If by “better care” you mean retiring the ones who require blocking in order to appear sound enough to run, then I agree with you.
I’m already full full full with other people’s retirees, or else I would take on another.
[QUOTE=Barnfairy;4659450]
If by “better care” you mean retiring the ones who require blocking in order to appear sound enough to run, then I agree with you.
I’m already full full full with other people’s retirees, or else I would take on another.[/QUOTE]
Ditto Ditto Ditto… :sigh:
You mean like the mepivicaine violations that Asmussen and Pletcher have? Or the cobra venom that Biancone’s vet was caught with? Does Gill have an actual violation someone can point to that is on par with these incidents? Does he really have more clout than Todd Pletcher, Steve Asmussen and Patrick Biancone so that he gets authorities to look the other way when they can’t?
I don’t necessarily like the Gill operation either and there is plenty enough to investigate but if you are actually contemplating driving a man out of business maybe it would be better if some of these assumptions were proven.
Gill is totally delusional. He doesn’t seem to get that the problem with him is his utter lack of concern for animals and humans.
Winning at the expense of lives is what this is about. And he just doesn’t get it.
Somone suggested he develop an interst in NASCAR, that would better suit him as he can race machinery into the ground rather than an animal.
[QUOTE=Dispatcher;4659495]
Gill is totally delusional. He doesn’t seem to get that the problem with him is his utter lack of concern for animals and humans.
Winning at the expense of lives is what this is about. And he just doesn’t get it.
Somone suggested he develop an interst in NASCAR, that would better suit him as he can race machinery into the ground rather than an animal.[/QUOTE]
I honestly believe that the reason he’s chosen horse racing is because he’s got a god complex. Never met the guy, but his actions scream of someone who loves the idea of controlling another living being through chemistry…
But that’s just me…
[QUOTE=Pronzini;4659468]
You mean like the mepivicaine violations that Asmussen and Pletcher have? Or the cobra venom that Biancone’s vet was caught with? Does Gill have an actual violation someone can point to that is on par with these incidents? Does he really have more clout than Todd Pletcher, Steve Asmussen and Patrick Biancone so that he gets authorities to look the other way when they can’t?
I don’t necessarily like the Gill operation either and there is plenty enough to investigate but if you are actually contemplating driving a man out of business maybe it would be better if some of these assumptions were proven.[/QUOTE]
Within the next 4 weeks, all you people in the internet clamoring for reasons why he’s been eliminated will get your answers. As I’ve said before, this is much more to come. I know it and I’m sorry I can’t pass the info along to you. If at this point, you don’t believe me (and when I type something on here I"ve rarely been wrong) then that is your perogative. If you think the REAL reason the commission ejected him is for the reason they provided then you haven’t been immersed in Politics very long.
And in case anyone else cares, I will continue to monitor Penn until there is more accountability on all levels. I think I’ve been more than vocal about the problems there, right?
And finally, this is a sad day for Penn National. I’ve intimated earlier in this thread that when breakdowns for Gill seemed to hit a lull that I was hoping there was some sort of internal mandate from Gill. The fact that he had to be ejected is not good for the game, it’s not good for Penn National and it’s not good for Michael Gill.
At the end of the day, most people posting on this board have not witnessed first hand what I and other horseman at Penn have seen. The JOCKEYS, not DICK HERTZ, is what ultimately ran Mr. Gill out of Penn National. Do you really think that after going down that Saturday that Ricky Frazier said “you know what that Dick Hertz is right, let’s get this guy out of here?” No. He was the one who allegedly went to Clifton and said enough and from there it snowballed.
Mr. Gill could have intervened at any point between NOvember and January and demanded the sore horses stopped running and if he was being ignored, then he should have acted quicker to get involved in the situation. What if, after the bad month of breakdowns in the Fall, Gill had fired his trainers and done a mea culpa. He could have realized that things were out of control - he gets the vet bills, he knows which ones are sore.
There are a lot of problems with Racing and Mr. Gill is not the worst by a long shot. There are worse people in the game right now, incuding one of his former trainers who is still at Penn.
I’m sorry that some of you can’t see the greater good in things and ignore posts where I report the truth. Nobody talks about how I strongly commended the chart caller for doing an about face and reporting the truth. I gave him a kudos. I’m not out to get anybody, but you better be DAMN STRAIGHT that when I see blatant disregard and lack of respect for the game we have, I will be pointing it out on this board. The problem with racing is there is very little media coverage and at Racinos the inmates run the asylum. The whole system is broken.
And to my detractors who say “why don’t you get out of Penn if it’s so bad?”
My answer is two fold:
-
Is it really any better anywhwere else aside from the very elite tracks?
-
What’s wrong with wanting to be part of the change at Penn National?
According to local news report on ABC 27 News this morning… Due to all the jockeys threatening to not ride in tonights races where Gill had horses entered to run… Penn National has been stated as pulling all of Gill’s entries and the jockeys have agreed to run as planned if this is the case. The news also reported that Gill has announced he is retiring from racing even though he made over $6mill last year.
Dont know for sure if the numbers were correct or if the above pulling of Gill entries will actually happen, but that is what was reported this morning.
All I want is what’s best for the horses; I’m not interested in running people out of business. In the absence of better testing and enforcement for some of the things that are going on, we have shunning by peer pressure.
Gill chose to take himself out of the business before the news of ejection came. If Gill was doing nothing wrong, why was he willing to fold so easily?
Gill is right about one thing; fair’s fair across the board. I don’t care who’s doing it or on what scale, large barn or small – the Chemical Alis and the Josef Mengeles have got to stop. If that means the death of racing, so be it then. I don’t really want to see an end to racing, but having seen my fair share of three leggeds when they finally do fall low enough to be retired, something’s got to give. Misuse and abuse of medications and treatments to keep a horse going which should be retired --even if those treatments and medications are technically legal on some level-- is not in the best interest of the horses, the jockeys who ride them, or the sport in general.
Gill can certainly afford to provide for the retirement of his own horses for those that need it.
One of our own COTH’ers who trains at Penn is working on putting together a list of horses at Penn and the farm for sale.
The list might be shorteer than we think, told me last night that Daryl Delahoussaye got $300. a head for about 20 or so who were vanned off premises on a one way trip to Canada when they got wind the proverbial sh** hit was coming.
I will be on my way up to Penn today to pick up a horse…not a Gill, the horse in his string I have been waiting to buy has not appeared on the entries in about 30 days. Think he may have taken a trip over the border.
Didn’t a Delahoussaye horse break down in the last 2 weeks, old campaigner w/ bad tendon?? Horse showed up in paddock w/ duct tape on right front leg?? Of course some say he still has what ever left over products Gill was using anyway???
And when you lie down w/ dogs you get fleas.
The broom hasn’t swept clean yet.
Am now waiting to see if Gill applies for stalls @ Charlestown, his stock whats left will find it tough going @ Philly park. But OH wait doesn’t the same outfit own all 3 tracks? Still more Drama to play out I think yet.
Barnfairy makes good points. Look, trainers in the business know what that line is where a horse shouuld stop. There are also two types of trainers in the business. The good ones (most) stop, the bad ones push the envelope and while they may not have a bad test, that makes them no better than Delahoussaye and Adamo.
Penn and Charles Town are PNGI owned.
Philly is owned by Greenwood racing.
No Penn National gaming definitely doesn’t own Philly Park. I would take a Gill horse or two if we can find one that doesn’t need every square inch of his body shockwaved, injected and blocked in order to run. Duct tape optional.
Dick Hertz asks: Is it really better anywhere else, aside from the elite tracks? The answer, sadly, is no. There are plenty of complaints about the Penn National racing office. Well, how about this - at Philly Park, the racing secretary is dating one of the trainers. Ask around and see if races get written for her or if her races “go” more often, or if she gets to keep all her stalls when others are cut. I will say the head of security is pretty gung-ho at Philly, but the receiving barn is run loosey-goosey and there were rumors Gill’s horses were milkshaked in there. Are horses given better pre-race exams at Philly than at Penn? I doubt it. So you see, Dick is right, aside from the elite tracks, it’s business as usual pretty much all over.
Pronzini you are absolutely correct about the drug positives, particularly by leading trainers. The playing field isn’t always level in racing. The state racing commissions don’t step up in a timely manner to deal with these issues. But the situation with Gill is different. He so boldly states he has no drug positives. As anyone familiar with racing and horses can tell the “stats” indicate something different. Older runners know when something is going wrong and tend to pull themselves up regardless of the urging of the jockey. The way Gill’s horses “drop like a stone” indicate they could sense no warning. His horses that were pulled up, eased or returned lame indicate the “treatment” was wearing or had worn off and the horse was protecting itself. This manipulation of the horses, living creatures, for personal gain, is CRUEL and not what this sport is about. And no, Gill is not the only person to do these things, he is just the most noticeable at the moment; thankfully due to the actions of the Penn National jockeys and then all the comments of the people who know what has gone on. No one is driving Gill out of business, he still has his mortgage business. But he does NOT belong in this business, using horses to death. Let us see this episode make some real changes in racing.
I can’t help but think an opportunity may be missed in this Gill debacle, now that the issue of ‘Gill and his misfits’ is seemingly nearing a conclusion.
As an observer of the COTH’s, and Paulick Report’s threads on this issue, there are some obvious conclusions;
- Many are sick of seeing racing sullied by ‘Gill-like’ tactics and techniques, on and off the track.
- Many care deeply about racing and horses and jockeys and want to prevent this type of cruelty and abuse from occurring.
However, we need to keep in mind that Gill’s departure, will not fix these insidious problems that afflict racing. No, unfortunately there will be someone with similarly low morals and values to take his place, just as there are still many out there operating their racing business in the same manner already. Clearly, hall of fame and eclipse award winning trainers and owners will resort to this style of practice just as much as those running at the bottom of the claiming ranks.
For those who either have no higher principles or decide they are comfortable down-grading their values, it often comes down to a ‘business decision’. They cheat and abuse horses as they are unable to be successful otherwise.
Currently the industry tolerates this behavior.
Racing in this regard seems an awful lot like baseball. I wonder what would have happened in baseball if the cheaters knew that to return a positive drug test would cause a life-time ban from any involvement in the game, massive fines, and prison time?
But perhaps racing is in a worse predicament? At least the ball players knew what they were doing to themselves.
The hard fact remains today that the same heinous activities will continue, until the racing industry institutes changes, such that abuse and drugging of horses (on and off racecourse grounds) is no longer tolerated, and also gives itself some real recourse in prosecuting offenders.
To reiterate with more strength, the industry needs to get drugs and other abusive techniques out of the sport, and grow a spine and some teeth so that it is no longer a pathetic and gutless pansy in regard to these issues. It makes me sick to my stomach that some ‘famous top trainer’ gets his rich owner’s attorney to humiliate the racing industry’s sorry legal performance. Then that pharmacist (I can’t call them trainers), is back doing the same abusive things with barely a slap on the wrist.
But, as in any democracy, change will come from the bottom.
Those at the top, in positions of power, and that could bring about these changes in racing, are not going to act until their position is threatened en-mass from below. The system as it is now is working for them – they’re already there at the top of the food chain.
What we need to do is take this issue, not just of Gill, but also of Assmussen and others, and stir it into maelstrom, until the mainstream media reports on the real story, until it becomes such an aggravating issue to those in power within the industry that they are compelled to finally make some changes.
I don’t care if the ‘industry power players’ say it was their idea (that’s how it usually works anyway), and I don’t care if the cheaters get upset, because they know they will be toppled from their artificially enhanced perch, and I don’t care if some of the socio-pathic types remain in the business – so long as they don’t treat horses the way they have in the past.
What we all want is a true sport (free of cheating and drugs) that restores the completely deserved respect for the key player – the horse.
It may well mean there are some losses;
a) some horses can’t run as they’re too sore or lame – should they be running anyway?
b) some tracks close as their aren’t enough bottom enders to fill their races – should those be running anyway?
c) the industry contracts a little – but wouldn’t this be an argument of quality vs quantity?
d)there are less horses for the kill-pens.
So, my question to fellow COTH and PR folks – What Now? There is obviously considerable passion surrounding this issue, and it won’t go away with Gill’s ‘promised’ departure. It would be a shame to waste all this angst on the outing of just one player, as the sickness still resides within racing.
Cheers
The answer is simple.
One positive - fine + loss of purse
Two positives within 12 months - fine + loss of purse + 30 days
Three postives within 12 months - fine + loss of purse + 6 months and the license is only re-instated on a probationary basis for 2 years and any future infractions in 2 years results in permanent suspension.
If you are caught with a class II or class I you are OUT pernmanently. If you are caught with a shockwave machine you are OUT permanently. Racing has shown that it will only respond when a MAJOR event takes place. Unfortunately, I doubt the Commission will step up and make things tougher for the cheaters.
I wonder if one of the children of the PA Racing Commission continued to make the same mistakes in behavior if they would levy the same punishment each time? The answer is “no”.
Since there will be no more monitoring of the Gill breakdowns, I have changed the subheading of the maing thread to “Monitoring Penn National”. I’m going to continue to see that Penn’s racing product moves in a positive direction.
Some of the things that will be looked at will be, in no particular order:
- security
- pre-race scratches of horses
- whether Penn implements pre-race exams for backstretch stabled horses
- harsher penalties for positive drug tests (I will be posting all positives posted at Penn)
- whether Darrell Delahoussaye is allowed to continue to train at Penn and if the riders will rider for him - the riders have said privately this whole mes will continue when one of his horses is entered
- overall change in management at Penn and see how they will use this as a way to change some of their ways
Others with issues at Penn, feel free to post your complaints as well.
So if someone buy’s a horse off gill and next week enters it a Penn, will the riders not ride against it? i haven’t read all the posts.
[I]
[QUOTE=Little Hound;4659584]
Well, how about this - at Philly Park, the racing secretary is dating one of the trainers. Ask around and see if races get written for her or if her races “go” more often, or if she gets to keep all her stalls when others are cut. I will say the head of security is pretty gung-ho at Philly, but the receiving barn is run loosey-goosey and there were rumors Gill’s horses were milkshaked in there. Are horses given better pre-race exams at Philly than at Penn?[/QUOTE][/I]
I have heard those rumors about the racing secretary too- and to be honest if you go by the races written- her horses always seem to get nice spots for them!
Now my question is this- what about other trainers at tracks- I.e. Philly Park who break down more than their share of horse- like a Ramon Preciado- why is nothing is ever done or looked into about them???
are they going to boycott the new trainers with the same horses? we’ll
