Buy American

[LovesHorses]

Sorry I haven’t read thru the entire thread yet, but…

I buy young hunter ponies. I think a lot of breeders have the quality here in the US that you can find in Europe. Since I tend to buy young and unbroke or lightly started, I do a lot of my research on the internet. I often have a hard time getting good pictures and videos. Often asking for clear video, let alone with a little free jumping, can be like pulling teeth. Good marketing is key. Having quality animals that are well handled and properly presented is also crucial. I don’t need to see something spit shined. I can see past that. I will and have bought off pictures, video and pedigree alone many times.

My boss buys most of our full size Hunter/Jumpers in Europe. We would gladly purchase in the states if we could get well started 5-8 yr olds for $75K or less, before importation costs. That means ready to step in the show ring in either the Pre-Greens or 1.20+ jumpers and win. Most of our horses come in and have show records up to the 1.30m jumpers. They made need more flatwork and finishing touches, but they have been shown a considerable amount. I find comparable horses here in the US run double that budget. I do understand the price tag as upkeep and showing here are VERY expensive compared to Europe. Unfortunately, that increases the bottom line.

[dressage4ever]

Honestly I think a lot of buyers do buy American. There are a lot of nice horses here. However I was looking for a super fancy horse with FEI potential and in this country they are about double what they are in Germany. I had to go a little younger then I wanted but I couldn’t find anything here in that same price range. I think a lot of breeders here price their nice ones really high because they would rather put the training on them and then sell them for even more money. I get it I just don’t have that much to spend. I think for the average person looking to go up the levels there are plenty of nice horses here. I found quite a few I wished I had students for because they looked so easy and were reasonable priced.

As a smaller breeder myself I have had very few inquries on my horses and in my opinion they are reasonably priced and everyone that has seen them in person says, you should have no problem selling them, as they really are nice. Well that’s just not been the case. But I am taking all of these suggestions to heart as I really need to update my website. Or I’m going to be busy getting all of these horses going in a few years!!

[back_in_the_saddle]

[QUOTE=EquusMagnificus;5863366]
I did. More than once.

Think of it, a lot people reply to ads on iPhones and the like… Hardly the suitable technology to get long winded! :)[/QUOTE]

That’s how my (me being the buyer) email started with the seller of my now horse. lol

She was listed in dreamhorse. My email inquiry from that forum to the seller said: Is this horse still available? Sweet and simple.

By this point in my search i was a little jaded about even wasting my time with another inquiry whether it be a call or an email. Most horses had been sold 6months to 2 years before I called or emailed (i did both and ususally had to leave message when I did call). I found it easier to keep track of via email because I could go back and see if I already asked about a certain horse.

[back_in_the_saddle]

[QUOTE=dressage4ever;5863408]

As a smaller breeder myself I have had very few inquries on my horses and in my opinion they are reasonably priced and everyone that has seen them in person says, you should have no problem selling them, as they really are nice. Well that’s just not been the case. But I am taking all of these suggestions to heart as I really need to update my website. Or I’m going to be busy getting all of these horses going in a few years!![/QUOTE]

And you’re missing an opportunity here by not having your website in your signature line.

[smokygirl]

[QUOTE=back in the saddle;5863412]
That’s how my (me being the buyer) email started with the seller of my now horse. lol

She was listed in dreamhorse. My email inquiry from that forum to the seller said: Is this horse still available? Sweet and simple.

By this point in my search i was a little jaded about even wasting my time with another inquiry whether it be a call or an email. Most horses had been sold 6months to 2 years before I called or emailed (i did both and ususally had to leave message when I did call). I found it easier to keep track of via email because I could go back and see if I already asked about a certain horse.[/QUOTE]

But, when someone has 30 emails “Is this horse available”, and 98% of them are from 13 yo girls… it helps a buyer to stand out a little. Use a subject line, mention which horse and say something besides “do ya still got the horse?”… sadly many do that.

A paragraph “I am interested in Kallie. I am looking for a young horse to start to use as a dressage prospect w/ my trainer” will go a lot further to sounding serious than, “Is it available still”… especially when there are so many scams that sellers are told to beware of .

[back_in_the_saddle]

[QUOTE=smokygirl;5863432]
But, when someone has 30 emails “Is this horse available”, and 98% of them are from 13 yo girls… it helps a buyer to stand out a little. Use a subject line, mention which horse and say something besides “do ya still got the horse?”… sadly many do that.

A paragraph “I am interested in Kallie. I am looking for a young horse to start to use as a dressage prospect w/ my trainer” will go a lot further to sounding serious than, “Is it available still”… especially when there are so many scams that sellers are told to beware of .[/QUOTE]

Scammers can easily type the above just as easy as “Is the horse still available?” One word, two words… two sentences… does it really matter anymore? Those afraid of scams who don’t answer simple questions about the horse are reducing their potential buyers. Set up a gmail acct for the horse stuff or something to stay anom. There ARE ways to stay safe when selling things online.

When the answer comes back with a Yes (no more needs to be said at this point), then I spend more time asking questions or give a call.

[YankeeLawyer]

Simple solution for one-line email inquiries - politely request that they phone you at their convenience and say you would be happy to discuss in further detail.

I have received one-line emails with multiple typos that at first glance look like a foreign scam but turned out to be inquiries from very serious clients who apparently were texting while driving or something! I try to avoid making assumptions, but I also am not going to type out a 3-page description of the horse in response (partiicularly when most info is available on my website and in my ads). I have received emails such as “Is X available? Tell me everything about X” that are not even signed. No, I am not going to invest a lot of time responding in writing to an inquiry like that.

[Prime_Time_Rider]

[QUOTE=PineTreeFarm;5858899]
As far as H/J performance horses ( and most H/J people don’t want an unstarted horse, they want a ready to go horse ) the best selection is in Europe. The failed Jumper market makes good upper level Hunters.Lots of choice at reasonable prices.

Not that many US bred horses for sale in the 'ready to go 3’6" ’ group.
It has nothing to do with the quality of the horses bred, it has everything to do with providing an end product that meets market demand.

Inspection scores don’t mean anything to a person looking for a 'ready to go 3’6" 'horse.[/QUOTE]

PTF, Really good point. The amount of time and money it takes to breed and train a foal to be ready to show in the 3’ Pregreen hunter division, much less the 3’6" first year hunter division is going to exceed what it would cost to buy a young hunter prospect from Europe that isn’t going to make it in the European jumper ring.
That being said, I am still a proponent of hunter breeding in the US. The problem is that by the time they’re ready to show in the hunter ring, you’ve got more invested in them than what you could probably sell them for, unless they are extremely gifted.

[fordtraktor]

And finally, I would never advocate for POOR or BAD or UNFLATTERING pictures/videos. But the thing is…you can make a good video or take a good picture without spending a lot of money. Frankly, my iphone takes a pretty nice video/photo.

I agree. Just because something is not braided and clipped within an inch of its life does not mean the media will be bad. I think those of us advocating that it is OK to just knock the mud off were not advocating posting bad video – horses do not need to be spiffed to the nines to show they are gorgeous movers with loads of talent. I do not see an amazing mover and thing, “Gosh, he sure would be a nice horse if he didn’t have ear tufties…” Anyone actually qualified to purchase a baby should be able to see the same off a good video.

Better to focus on the gaits and the movement than the clip job on a baby, any day. A good video is good because it shows the horse’s movement to advantage, not because the horse was clean. Lipstick on a pig and vice versa. Of course it is always best to have pristine videos (and required if you want top dollar, I’d imagine), but if that can’t be done… And you actually DO want to sell youngsters…

[okggo]

[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;5863553]
Simple solution for one-line email inquiries - politely request that they phone you at their convenience and say you would be happy to discuss in further detail.

I have received one-line emails with multiple typos that at first glance look like a foreign scam but turned out to be inquiries from very serious clients who apparently were texting while driving or something! I try to avoid making assumptions, but I also am not going to type out a 3-page description of the horse in response (partiicularly when most info is available on my website and in my ads). I have received emails such as “Is X available? Tell me everything about X” that are not even signed. No, I am not going to invest a lot of time responding in writing to an inquiry like that.[/QUOTE]

That is similar to how I handle, and what I was thinking. I usually reply, yes they are still available, let me know if you want to know more. And I sign my name, maybe that is becoming old fashioned, but it seems impolite to not. I have yet to hear back beyond that point. I’ve had one come thru on dreamhorse 3 times from the same e-mail address. I started to wonder if my replies were going to spam, as I replied each time and then got the same question back. At this point I’m leaning toward thinking scam.

I’ve purchased horses as well, and I will ask if they are still available, but I’ll usually give my contact information and name, and request that they give me more information if they ARE still available. I want them to realize I am serious, I am human, and I am not trying to scam them

[LeeB10]

[QUOTE=annmcm;5859586]
The choice to purchase an American bred vs. European bred sporthorse is not an ethical or moral decision. It is based on simple economics. Buyers will go to where they can buy the best quality for the best price. If the U.S. breeders intend to be competitive in the international sporthorse market, they need to do just that!

Certainly, recent publications and marketing efforts have helped tremendously, to put American breeders in the spotlight.[/QUOTE]

The reason someone buys abroad is economics. If you are looking for the best horse with the most potential and at a price that is in your budget then you won’t care where it comes from.

When looking for a greenie for my daughter I consulted some of the local breeders. Their prices were WAY out of my range. We did buy from a home breeder as she was more reasonable. But really I know you breed to make money but if you want your horses out there making a name for you perhaps you should give a deal now and then. I’m not buying something out of my price range - especially when I know I can find something in my price range outside of the US. Don’t have the budget for it and I’m sure that is how others - even young riders - feel.

[EquusMagnificus]

There is a problem with the pricing of horses in NA in general I think.

People don’t approach this as a business and the expression “cut your losses” isn’t used often enough.

I.e.: A horse that was bred to the nines, yet is a dud. Buyers only care about their true market value, what you paid or the costs you incurred in producing said horse is not a factor unfortunately. It’s about what is it worth TODAY compared to horses in the same category.

This means continuously re-evaluating the value of your horses and if need be, “cut your losses” to remain competitive. Each day that goes by that you feed that horse is a loss if it isn’t worth what you have into it.

Europeans are more business-like. We just have to learn to be more that way. Or as Mary Lou said; position ourselves to compete with anyone, anywhere. That’s the global market we’re in now.

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

@LeeB10;5866081

…But really I know you breed to make money …

This sounds like the beginning of a bad joke!

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=Sakura Hill Farm;5866113]
This sounds like the beginning of a bad joke![/QUOTE]

Yet I don’t think anyone here honestly breeds to loose money either… :winkgrin:

It’s a bad side-effect, but no one aims at a loss! We all hope at least, to achieve a certain balance.

[LeeB10]

[QUOTE=Sakura Hill Farm;5866113]
This sounds like the beginning of a bad joke![/QUOTE]

Okay… I’ll say I don’t think you breed to loose money.

We are once again in the market and not talking about buying American because even in this economy I can’t find one in my daughters budget. Her budget isn’t huge but it isn’t dinky either. If she were to buy American she would have to get something far younger or something that will not do what she eventually wants it to do.

[Perfect_Pony]

@LeeB10;5866132

Okay… I’ll say I don’t think you breed to loose money.

We are once again in the market and not talking about buying American because even in this economy I can’t find one in my daughters budget. Her budget isn’t huge but it isn’t dinky either. If she were to buy American she would have to get something far younger or something that will not do what she eventually wants it to do.

I agree, the prices for started/going average 4-10 year olds in the US is incredibly high, even as compared to Canada. I would never have the budget, or want to spend that kind of $$ on a horse. With half the budget I have seen people go to Europe and get twice the horse.

However, I think there are some incredibly good deals on quality horses in the yearling to early 3 year old range. In that age range it pays to shop here IMO.

[LeeB10]

[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;5866322]
I agree, the prices for started/going average 4-10 year olds in the US is incredibly high, even as compared to Canada. I would never have the budget, or want to spend that kind of $$ on a horse. With half the budget I have seen people go to Europe and get twice the horse.

However, I think there are some incredibly good deals on quality horses in the yearling to early 3 year old range. In that age range it pays to shop here IMO.[/QUOTE]

But then the question is how many trainers are going to let you bring your unstarted three year old to their barn? Yes, they are a good deal but unless you have land or access to a boarding facility that can’t happen.

[fordtraktor]

Really, most trainers turn away babies? I thought they would love them, think of the years of training board!

[Perfect_Pony]

@LeeB10;5866381

But then the question is how many trainers are going to let you bring your unstarted three year old to their barn? Yes, they are a good deal but unless you have land or access to a boarding facility that can’t happen.

There’s always somewhere. We have loads of youngsters at my barn, for us DIYers, plus there are 2 trainers that love youngsters. I am only 15 minutes or so outside the city. I can think of half a dozen trainers in Sonoma County that love babies/youngsters too. A few down in the Livermore area. Lots up in the foothills. Not sure where you live.

Edited to add I see you do H/J, that’s a LITTLE tougher around here, but you don’t need a H/J trainer to start a youngster. Diane Yeager is great with starting the 3 year olds, probably one of the best in the business. For yearlings-3 year olds they are best out in the Central Valley or foothills until they are old enough to start. Sue Lightner is good with the babies and has loads of them.
http://www.lightacres.com/young-horse-program/

Where there is a will there’s a way.

[Xanthoria]

@EquusMagnificus;5866098

There is a problem with the pricing of horses in NA in general I think.

I agree. The price for all of the following youngsters appears to be the same:

A registered, inspected warmblood with both sire and dam ditto, with notable competiton careers extending back through the pedigree to the middle ages, lightly sprinkled with gold medals.

A registered WB with a performance career sire and an OTTB dam who did nothing except run slowly at the track.

A youngster with one parent who was a WB of some sort, no papers, who may or may not have had a career according to legend, and the dam was a paint or a draft cross.

Around here you might get $1-3k difference between the prices on these unbacked youngsters, but the prices go up $10K as soon as someone sets foot to stirrup.