I am wondering what people look at when considering buying a weanling? Do you consider the conformation of the baby at all, or just look at what the parents look like? Do you consider movement at all?
I would get as much genetic testing done as possible and assess foal and parent conformation and parent performance and health.
It’s not at all unusual for Thoroughbreds to be sold as weanlings. I probably see more than a thousand every year. If I were in the market, I would consider conformation to be of prime importance, along with movement and temperament. Just looking at the parents only gives you a piece of the story. I would also xray pretty extensively.
The pedigree first, then evaluate the foal. You can tell a lot even at a young age. Conformation and gaits but the gaits are not always consistent so you have to watch for the glimmer of talent sometime if it isn’t obvious. Jumping talent is very hard to tell beyond the parents and gaits. Some body parts grow disproportionately but some angles do not change much.
The biggest thing is the dam and how proven she is as a broodmare. The stallion is usually easier to get information on but the mare is the part of the equation to investigate.
X-rays are not conclusive with a weanling and many wb sales do not do them that young because it will change so much.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-356632.html
I have sold most of my (small number) of foals while still at their dam’s side. People are predominately looking at pedigrees, the parents, and then the foal itself. Conformation, movement, etc are important. None of my buyers has ever done xrays nor would I do so if buying a foal because they are incredibly inconclusive. If I were a buyer I would also be interested in the reputation of the breeder, the facility if the foal is still at it’s dam’s side, and the care it would be receiving. I prefer 24/7 turnout for babies with unlimited forage (hay or grass) and minimal grain, high quality ration balancer preferred.
[QUOTE=LaurieB;8871083]
I would also xray pretty extensively.[/QUOTE]
A weanling ???
And if yes - what exactly ?
[QUOTE=Draftmare;8870921]
I am wondering what people look at when considering buying a weanling? Do you consider the conformation of the baby at all, or just look at what the parents look like? Do you consider movement at all?[/QUOTE]
I guess it depends on the kind of weanling you look at.
If it is a cross, I would look only at the weanling its conformation and movement and then assume how he will look later.
If you buy a weanling from a registry then you could look at the parents as well. Depending what you want to do with the weanling later on you might also look at the performance and producing record of the parents and maybe of the grandparents if the parents did not produce anything.
About the health, there are studies which show that x-rays will not tell you much until the weanling is about 2. But I would still recommend a clinical examination by a vet additionally to a personal assessment.
Look for the pedigree you are interested in first, then evaluate its conformation. The pedigree will tell you how the offspring of either the mare or the stallion have done in the past, so that’s of huge importance.
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Certain conformation traits can be looked at - how the neck is set (low or high), long or short back, straightness of legs, how the neck connects to the head. But remember, leg angles, uphill/downhill, bone, feet, will change significantly as the baby matures.
I have sold a few weanlings over the years - I would show parents, full and half siblings (video and pics), and of course, sire performance (and if relevant dam - most of my mares had performance records). Weanlings are tough - you get glimmers of how they will move, but you really need an educated eye to assess.
Sometimes those “wow” baby gaits translate into - way too hard to balance and collect. So that is something to keep in mind, until you’ve seen a lot of babies, that is a risk.
Agree, xrays are pretty useless. I won’t allow a vet to do flexions on a baby - but a vet can assess heart, lungs, and watch them move on hard and soft ground.
If a person doesn’t have property to raise a baby on, I’d also recommend looking for someone who can pasture board the weaner for a few years - and feed it properly. Which means not overloaded with grain, not overloaded with alfalfa. A balanced diet - grass type hay, a bit of alfalfa, a ration balancer, fresh pasture at least part of the year…
Pedigree, gaits, basic bone structure. I want something that is bred to do the thing I want it to do (and preferably has successful siblings/out of a proven mare). I also want it to have light, fluid, correct gaits with lots of swing but not necessarily flashy. And I want something pretty and I am a sucker for a nice canter. correct bone structure.
I think yearlings are harder than weanlings to assess. They seem to go through so many stages where they just look weird that year.
Sometimes it is more instinct than a paper checklist – something about a horse jumps out at you and you can just see the quality. In the eye, the way it carries itself…some babies just “have it” and the really special ones like that tend to keep it.
[QUOTE=alexandra;8871770]
A weanling ???
And if yes - what exactly ?[/QUOTE]
Also wondering the theory behind this? Genetic testing I can understand, but xraying seems odd.
[QUOTE=alexandra;8871770]
A weanling ???
And if yes - what exactly ?[/QUOTE]
Yes, a weanling. Things must be done differently with warmbloods, I guess, but all TB weanlings offered for sale are xrayed. Knees, hocks, ankles and stifles.
The more I read, the more I am wondering about if the feeding this weanling is getting may be setting her up for disaster. She is currently getting a sweet feed looking grain with oats mixed in. Her sire is halter bred, her dam is pleasure bred. She came as “bonus” when the BO bought a group of broodmares for her program. She was a twin, though the other twin passed away. She doesn’t seem to have any ill effects of being a twin though. To me she looks like she has a good hip and a good shoulder angle. Neck is set typical for a western bred quarter horse. She already has a fairly natural level way of carrying herself, though it looks like she also inherited some of the halter bulk too. My goals would be western all around with her, though right now she moves more like an english horse.
I would be very, very reluctant to buy the horse you describe for what you want to do, and I like QHs. You have to be careful with buying something just because it is there. There are so many nice, well-bred QHs available that are very inexpensive. At least do some serious shopping before you commit to this horse and have a pro in the area you want the horse to succeed evaluate its potential for you. Especially if you are concerned that the movement you need isn’t going to be there.
There is less and less overlap between halter-type and western-type horses these days. 50 years ago they were basically interchangeable, but those days are long gone. I’d steer clear of anything halter-bred up close. Too much weight on little feet to hold up to a lifetime of work.
Do you want something for pleasure, horsemanship and trail type events or reining, working cow horse and that kind of event? I’d look for very different bloodlines based on your answer.
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[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8876364]
I would be very, very reluctant to buy the horse you describe for what you want to do, and I like QHs. You have to be careful with buying something just because it is there. There are so many nice, well-bred QHs available that are very inexpensive. At least do some serious shopping before you commit to this horse and have a pro in the area you want the horse to succeed evaluate its potential for you. Especially if you are concerned that the movement you need isn’t going to be there.
There is less and less overlap between halter-type and western-type horses these days. 50 years ago they were basically interchangeable, but those days are long gone. I’d steer clear of anything halter-bred up close. Too much weight on little feet to hold up to a lifetime of work.
Do you want something for pleasure, horsemanship and trail type events or reining, working cow horse and that kind of event? I’d look for very different bloodlines based on your answer.[/QUOTE]
What about the description don’t you like? Is it just the halter breeding? She is already a pretty hefty girl, could easily go into the weanling halter classes without much work. I would maybe consider showing her in halter as a yearling - three year old until she can be broke out. My last horse was a halter bred Appaloosa, and she was sound until the day she died. However, she was also built on strong legs and good hooves. Is there any way to look at a weanling and know if their feet and legs are going to be proportionate to the rest of their body?
My concerns are…right now she looks very table backed with no wither. Not sure if that will change as she grows or not. Could be hard to fit a saddle to. And that she is a little base narrow, but I am not sure if that is also something that she may grow out of.
Looking at western pleasure, though my focuses would be the pattern classes, those are the ones that I love to do, as well as showmanship and maybe performance halter. I would also love to give the newer ranch riding classes a try. I would like a horse that could be competitive in AQHA shows, and in my area it seems like I am going to have to buy young in order to afford that.
Well, all I know is that I have a TON of friends who show quarter horses at high levels (Congress, World Show, etc.) from my childhood days. None of their western pleasure or HUS horses have halter blood. None of the halter horses have any performance lines. The western or HUS ones sometimes do performance halter but it is VERY rare to find a horse that will be successful at AQHA shows in regular halter and also performance classes. It is a TOTALLY different look of horse, at least to me. So yes, the description of her as a halter-looking beefy type would make me cross her off my list as a long term performance prospect. Of course that could be wrong, just going by your description.
My advice – and you should ignore if this isn’t what you want in a horse or if the pros you work with say the baby is actually more of a performance type – don’t look at stallion pics to determine what the proper type is for a WP prospect. Watch the 2 year old WP classes. At that point, even horses that get a bit bigger as stallions (common bc testosterone, etc.) were not at all halter-like. If it is beefy as a baby I expect too much beef as an adult horse to maintain the performance look. For example, watch VS Flatline’s video. His current pictures are WAY beefier now than he was as a 2 and 3 year old when he was still quite svelte. His “bulk” is not the kind that halter horses have, even now – the hind end is all different and wrong for halter. I would look for an elegant baby, not a halter baby.
better yet, look at VS Code Red’s video. He’s still not beefy at all and has the type I’d look for in a pleasure prospect myself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m_Ha8_LP58
Again, all personal preference, if you like the beefier horses that’s OK. I just don’t care for them myself.
FWIW, I have had several WP-bred horses who were great performers. My Zippo Pine Bar pony won a lot in the 3’6 jumper divisions at USEF shows. I really like quarter horses but the performance ones.
[QUOTE=alexandra;8871770]
A weanling ???
And if yes - what exactly ?[/QUOTE]
this is where the two sports diverge entirely…
it’d be pretty dumb to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on a weanling race horse and not x-ray or ultrasound. for WBs, it’s a little different… but generally, one is looking for OCD, looking at the hocks/stifles especially, nasal cavity, congenital defects in the heart/lungs…
for the average person not buying a future race-horse, one can see why x-rays or ultrasounds wouldn’t matter as much.
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[QUOTE=beowulf;8876444]
this is where the two sports diverge entirely…
it’d be pretty dumb to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on a weanling race horse and not x-ray or ultrasound. for WBs, it’s a little different… but generally, one is looking for OCD, looking at the hocks/stifles especially, nasal cavity, congenital defects in the heart/lungs…
for the average person not buying a future race-horse, one can see why x-rays or ultrasounds wouldn’t matter as much.[/QUOTE]
How soon does OCD show up? The youngest I have heard was a 4 year old OTTB.
[QUOTE=Draftmare;8876448]
How soon does OCD show up? The youngest I have heard was a 4 year old OTTB.[/QUOTE]
as early as their first steps on the ground, I imagine. OCD in foals is tricky - sometimes it’s just them growing and resolves, sometimes it needs surgery. Earliest I’ve personally witnessed was five months.
Draftmare, just so the difference is more clear – here is a webpage FULL of champion halter horse pics. Everything about the hindquarters and the straight/post legs behind is just wrong for performance. http://www.clarkrassi.com/main.html And these are breeders who have bred over 20 World Champions so these horses are representative of the “halter” style.
