Buying the Right Horse: Talent vs. Emotional Connection?

[Edre]

To the discussion of connection, I think it’s worth remembering that horses are as individual and variant as people. Some can be indiscriminately social/engaging/outgoing (and some of those can be that way to an overwhelming degree). Others are more reserved, but still willing to be affectionate/receive affection. Still others are more brusque and workmanlike and would rather have nothing to do with being pampered and fussed over.

If any horse falls into the second category, it can take longer to “bond” with them. That was my gelding. He was pleasant enough (and always modestly interested in people if there was a promise of food) but his attention/engagement was generally lackluster with most people. He had his favorites (my mother, oh god. She was his favorite person…) but even if someone was a “treat dispenser” for years, that didn’t really mean he cared for them beyond oh hey, treats are cool.

It took me a while to really click with him - probably 6-9 months? That said, we absolutely did click. It just took time.

(When I was shopping it really came down to him and one other - the other was certainly friendlier and more pleasant to interact with on the ground just because he was more engaging. I ended up going with the gelding I purchased because of some characteristics displayed under saddle - he was tremendously good minded. I don’t regret the choice, and have learned from the experience that much like people, some horses can take quite some time to get to know.)

[clanter]

@Edre

To the discussion of connection, I think it’s worth remembering that horses are as individual and variant as people. Some can be indiscriminately social/engaging/outgoing (and some of those can be that way to an overwhelming degree). .)

Our Bay horses appeared to hate Grays, at least they would not have anything to do with a Gray… just did not like being around a Gray horse at all

[xQHDQ]

I look at it this way…Horse are not motorcycles. They have personalities. Just like we don’t get along with every human we meet, we will not get along with all horses and vice versa. Having a connection is important, especially since this horse is your pet (you’re an amateur, so you’re choosing to ride and interact with this horse). Yes, a connection can grow, but I’ve found going with my gut to be the best for me - if there wasn’t that spark when I met him, there never will be, but if I have that feeling, even if it’s not an obvious “click,” it’s generally worked out.

[BeeHoney]

One other thing to consider is the circumstances in which you tried each horse. If the gelding seemed overly quiet to seemed to have an overly flat affect, it could be just him, or it could be that he was overly prepped for the sales appointment with either longeing, hard work, calming supplements, or worst case scenario–medication. Not saying that is the case, just throwing another consideration out there.

As for the mare, mare personalities can be very changeable throughout the course of heat cycles. Mares can be lovey dovey one day and tense and irritable the next. So, keep in mind that you may have ridden this mare on the best day of her cycle, and there might be more to her real life personality. I particularly enjoy mares, but they can have a very wide range of mood.

I really care very little what a horse’s “personality” is on the ground, as long as the horse has basic ground manners and is reasonable to handle. IME what most people interpret as a cute personality is often a pushy and annoying horse, or a horse that is used to getting treats. I put a lot more value on how the horse responds to me in the tack. Is the horse a willing worker? Does the horse respond promptly to the aids or respond with laziness/attitude? When you head for a jump, does the horse “lock in” and have it’s ears pricked/show signs that it is enjoying the work? Or does the horse seem less committed or unfocused? Does the horse ignore you when it gets tense or worried or bored? Does the horse keep it’s eyes in the ring or is it searching for distraction?

Don’t make the mistake of underestimating a “boring” or impersonal horse. These worker bees are gems–trustworthy, willing and uncomplicated partners who are very worthy of love and adoration.

[WildLittleWren]

I think that it depends on what your goal is. Is it the connection and fun of having a horse you want to have a close relationship with, on AND off the horse? Or are you a competitive person who wants to win and be one of the best?

It is a highly individual decision. For me, I got my mare because I felt a connection to her. As a dressage rider, a feral BLM mustang was not my “ideal” match and certainly won’t compete against horses BRED for dressage. However, over the last 15 months I have learned so much, and become a better horse person. I have a bond with her like I have never had with any other horse. And I have ridden and trained MANY horses of MANY different breeds, disciplines, and talent (and lack of talent).

For me, the connection is far more important than talent. A horse that you click with is one you WANT to go out and see, spend time with, and ride. For me, I would lose interest quickly and have much less motivation to go out and ride if I didn’t particularly care for the horse I owned, temperament wise or otherwise. I have also found that if you click with a horse (and vice versa), they will do ANYTHING for you. I always say my mare would follow me through fire. I think she looks forward to time with me as much as I look forward to time with her. I joke with my husband that when we get our property ready and can bring her home, we may have to build a bedroom on for her

[anon38350891]

@BeeHoney

One other thing to consider is the circumstances in which you tried each horse. If the gelding seemed overly quiet to seemed to have an overly flat affect, it could be just him, or it could be that he was overly prepped for the sales appointment with either longeing, hard work, calming supplements, or worst case scenario–medication. Not saying that is the case, just throwing another consideration out there.

As for the mare, mare personalities can be very changeable throughout the course of heat cycles. Mares can be lovey dovey one day and tense and irritable the next. So, keep in mind that you may have ridden this mare on the best day of her cycle, and there might be more to her real life personality. I particularly enjoy mares, but they can have a very wide range of mood.

I really care very little what a horse’s “personality” is on the ground, as long as the horse has basic ground manners and is reasonable to handle. IME what most people interpret as a cute personality is often a pushy and annoying horse, or a horse that is used to getting treats. I put a lot more value on how the horse responds to me in the tack. Is the horse a willing worker? Does the horse respond promptly to the aids or respond with laziness/attitude? When you head for a jump, does the horse “lock in” and have it’s ears pricked/show signs that it is enjoying the work? Or does the horse seem less committed or unfocused? Does the horse ignore you when it gets tense or worried or bored? Does the horse keep it’s eyes in the ring or is it searching for distraction?

Don’t make the mistake of underestimating a “boring” or impersonal horse. These worker bees are gems–trustworthy, willing and uncomplicated partners who are very worthy of love and adoration.

This is a great post.

[Edre]

@BeeHoney

I really care very little what a horse’s “personality” is on the ground, as long as the horse has basic ground manners and is reasonable to handle. IME what most people interpret as a cute personality is often a pushy and annoying horse, or a horse that is used to getting treats. I put a lot more value on how the horse responds to me in the tack. Is the horse a willing worker? Does the horse respond promptly to the aids or respond with laziness/attitude? When you head for a jump, does the horse “lock in” and have it’s ears pricked/show signs that it is enjoying the work? Or does the horse seem less committed or unfocused? Does the horse ignore you when it gets tense or worried or bored? Does the horse keep it’s eyes in the ring or is it searching for distraction?

Don’t make the mistake of underestimating a “boring” or impersonal horse. These worker bees are gems–trustworthy, willing and uncomplicated partners who are very worthy of love and adoration.

I really like BeeHoney’s post and think it has some really valuable commentary.

That said, I think it’s worth stating that personality does matter for certain types of buyers. A person who is looking for a horse to ride sporadically but wishes to spend time grooming/interacting with on the ground, personality/engagement will matter quite a bit. A great example is a friend’s older mother - she wants to ride recreationally, and when shopping found a number of horses who would fit the bill marvelously. However, they simply didn’t enjoy what she liked to do to spend time with them - didn’t like being groomed, didn’t want human “company”/engagement/simply weren’t curious or invested in human interaction at all. It was a dealbreaker for her, because while she does ride routinely, she’ll spend a good portion of her time just grooming/enjoying her horses on the ground. She ended up passing on many horses until finding a charming little QH mare who is delightfully well mannered, engaging, and is quite pleased to be groomed/fussed over for as long as anyone will.

What a person “wants” out of a horse will really play into this. If goals are show/performance driven (or predominantly riding oriented), personality or “bond” is a bit more negotiable (and those workman like personalities really can shine - and many of them are delightful horses in their own right, just request appreciation in a different way from people). On the other hand, for purchasers who anticipate a different path/want different things, having a people-oriented personality (or even people-oriented curiousity) can be more important.

[meupatdoes]

@crestinglight

I’m really not interested in arguments, I find it fascinating that people seem to judge a situation they have no information on, and a person they have literally never met.

Call me inexperienced if you’d like, that’s fine, but people don’t become more experienced without… having experiences.

I’m 5’1", and I was alone in an arena with a horse I’d never met before, who is 17hh. There was no mounting block. He was rather nervous and bit overwhelmed. “But amazingly they only try that with people they know they can get away with it,” we had met for 2 minutes. He didn’t “know” anything about me, whether he could “get away with it” or not. We figured it out, and everything went very well in the end.

These kinds of responses are the reason people don’t like the horse community. This condescending, “I’m better than you and I know everything there is to know about you, your experience level, and horses,” attitude isn’t helpful. Being constructive like, “The next time he does that, try this…” is a lot more helpful.

I never claimed to be a professional, a Grand Prix rider, or anything else. I have a lot to learn, and the only way to learn is to move forward, struggle, have experiences, and do the best you can to get better and better as you go.

Horses can read our body language in 0.5 seconds and figure out who they can try stuff with. Probably he tossed his head because you approached more .from the front and didn’t have your right arm around his face. They don’t need to know you well to figure that one out. You can tell instantly the actor in war horse has never handled a horse before because he tries to put the collar on from in front of the horse, rather than standing “behind” at the throatlatch and bringing it up and around from underneath. Most bridling issues ARE human inexperience issues, this is not an offensive slight but just a fact. If I posted on here that I was having x y and z issues with introducing passage and someone replied, you sound inexperienced at introducing passage,that’s not offensive, I AM inexperienced at introducing passage. Why get in a huff???

That said, it’s incredibly annoying when people say critical stuff without making suggestions what TO DO instead. So here are suggestions what to do instead:

1. If he gets to the point where his head is higher than you want it, gently swing the bight of the reins over his nose and pull down. Voila. (Stand BEHIND his face at his throatlatch and swing the bight up and around from underneath. Don’t come at him with it from the front!!)

2. Then, standing at his left throatlatch facing forward, bring your right arm holding the bridle under his neck, your arm along the right side of his nose, and hold the front of his face with your right hand with the bridle in your hand as well. If you have your hand under and around his head like this it will be hard for him to toss his head away from you. (See also: haktering, dewor,ing, clipping, putting earplugs in, etc) I hold the whole bridle around the cheekpieces so that wherever I am holding his nose, his bit is right near his lips. Then use your left hand to put the bit in his mouth and once he says ah, use your right hand to put the rest of the bridle up.

https://youtu.be/pg4VnhSxd30

[IdahoRider]

I felt little connection to Noodle when I first got him. I had seen him for sale, this is a smaller horse community than you would think given the numbers. But he was far out of my price range. I ended up purchasing a mare that was way beyond my skill level. And as the universe would have it, I ended up trading the mare for Noodle a couple of months later. That was 14 years ago and he is everything I ever dreamed about as a horse crazy, horseless kid. And then some. It just took some time to build that bond.

With my mare I felt a pull towards her from the moment I sat on her. She was so easy and quiet. I just wanted her. And had to move heaven and earth to get her. I just knew she was the one for me.

So I have had it go both ways. And each has led to a rich and rewarding bond eventually.
Sheilah

[aregard]

Given my taste in men…:eek: I don’t rely on emotion much when picking horses.

[Denali6298]

@aregard

Given my taste in men…:eek: I don’t rely on emotion much when picking horses.

:lol::lol::lol: I can definitely pick my horses better than I can pick my men. :yes:

[SuzieQNutter]

@aregard

Given my taste in men…:eek: I don’t rely on emotion much when picking horses.

BAHAHAHAHA

[lesson_junkie]

OP-you will learn to like the gelding well enough if he carts you around and lets you learn to jump 3’6 to 4’. Also, if you end up needing to sell this horse on, a WB cross gelding will be easier to sell than a little mare of any flavor.

That said, if you like the mare enough to adjust your riding goals to her talent, don’t let anyone talk you out of it. For me, it was love at first sight with my Dutch horse, he was a just backed 2yo when I bought him 16 years ago. It was apparent very quickly that he wasn’t going to fox hunt, he was a show hunter through and through. I should have sold him, but loved him too much to part with him. He taught me to ride a hunter course, and how to stick with a big bascule, and I’m a better rider for it.

He’s turned 18 this spring-do you think he’d like the hounds any better now?

[RedHorses]

When you revisit these horses pay very close attention to your OWN physical comfort on each. How does the horse’s body fit your body? Can you comfortably hold on with your legs as the horse jumps? Do you feel stretched in your hips? Do you feel you can easily put your legs in position and keep them there?

I ask because I had a horse who was too big for me and I am 5’5". He was only 16.1h but big barreled. I could ride him bareback or dressage, but slap a jumping saddle on him and he would jump right through my legs. He was exactly wide enough to have my legs be past the point on having the strength to close my leg on him enough to keep me in place when he jumped. They weren’t huge, back cracker bascule jumps either. I know he was exactly that width because removing the thickness of the girth from under my leg (I got a saddle with long billets) suddnely, magically allowed me to keep my leg on and stay with him over jumps. I had that horse a long time, to the end of his life, and enjoyed riding him, but he was a bit too big physically for me to be completely comfortable on him.

Size became more important to me when considering a horse. The two horses I have now are physically sized better for me than that one. I have ridden many different sizes of horse without issue, but I recognized that some were more comfortable than others.

It’s not just height, but barrel width as well. I have ridden a 17.3h horse who was narrower than my 16.1h fellow. I wouldn’t have bought him for myself though.

My two are around 15.3h now and both suit my body nicely. Both were under one month old when I bought them. The second was told often that he’d better not grow too big or I’d sell him.

I want to say the first was an emotional connection, but I did have a detailed list of what I wanted in my next horse and he stood a very good chance of ticking all the boxes. In the end he did tick all the boxes and has been the absolutely perfect horse for me.

The second had a good chance of ticking all the boxes, and I had ridden his dam and knew his granddam as well. They had stellar personalities, try, and work ethics. I liked him, but I did buy him for his breeding (potential talent). He has been tough and if I didn’t like him (personality) so much I’d have given up and sold him long ago. It’s been a long haul, but he reached a turning point two years ago and has been doing really well ever since.

Do consider physical fit when you go and ride these horses again. They might both fit fine, but it’s harder to learn skills when you are not comfortable physically on the horse.

Good luck!

[anon38350891]

I think it’s important when evaluating the “connection” WE feel with a strange horse, to remember that they are in a strange circumstance too. Not all horses will behave the same way in these circumstances i.e. ‘bare their souls’. In some cases the seller is experiencing stress and anxiety; in some cases the handler is a relative stranger. The horse may have been dragged out in some haste, or standing around for hours contra his routine.

Then up comes this total stranger, poking and prodding, radiating uncertainty in some cases, radiating inexperience in others.

Then this stranger mounts up and gives a set of possibly unfamiliar cues in a definitely unfamiliar way. Horse is expected to respond like a well-oiled machine AND radiate warm fuzzies?

When I bought my inappropriate OTTB whom I Ioved dearly, his potential seller was facing a troubled divorce and was sobbing about how she wanted him to be a “backyard pet” and “member of the family”, and on and on. I got out of there and she proceeded to call me daily with cute stories about him. I came back - gales of tears again. Finally she managed to calm down enough to haggle price brutally. On the day I picked him up, she was crying again and he had explosive diarrhea.

This is probably more emotion than the average, by a factor of 100. But my point is: the horse is also subject to variable response to an unfamiliar type of day, and they are definitely creatures of routine.

[retiredhorse]

I’ve always bought for talent/riding suitability, and the emotional connection came after – sometimes their personalities change after a few weeks in a different program, anyway. I’ve never minded standoffish horses, they’ve always come around. For me, far more preferable to the pushy/ill-mannered ones, which takes more training to undo unwanted behavior, I think. Also, ime, the hardest ones to connect with were also the ones that were most frustrating to ride.

[tabula_rashah]

I have both. One of my horses I honestly bought just because I like him so much. He doesn’t match in the slightest with my goals (he’s had tie back surgery and even fit isn’t good for more than a couple hours of exercise, I do endurance and CTR). If I found someone to free lease him I’d be thrilled but I don’t know that I’d ever sell him. I have one horse that I got 100% for her talent- I don’t really like her and I’ve pretty much retired her at this point. A friend of mine who loves her keeps her as a companion for her horse. Then I have 3 that have both the talent and the personality that I love. One I’ve had for 24 years (since she was born) and the other two I bought and started from scratch. I guess what I’m getting at is that I would put conformation & soundness first, personality and connection 2nd and talent last for me because talent is the only one of those things that you can develop.

[joiedevie99]

Neither of these horses sound quite right. The gelding sounds like he might be too big for you. The curly mare at 15hh may not have the stride length to be competitive at the shows your barn does. That is a question for your trainer. That horse will certainly be a hard sell when it is time for you to move up - which may be sooner than you think. Devoted beginners in the h/j world can end up looking for a new horse after 2/3 seasons.

In terms of emotional connection, it’s pretty low on my list. It develops with time if they rest of the story is right. Rideability is high on my list though - do I feel comfortable riding the horse, and does he respond to my aids (or at least try without getting frustrated, I don’t expect perfect communication on ride 1). Does my trainer feel the horse will suit my ambitions and be as competitive as we want him to be for the next 2 years (how competitive that is varies widely by person/budget)? Would my trainer feel comfortable marketing him when it is time to sell the horse on?

[Redlei44]

Personally, I would only consider “emotional connection” or “clicking” as far as they applied to feeling more safe, physically comfortable, and competent during the test ride. Perhaps that’s what you meant? Like, literally both horses felt equally comfy, you rode both horses equally well and felt equally as confident on both? And secondarily, they are both equally likely to meet both your near and long term goals? Then I would consider my trainer’s advice, assuming that I had a good relationship with him/her and even better, that I knew that he/she had a proven track record of helping clients like me buy suitable mounts.

Get those second rides if you can, then talk to your trainer about all the factors. You can’t blame him for leaning toward the more typical or fancier type, but he should be willing to lay out exactly why he thinks that his choice would be better for you. Arguments like “you rode the typical one better in x,y,z ways” or “the typical horse’s background suits this sport and your goals better because x,y,z”, I would lean toward taking his professional advice when choosing. Arguments like “more resellable”, maybe you override the trainers advice because you don’t need it to be resellable.

[subk]

@anon38350891

I think the whole “instant emotional connection” thing is bogus. Horses don’t speak human emotional language. They have their own language and it can be misunderstood by us.

When we say 'I just really clicked with horse x", often I believe we are projecting something onto the horse.

^This^

I’m an amateur who has been doing this for 40 years and owned dozens of horses. I have never gotten an accurate read on a horse’s “personality” after a single ride or two–much less gotten a “connection.” (Having produced a long format three day horse event horse from scratch I can assure you that I intimately know what one of these “connections” is and feels like!) Many horses especially those coming from large professional situations like the track or a big performance barn where they don’t have their own person are “closed.” It takes time and security for them to open up. Sometimes it can take as much as a year, although when you are the person who not only rides, but brings them in, turns them out and cleans their stall it tends to happens faster.

The first reads you start getting are typically more related to establishing hierarchy than any personality. That oh so sweet boy who came right up to you and wanted to nuzzle you and checked your pockets out? He doesn’t give a crap about you. He is probably trying to establish dominance, and you not realizing that he was engaging you in a competition are probably losing. I believe that much of what we see and label a horse’s “personality” is really more of an expression of their and your hierarchy.

Inter-species connections are built and they take time–unless you are Walt Disney. If you want one, start by understanding that your horse is a herd animal and that herd animals live and die by hierarchies. Just as important understand that they are prey animals and no matter how domesticated they are, emotionally, mentally and sometimes biologically they function as such. Work very hard at not anthropomorphizing your horse. By trying to define their actions by labeling them with human characteristics you will miss what is truly amazing and spectacular about these creatures who are their own unique and wonderful species.

All that to say, I wouldn’t put any stock–or make a decision about purchase–based on what kind of “emotional connection” you initially had with either of these two horses.