Business As Usual

Well they can’t even cover the cost of boarding 1 horse for 1 week when they are selling them for $400.

If they are taking the cream off the top…of the horses offered they certainly should be able to attract a better clientele and get more $$ for the Uber Elite horses.

How many are they selling…out of how many in the PA program compared to how many on CANTER…this si so bogus and such a shame

What they could have done w/ the $$ and

WHAT THEY COULD BE DOING FOR THE HORSES

Sending them to already Established Re-sellers. People with rings, clientele, advertising, riders in place. For flat monthly stipend. Getting a Farrier and Vet on board for some Pro Bono or reduced rate work. Keep it under strict controls, and using the sale profits…haha…and other monies to have a real retirerment place would have made so much more sense…and way less $$ for Administration fees.

Why does Penn always seem to be left at the dock watching the ship sail???

IF I was in charge of this program I would accept every horse regardless of condition. Anything less that accepting every horse defeats the purpose. Granted some would be euthanized but that would be because it was what was best for the horse, not what is best for the program’s bottom line. With a guaranteed stream of revenue plus the money garnered from adopting out the adoptable ones there is no reason to settle for anything less. There are a lot of rescues doing the very same thing to the best of their ability without the guaranteed funds.

I always feel as though it is a double edge sword with adoption groups. For example, CANTER MA has gotten some flak about the prices of retraining horses because they are too expensive? I’m a volunteer so I don’t make any decisions but I do think CANTER MA has a program that really works and generates money back to the program so in the long run a large quanity of horses is helped. I know Mid Atlantic Horse Rescue (Bev and Ginny) operate the same way.

As a volunteer I don’t say CANTER is a rescue because racehorses don’t need to be rescued (the majority). CANTER sells the horses for market value because they have put the time into them to make them worth market value- they are well started and have mileage on them. They have had worming, dental, chiro and farrier work. They know what they have and who those horses will fit. The horses are sound or have minor injuries that are disclosed.

Again I don’t make the decisions but I do know that CANTER MA tries to take horses that can be rehomed with pasture rest or minor surgeries and for the most part does not take horses that will not be able to have riding careers. Financially you have to be responsible and CANTER gets funding via grants, donations and some funding from the various tracks but overall the funding is not enough to pay for horses that can not be rehomed. Euthanasia cost $450 (farm call, actual euthansia and body removal). I’m pro euthansia but speaking from a personal level I do not want to be the dumping grounds for people who did not accept responsiblity for the problem THEY created.

Laurie- think about how hard it is to rehome a horse with a minor issue. If you had a barn full of those you couldn’t even take sound horses because you would never have the room because you would be stuck with all the unsound horses.

Judy- I think the crux is that when you run a big organization and don’t own your own facility you end up paying other people to care for the horses. I don’t know how New Vocations does it but I know CANTER’S horses are all boarded at private farms at various cost levels. If you start at $200 a month for field board and then add trims, dental and any vet bills that adds up.

How do the retrainers get paid? Speaking from experience I truly don’t think someone is going to want that job as an income producing job. Sometimes the horses get sold quickly but what happens when you put 3 months in and realize oh no the horse has a soundness issue and all your time is worthless? Or the horse hates jumping and only wants to be a flatwork only horse? I could go on and on but it is way more difficult than it sounds on paper.

I always feel as though it is a double edge sword with adoption groups. For example, CANTER MA has gotten some flak about the prices of retraining horses because they are too expensive? I’m a volunteer so I don’t make any decisions but I do think CANTER MA has a program that really works and generates money back to the program so in the long run a large quantity of horses is helped. I know Mid Atlantic Horse Rescue (Bev and Ginny) operate the same way.

As a volunteer, I don’t say CANTER is a rescue because racehorses don’t need to be rescued (the majority). CANTER sells the horses for market value because they have put the time into them to make them worth market value- they are well started and have mileage on them. They have had worming, dental, chiro and farrier work. They know what they have and who those horses will fit. The horses are sound or have minor injuries that are disclosed.

Again, I don’t make the decisions but I do know that CANTER MA tries to take horses that can be rehomed with pasture rest or minor surgeries and for the most part does not take horses that will not be able to have riding careers. Financially you have to be responsible and CANTER gets funding via grants, donations and some funding from the various tracks but overall the funding is not enough to pay for horses that cannot be rehomed. Euthanasia cost $450 (farm call, actual euthanasia and body removal). I’m pro euthanasia but speaking from a personal level I do not want to be the dumping grounds for people who did not accept responsibility for the problem THEY created.

Laurie- think about how hard it is to rehome a horse with a minor issue. If you had a barn full of those you couldn’t even take sound horses because you would never have the room because you would be stuck with all the unsound horses. The majority of people who call to ask about donation are people wanting to donate unsound horse because they have no other options. Hate to say but many of those calls are on horses that should be put down.

I have to network my butt off to convince people to donate horses that are sound because the reality is they can get $$ for them instead so why give them to a rehoming group? I believe that one of the main reasons CANTER MA (at least Delaware Park where I volunteer) gets sound horses is because we do a good job for the trainers. We let them know if the horses don’t sell off the listings we will take them on donation if they are sound or have minor issues we can rehab them for. We tell them they can ship them to the farm, we provide tax reciepts, tell them about our farms, let them know we retrain and follow up when horses are sold and that they don’t have to deal with the general public. Many trainers have figured out it is easier to just ship the horse to us than to show the horse to a lot of tirekickers who don’t know what they are looking for. It is also personal because they see our group of volunteers on a weekly basis so it’s not some stranger showing up in the barn asking to take their nice horses. We write about them in our blogs, make phone calls and follow up via email. Horses don’t just drop off the map or get pushed out the door. They are given minimal of 2 months off to just be horses. It takes funding but it is the right way to do things.

Judy- I think the crux is that when you run a big organization and don’t own your own facility you end up paying other people to care for the horses. I don’t know how New Vocations does it but I know CANTER’S horses are all boarded at private farms at various cost levels. If you start at $200 a month for field board and then add trims, dental and any vet bills that adds up. I have asked to have discounts from vets, farriers, dentist and chiro’s but that often does not happen. They have to make a living to.

How do the retrainers get paid? Speaking from experience I truly don’t think someone is going to want that job as an income producing job. Sometimes the horses get sold quickly but what happens when you put 3 months in and realize oh no the horse has a soundness issue and all your time is worthless? Or the horse hates jumping and only wants to be a flatwork only horse? I could go on and on but it is way more difficult than it sounds on paper.

I love how in that document they say on CANTER and TRF can help when the trainers are giving them $$$ to operate THEIR program. I realize that is not the right way to operate this program when all trainers are contributing but how do you operate without going broke?

These are questions all of these groups are being faced with. I have seen changes in CANTER in the past several years as the funding dried up and number of unsound horses grew. Successful groups have to somehow make the numbers work.

I do think that since trainers/owners are funding this, that more than the cream of the crop need to be “eligible” for it - but at the same time I don’t see how any program could realistically function to take them all, either. Even if the worst cases were euthanized, IMO that should have been the responsibility of the race connections to begin with.

But even after that, finding homes for horses less than 100% sound is HARD. Insanely hard. At some point, either space or money runs out, and then what?

This issue is so, so hard.

My main problem with this is the foisting off on others the “problems” - hey, we can’t take that horse, so call someone else that’s getting no funding.

If they’re going to recommend or network to other groups, those other groups need to get a piece of the pie, so to speak. Otherwise it’s just “dumping” the problems off on others (and essentially taking money from people while offering them no benefit).

Like I said earlier, I totally understand saying no to horses who aren’t going to be easy to place. Heck I wrote a whole blog entry about it last summer. But when the people who own those horses are contributing to a retirement fund that they can’t use, that tastes icky to me. And then to say, “hey call those other people” leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Especially knowing how hard it can be to get a horse into the TRF.

If the purpose of this whole thing was to provide a real safety net for horses that might end up at slaughter… I don’t see it working real well. Now MAYBE it will encourage people not to race that one last time, or inject one more time, because they start to realize there’s no place for that horse to go if they do. Maybe.

I’m not sure I have an answer on a better way to do it. But if all the trainers and owners are paying into this fund, and then when they need help only a few are getting it, it seems like it may not work out well in the long run, and may also make a lot of people angry and frustrated in the process.

Caffinated …well said!!!

The way it was explained orginally was…

#1. Horses who were fixable or sound enough for re=trained got the help they needed, time-off, an education and sold.

#2. Horses who would not be sound enough to re-train but had quality of life got a retirement home.

#3. Horses who had no quality of life even as breeding stock and were always going to be in Pain were Euthanised.

There was never mention of pawing horses off on “Other” groups.
Of course CANTER would still be available to horseman who choose to continue a horses career until someone would buy it as a Sports Horse. Those with their own farms also have CANTER @ their disposal.
This Exclusive Elitest Clique Club @ Penn will always prevail until the Horseman take the reins of their destiny.

That’s beautiful. :sadsmile:

Sometimes I get emails or phone calls about horses that need homes that can either be retrained or just need some pasture rest, maybe 6 months to a year, maybe bowed tendons. My neighbor had a 17 H beautiful 3 year old, never raced but with bowed tendons and I suggested someone take him and they wanted money to take him. That’s going to mean that the horse may end up going to a bad place, maybe to someone who’ll just take him to NH. Some of the trainers or owners believe they are giving them to a good person but they end up on the slaughter truck. I told him to let me know if he gets a slow horse and I’ll try to help him find a home. But I think he seems to know how to place them now, I hope.

I talked to the executive director this morning. We discussed the funding in terms of how much there is and where it goes. We discussed how I feel the program should be run. Not that I am “right” but I feel deeply about it enough to share my feelings. We discussed their guidelines as they exist right now. They were written by their committee who included Mr Parker at that time.

I reiterated that I feel that no horse should ever be turned away if it is on the grounds. If that makes them a “kill shelter” so be it. Much better a humane death than a trip to Mexico which if you remember back to the beginning is what the program is supposed to be designed to prevent. Its one thing to ban slaughter. Its another to put your money where your mouth is and offer a viable solution to sending a horse to slaughter. Heck send the sound ones to me. I will rehome them for free and you can save your cash for the unsound ones who really need you.

In the future I invite those of you with questions to actually ask them of the people who know the answers rather than speculate or insinuate. If you don’t like the answers you receive then make constructive suggestions as to how you would like to see things changed. It was very clear to me that this is a work in progress that is truly in it’s infancy and they are open to suggestion. Heck you can even email them if the prospect of contacting them in person or via the phone is too daunting. Be a part of the solution.

I got the feeling that track’s were not willing to have a euthanasia type of program because it counted against their numbers of horses put down at their track. Is this the case?

I would see a great benefit to this type of program simply because it cost more for a group to transport that horse home, take x-rays and then have the vet back out to euthanize and have the body removed. I have experience with this for CANTER and it is an awful experience. I am supportive of doing the right thing for the horses but I think there is an easier/cheaper way to do this at the track and not make it a horrible thing.

The issue that we encounter is x-rays. People haven’t x-rayed the horse yet it’s lame and they want to donate it. Who pays for the x-rays?

Judy- I suppose my issue is with the #2 category because where are the retirement homes and how are those funded? I have been doing this for a long time and I find it extremely difficult to find homes for horses who can only do light flat work or trail ride. I find a lot of people get these horses and then give them away and who knows where they end up. If you estimate $200 a month to feed/care for one horse that is $2500 a year for ONE horse. Who pays this? I have yet to find trainers/owners who will pay to support a horse for one year. That figure is w/o farrier, dentist, vet or anything else. Hoping you find a cheap place to keep the horse with good care.

I appreciate the open discussion on these issues as it is a reality at all tracks and across all adoption/rehoming groups.

I have a small farm near Fair Hill and would let someone use one of the pastures to save a couple of horses and get them resold. Feel free to make a profit, I don’t care and use the pasture for free short term, 3-4 months should be enough.

If this will help save a horse then please do it. But if you want to do that email me, don’t PM me, the PM box is pretty full. TruckParts19311@aol.com

At this time I do not have any horses on my property. But whatever you do, do not leave me with any horses. I can’t keep them.

I understand the HBPA Board made plenty of revisions to the commities suggested rules INCLUDING an option for Penn to partner with TRF to send them FUNDED horses.

The Retirement Comittee Members that is made up of GOOD PEOPLE, wanted a diffrent set of rules and the HBPA board got it their selective way. Why?

Why did HBPA and Mostoller pass on it?

Why are horses being rejected when there is ample space and funding to take on more horses right now?

Judy, those are all good questions. Pick up the phone and ask someone who can answer them. Nobody here knows the answers.

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For those interested, mamma cat “Spice” went to her new home today, she’s living large in a beautiful barn with other cats, horses, dogs and comfortable accomodations. She will be very happy, I’m sure. She’s only a few miles from her previous home and has over 100 acres to hunt or she can hunt in the barn or other out buildings. This is a great, great home for any barn cat, I’m so happy. Her babies have homes indoors. Now I just need homes for the 2 at my farm, the deaf one especially and her sidekick. They need more protection than my farm can offer and to live indoors.

[QUOTE=Jleegriffith;5346882]
I got the feeling that track’s were not willing to have a euthanasia type of program because it counted against their numbers of horses put down at their track. Is this the case?

I would see a great benefit to this type of program simply because it cost more for a group to transport that horse home, take x-rays and then have the vet back out to euthanize and have the body removed. I have experience with this for CANTER and it is an awful experience. I am supportive of doing the right thing for the horses but I think there is an easier/cheaper way to do this at the track and not make it a horrible thing.

I would think that any individual who is willing to take the horses, reschool them and find them suitable homes or riders that that should be part of the business plan and funded as well. If the goal is to not send a single horse to slaughter, that is not realistic. I do not think euthansia by solution is an answer either as the numbers of horses whose lives end that way are many. In my view any added to the already problematical situation with utilizing these animals in any way (a proposal that has considerable merit) as a food resource for animals or humans (not to pull anyone’s chain), has already endangered the pet animal population and is an unnecessary risk if buried in the ground. I would hope to see a more ‘holistic’ approach, that is to take the total picture, the health and welfare of the horse, the people, and the biological/ecological system of the country into account.
The issue that we encounter is x-rays. People haven’t x-rayed the horse yet it’s lame and they want to donate it. Who pays for the x-rays?

Judy- I suppose my issue is with the #2 category because where are the retirement homes and how are those funded? I have been doing this for a long time and I find it extremely difficult to find homes for horses who can only do light flat work or trail ride. I find a lot of people get these horses and then give them away and who knows where they end up. If you estimate $200 a month to feed/care for one horse that is $2500 a year for ONE horse. Who pays this? I have yet to find trainers/owners who will pay to support a horse for one year. That figure is w/o farrier, dentist, vet or anything else. Hoping you find a cheap place to keep the horse with good care.

I appreciate the open discussion on these issues as it is a reality at all tracks and across all adoption/rehoming groups.[/QUOTE]

As far as I know you are correct that the stats for euthanasia add to the tracks’ fatality rate and they are worried about that. Some hide those stats in many ways. If there were more of an open discussion regarding this and less weight given to those that believe all of the horses lives can be saved (airy fairy ideas at best given the economy) I think it could be solved in discussion with individual tracks and their owners. Some are plain not interested in being so open so that would have to come down as a national policy. Not real sure that the NTRA has that much weight or authority. As far as which horses to save and which cannot or not usefully in any case, that needs some careful and clear headed assessment for any program. In this area, the game farm (famous Beebe game farm) will take horses that will be fed to the predators. From what I hear they are very kind about the whole process and if a horse is given to them that they think has a possible life otherwise, they will network. Very unusual but the Beebe’s were unusual people. They both just passed away and the son has taken over the business.

And if the horse was turned over to the “Retirement Program” and deemed unsalvagable, then Euthanised it doesn’t count on the Fatality Count and your $10.00 “donation” is put to use…