn’t going to affect the CANTER buyers.
But if you can only go look 3X year it puts a damper on shopping expeditions…

[Profidia]

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;5113485]

So how does one go about getting a Trainers License, live in another part of the planet and have horses saddled in your name??
Who follows the $$ trail and who picks up the checks??[/QUOTE]
Every state has different rules as far as testing. If one is too stupid to pass a trainers test in their home state, they only need go to someplace with no testing, get licensed, come home and with reciprocity they’ll get licensed. Kentucky and Florida are the two worst for this by having no testing and being the #1 and #2 TB states. Many of us are hopeful that the Jockey Club Summit will do something about this. They recognize this is a problem and are working on this issue right now as we speak. IMO requiring a trainer of record to be present and saddle the horse would solve a lot of these problems. I’m realistic enough to know that will never happen which is why more importantly there needs to be a centralized governing body of racing nationwide with federal oversight. This would protect what little shred of integrity this “sport” still has left.

Is the word Laundry part of this scenario??
Absolutely.

A question?? Not from me…but today heard word going round thru us OTTB buyers/sellers that Penn Trainers can’t give away horses right now??
Also true

Is this in part due to the 3 visit a year an your out rule.
For those frequent buyers who don’t have a license or access to getting one has this made it a problem?
Not sure I’m familiar with that rule but the new eligibility rules for competing have certainly exascerbated the problem.

And hey don’t give me lip servie about they can take the horse off the track to a farm so you can buy it. Alot of these horses have to keep running until they get sold.
The rule doesn’t affect me, but some frequent buyers it will.
The new program being set up thru “New Vocations” isn’t going to affect the CANTER buyers.
But if you can only go look 3X year it puts a damper on shopping expeditions…

I know of one on canter that last I looked had over 1700 hits. 3 phone calls and one visit.Horse was dumped on trainer by a non-paying owner. Horse has never made a dime, costs money every day. Is ineligible to run at Penn or CT. Is perfectly sound, never taken a lame step. Is priced fairly, nobody wants him. This horse costs money every day. In the past at least a trainer could go to a sale and get rid of one like this. Now because that option isn’t available just what’n hell is a trainer supposed to do? Before you say how easy you place all of yours let me say I know who you are and I know your operation. Not everybody has your connections amongst show people to be able to do that. Meanwhile trainers often get stuck with them which makes a hard way to make a living even harder. If you might be interested in him send me a PM;)

[Profidia]

Now They’re Taking Control Of SHRP?

I really wish Texans would come visit Penn National before agreeing to a deal like this:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/58998/penn-national-acquires-sam-houston-interest
I can think of nothing anywhere that these people have ever improved:o:no:

[judybigredpony]

Give horse to me I’ll get him a home not a grave…

Oh and your mare is doing VERY WELL

[leilatigress]

Sam Houston Park runs decently if not perfectly. Its more a concert venue than an actual race track. Their gates are a bit more regulated than others but the Kill Buyers still get in and out with not many issues. We don’t have a rescue operation operated through the track but LOPE takes care of most of it.
Most of the issues with Texas racing is lack of purse money and hard core betters. I doubt they will make the transition to gaming slots but they passed the state lotto so who knows.
Either way I will have to watch the news and see if/when they put it up for vote. Technically parts of SHRP are not actually in Houston its out in the County which makes laws hazy at best.
I have no idea if Lope’s Lynn even frequents these boards. I am sure she’s aware of what’s going on just not sure what her feelings if any are on it. I’d like to see the actual business plan before I pass judgment on it.

[judybigredpony]

Just When You Thought You’ve Seen Everything

What in the Sam Hill was going on in the round sand riding ring the other morning…the one on your right as you drive in??

Looked like it was Rodeo day…or circus day??

I thought your horses had to be broke before they came onto the track??

The bucking rearing lunging plunging screaming yelling whipping…almost like a Cowboy breaking session.:yes:

Not sure I caught the beginning or end???