Business As Usual

[Calamber]

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;5366904]
And if the horse was turned over to the “Retirement Program” and deemed unsalvagable, then Euthanised it doesn’t count on the Fatality Count and your $10.00 “donation” is put to use…[/QUOTE]

Correct. This program could be a standard bearer for other programs so should be run as close to possible with a humane business model. This may be a contentious issue but if the issue of earnings for horses that are deemed unsalvageable is an acceptable metric for the horse to be retired, then perhaps that could be used. If not, I cannot see how more horse owners will be brought on board to support this unless just forced to do so with a small fee attached to the registry fee or breeding fee. However it would work best. If you make it more understandable, that those that are salvageable will have the best of training that is supported and those deemed unsalvageable will be utilized or at least put down as humanely as possible with the use of the horse’s body taken into account, I think more people would support and thus a greater body of income made available. It just has to have that perfect balance of love for the horse and a business model that can be supported. I believe it is possible.

[judybigredpony]

This was What (you/we said)was propsed but never implemented.

again Penns Mouth speaks but words are hollow…

[system]

Horse Adoption

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;5367122]
This was What (you/we said)was propsed but never implemented.

again Penns Mouth speaks but words are hollow…[/QUOTE]

First I would like to start by saying that everything that goes on with the horses put into the Adoption Program is documented. We have names, date, how long horses are in the program, etc. Only two horses have been rejected from this program. One which was Mr. Servideo which whom I believe posted earlier in this blog. His horse has a displaced sesamoid, the horse will never go sound and be rideable. Second was a horse that isnt even in the state of PA. The horse never even ran at Penn. Im not sure where all this info is coming from however everything is documented and available upon request in the HBPA. Any horse can become elegible. It clearly states that if your horse does not meet the criteria the board will review it and decide if the horse may go in the program. No horse is denied an application. Only less than 20 apps have even come in since the program started. Thats nobodies fault but the trainers for not taking the time and puttin in an app. A lot of work has gone into this program more than you people think. Also, a horse has been accepted that was turned out in a field layed up for over a year. That horse was accepted because of all its starts at Penn National. So please do not say nothing is being done fare. Yes, there are stalls available and if trainers wold put in an app I would almost guarantee the horse would get in. As far as Turning for Home, if u look up statistics, that program has failed. They took every horse in the world and now they dont know what to do. I encourage trainers and owners to actually stop in the HBPA office and fill out an application and until horses are being rejected left and right, I dont feel people should say otherwise because your facts are wrong. The committee is good people who have put more hours and more meetings than anyone realizes trying to make this fare. Todd has been at every meeting and has put the needs of the trainers and horses at his best of heart. Also, at the HBPA meeting anyone that wanted to join the committee was offered to raise there hand and they would be put on the committee. Only six people volunteered. Also please keep in mind that it is not just people on the committee and Todd whom are making decisions as to what horses qualify. Penn must answer to New Vocations whom has a say in this as well. As far as euthanasia, no cases have come up where a horse is in question to be put to sleep. A discounted cost is offered if a horse is to be put down and that is up to the owner/trainer. No horse that has been put into the program has taken a turn for the worst. All have improved and some adopted. So far the program is successful and running well.

[take_a_deep_breathe]

Turning for Home

As far as Turning for Home, if u look up statistics, that program has failed. They took every horse in the world and now they dont know what to do.

I didn’t know the statistics of Turning for Home were made public or posted anywhere. Could you please let me know where I can find them? (You can PM me), but it would be interested to see where the money is going and how many horses are actually being able to be adopted out.

[BeverlyAStrauss]

Why do you claim that Turning for Home has failed? They have taken in hundreds and hundreds of horses! There are plenty of horses on the track and at the feedlots that need help, and lots of programs to help them, yet they are still falling through the cracks. Remember that in order for one program to succeed does not mean that another has to fail- Please, as rescues, let’s ALL work together to get our TB’s into safe new homes, don’t make a statement like that, one that I don’t think can be backed up.

[Barbara_L]

WOW! We have failed??? News to me and to our trainers. Can you back up that very odd statement?

[Laurierace]

First off Horses, use your return key once in a while. Lose the text speak AND the attitude. Whatever shortcomings other programs may or may not have are not relevant to the topic at hand. Pointing fingers looks like a deflection to me.

[judybigredpony]

Horses2323 to even be credible you should make an effort to use your Spell check.

Also people who volunteerd and asked to be on that committee aren’t. Some now glad…

Some who were, have since quit or been asked to re-sign.

As far as Turning For Home, while not a huge fan they have a good track record for a program taking on a Huge task.
They aren’t looking to keep horses and re-train but move to new homes.

Penn did not solicit anyones input BEFORE they made their choice.It smells of Political rhetoric enacted to shut people up, keep-face and move on hoping it gets forgotten

So far there’s been almost no press no advertising letting the world know its there and to be used. No advertising of any magnitude letting horseman know they have horses for sale, beyond go to the webb site…

Was a round table discussion set up with people such as Barbara Luna from Turning From Home and Beverly Strauss from Mid-Atlantic, Allie from C.A.N.T.E.R…don’t think so.

In-put from the horseman on the backside asking what their needs/wants/expectations are??

Talking to re-sellers who have a good idea what the economey is??? Where the market is?? What the demands are??

Any fund raising, educational or show case ideas or press packets…??

Nope the ubiquitous “They” made the decision and announced it.

New Vocations will only benefit horses who are sound and game ready for a new sports horse career.

Those horses who have earned a retirement have No Place To Go and those with low level casual limited usefullness are also not accepted???
Big pretty clean sound horses will almost always be sellable on the backside…

The point or so “I” so naively thought was to take the horses in…triage them.

Those that can went on.

Those who were fixable with in reason $$ got fixed laid up and then put into the program

Those who were pasture sound had quality of life and not in chronic pain but unrideable got retired to a farm the program ran.

Those poor souls who are in chronic pain, un-fixable but still stabled on the Backside were Euthanized @ the “Programs” expense.

After all the Program does collect $10.00 per horse per start every night they race.

[judybigredpony]

From the horses mouth.Jleegrifith

[I]

The majority of people who call to ask about donation are people wanting to donate unsound horse because they have no other options. Hate to say but many of those calls are on horses that should be put down.
[/I]

I have to network my butt off to convince people to donate horses that are sound because the reality is they can get $$ for them instead so why give them to a rehoming group?

So here’s an idea…
Host paying clinics offering conformation information, injury and recovery information, how to buy a suitable horse, what to expect when you buy an OTTB

INFORM YOUR PUBLIC

then why not let the re-sellers and event riders etc. Cherry pick the Cream of the Crop for a flat fixed fee…your vets already triage the horses provide a basic good PPE…

Have a monthly sale…you don’t have to ride the horses at all. The new owner can do all the work.

Then use that $$ to benefit those horses who aren’t going to get a new life.
The horses who don’t sell you can re-train and sell for more $$ on the webb site.
Also offer Kudos in the Press on Race Program and on the Big Screen @ the track for trainers who are participating in Penn’s Program. Make it a BIG DEAL to send you horse to them.
Shhsh…Penn does have a PR and Marketing Program…will there be a booth @ the Horse Expo in Harrisburg???
You have to be able to sell snow to an Eskimo in this business…they get people to put money in slot machines for pete’s sake…

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;5376834]
From the horses mouth.Jleegrifith

So here’s an idea…
Host paying clinics offering conformation information, injury and recovery information, how to buy a suitable horse, what to expect when you buy an OTTB

INFORM YOUR PUBLIC

then why not let the re-sellers and event riders etc. Cherry pick the Cream of the Crop for a flat fixed fee…your vets already triage the horses provide a basic good PPE…

Have a monthly sale…you don’t have to ride the horses at all. The new owner can do all the work.

Then use that $$ to benefit those horses who aren’t going to get a new life.
The horses who don’t sell you can re-train and sell for more $$ on the webb site.
Also offer Kudos in the Press on Race Program and on the Big Screen @ the track for trainers who are participating in Penn’s Program. Make it a BIG DEAL to send you horse to them.
Shhsh…Penn does have a PR and Marketing Program…will there be a booth @ the Horse Expo in Harrisburg???
You have to be able to sell snow to an Eskimo in this business…they get people to put money in slot machines for pete’s sake…[/QUOTE]

Why is it that people are so eager to tell someone else to execute their ideas? If you think that this can be done, for goodness sakes, go and do it!

[judybigredpony]

Oh like your trip to VA to check on the status of Alleged mistreated horses.

[ASB_Stars]

I made no representation of my ability to get to that farm- rather, the thread was, from the beginning, a request for help.

I remain unconvinced that those horses are in wonderful shape. The people who I personally know, who have seen them, tell me otherwise, and photos, sadly, add weight. But I will know who to call on when I need to have them checked, again.

[Barbara_L]

Although I do not know what the current status is of Penn’s program, (we have enough keeping us busy down here!), I have been contacted many times by everyone from Chris McIrlean, New Vocations, Stephanie and Todd in the last two years re: our program. They have completely done their homework.

They picked my little brain CLEAN! They are very interested in doing the right thing, but just because we have one way of doing it, does not mean that our business plan can work for anyone. Every track has a different support group.

It really is all about funding, being able to work it from inside (my opinion), PLUS our PTHA supports us in every way…as does Parx Racing and our owners and jockeys.

And it still isn’t easy, but is awfully rewarding (see our Graduates page on our website).

[Profidia]

RIP Karma Check.

Hope the jocks involved in last nights wreck are ok.

[Jleegriffith]

Judy- not sure if you are addressing CANTER or other programs but CANTER does not have the ability to operate like other programs. We do not receive contributions that would even allow the budget to run our program where we would take ‘every’ horse. We are given funding by the tracks but it is not a large amount. Our primary function is a marketing service to help the trainers market their horses. Our secondary function is to take horses on donation and use the money given to CANTER by the tracks in a way that helps the greatest number of horses.

It is strictly a volunteer program. We are not paid and all of us work full-time jobs. We are not based at the tracks nor does CANTER own it’s own property. Horses have to be boarded which is a very large cost factor.

I know that just from the track that I work out of we took 25 horses on donation from May-October and our numbers are probably close to 60 CANTER horses we took on donation this year. We can only take that many horses because the horses are sound and can find new homes. They return money back to the program when they are resold. I can tell you it tears at all of us when we can’t take certain horses but we do network to find those horses homes. We just do not have a budget to support the horses that will never find homes nor do the tracks we operate out of do not just want us there to euthanize horses.

Unsound horses would have to be boarded for years and years. Estimate $3k for one year for one horse that is not sound enough to find a home. You can place a lot more sound horses for that $3k. I realize all organizations do it differently and have different missions. No way is the right way but you have to do what works best for your particular group and the funding you have available.

CANTER has NO problem reselling horses. We have many upper level riders buying horses from us on a monthly basis across all disciplines. It sounds like what you are saying is that the programs like CANTER should let you (a reseller) take the best horses for a flat fee because we should be taking the broken down horses? That makes zero sense to me. Almost every horse that was donated from the track I operate out of was listed on the trainer listings first. The public/resellers could have could in and purchased them but they didn’t. You know just as well as I do that some trainers simply don’t want to deal with the public and don’t care about the money. Sometimes they need to move a horse so quickly they can’t wait another day. If the horse is sound or needs minimial rehab we provide an easy option for them.

I believe that the way CANTER MA has designed their retraining program is bringing a lot more public awareness to our program simply because people get to see horses that we have in action. Then the horses are sold to people who will promote our program because they have seen the nice horses we have gotten in and the good job that we have done retraining them. That is our best marketing tool!

It is easy to stand on the outside and judge how each program operates and pick it apart. I echo Bev (Mid Atlantic Horse Rescue) in that all groups are out to help horses find new homes. Instead of picking apart each group join the effort. No program will ever be perfect or please everyone.

Kelly, a volunteer for CANTER MA, wrote an excellent article which provides insight into how CANTER makes decisions on horses. It is a MUST read in my personal opinion.
http://calabriarose.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/on-injured-horses-and-saying-no/

[SEPowell]

@judybigredpony;5376834

So here’s an idea…
Host paying clinics offering conformation information, injury and recovery information, how to buy a suitable horse, what to expect when you buy an OTTB

Dodon very generously offers this service

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;5376834]

then why not let the re-sellers and event riders etc. Cherry pick the Cream of the Crop for a flat fixed fee…your vets already triage the horses provide a basic good PPE…

Have a monthly sale…you don’t have to ride the horses at all. The new owner can do all the work.

Then use that $$ to benefit those horses who aren’t going to get a new life. The horses who don’t sell you can re-train and sell for more $$ on the webb site.

Also offer Kudos in the Press on Race Program and on the Big Screen @ the track for trainers who are participating in Penn’s Program. Make it a BIG DEAL to send you horse to them.
Shhsh…Penn does have a PR and Marketing Program…will there be a booth @ the Horse Expo in Harrisburg???
You have to be able to sell snow to an Eskimo in this business…they get people to put money in slot machines for pete’s sake…[/QUOTE]

If you put this in a business plan, A (selling sound horses for a fixed rate) would not support B (paying for triage, paying the vets for PPEs and maintaining unsound horses). Also, it would require a much larger support staff than most rescues can afford.

“Resellers”, however, would get a great deal for not lifting a finger.

[judybigredpony]

Jl and Se you so don’t get it!!!

Jl you have no dog in this hunt. Your CANTER MA.

SE, Penn is not providing for those…less than perfect horses.
In order to make a quicker turn around, spend less $$ and make a place for those who can’t get new sports careers, it only makes sense to sell your best horses fast 1st.To quickly and effciately move as many horses as possible w/ out doing any re-training.Why not get them triaged and gone.
This program was supposed to do that in the 1st place.

As for re-sellers not lifting a finger?? Do you have a clue how long it takes to let down and re-educate a horse for a new job? But you can get potentially more $$ if you have them in one place at one time not re-started but available on a non track setting.
Just removing the hassel of calling individual trainers, not having to go thru the Stable Gate Entry ritual (which @ penn limits you to 3 visits a year as a guest). gathering up your students/clients and looking @ a monthly sale has advantages. With a Vet on site to do a PPE.

Yes DoDon did a clinic…and Does speak @ the MD Horse Expo.
So why can’t Penn/New Vocations take a page and host their own educational clincs while show casing horses for sale.
Why drive to Annapolis Md when you can go right to the cow??

You are so missing the forest for the trees, Penn program had an opportunity to take the Best from every model and make this one shine. Plus adapt a no horse Left Behind Policy/Program. Which should include euthanasia

JL your horses were from DE a seasonal track where when it closes they either move South or to a new track. It was easier to give those sound horses to CANTER than move them on @ that moment in time. Plus you have Allie doing her new “Thing” in Carolina’s re-training and selling to the sports horse market. Something you yourself have been doing on a smaller scale succesfully. All of which is a super model. Bev Strauss has a tiptop program.
Turning For Home moves alot of horses.
So where do you propose all of the horses who are not eligable for Penn’s program go??
I have no clue?? But I can guess.
I already support 2 who have no futures as riding horses and 1 outstanding owner who pays for his horse to be retired. I have $$$ supported and found homes for a few and put some down. I have $$$ supported given alot away who needed that extra TLC to reslove issues before going to lesser stressful sports horse careers.
My financial resources come from the horses I do sell, there is no deep well of $$ here.
We all draw from the same supply pools, we all sell to pretty much the same narrow market.
It only makes good business sense to advertise, educate and expand your market and target. Educate and bring in new buyers and make it as easy as possible.

I have every intention of doing doing just that on a much smaller scale .!!!

[Jleegriffith]

Where do you propose those horses who are not eligible go? I think that is the question all groups are asking. Anyone who is in the business of trying to place horses with injuries even minor injuries knows how extremely difficult it is. Who supports those horses? Why should rescue/rehoming groups be responsible for the bad decisions made by others? I realize not all horses get hurt because someone didn’t care and ran them too hard or ran them on preexisting injuries but a lot of people push them until there is nothing left and then throw them away. Who plays the role of taking in all the unsound horses who more than likely will be very challenging to rehome?

Heck it’s hard enough to re home sound horses below 16H!!!

[leilatigress]

I don’t think the program should have to accept every horse. NO I’m not bullet and drug happy but in this time of OMG save the ponies we have to be realistic.

1. Truly crippled and not going to make pasture sound (2 vets at least for this eval) euth the horse either out of funds for that or at owner’s expense. Owner of course has option of taking horse.
2. Pasture sound or light riding. (2 vets on this eval too) I’d euth 90% of these as well and those that pass serious temperament tests try them as either foal babysitters or broodmares. (I’d courtesy list these and get them on pasture boarding)
3. Temperamental issues- eh most can be worked through but we’ve all met at least one or two that are truly just not gonna cut it. I’d try and work through these issues for about 6 months. I’d euth these too but these I would case by case and maybe network higher to the bigger barns if horse is seriously talented.

I’d network back to the breeders first for many of these horses. Not because I think the breeders should pay (they should) but because that horse came out of their stock and they should know what happened to that horse. Yes the big fancy get sold off the backside but the shorties make wonderful polo ponies! For the ones needing rehab what about working with the local colleges and offering the horses for teaching on a lease basis?

[caffeinated]

@judybigredpony;5381113

Jl and Se you so don’t get it!!!

To be honest, I think it’s less that people “don’t get it” and more that it’s difficult to decipher your posts sometimes.