Danceronice-True they have to have talent but bad training can ruin a good horse. Before John Henry and Seabiscuit were with the right trainer they did nothing.
It is a product of nature and nurture…
JMHO
[QUOTE=ivy62;7577667]
Danceronice-True they have to have talent but bad training can ruin a good horse. Before John Henry and Seabiscuit were with the right trainer they did nothing.
It is a product of nature and nurture…
JMHO[/QUOTE]
Any good trainer will tell you that there is no such thing as “good training”, only good horses.
Sometime style has everything to do with it though…
[QUOTE=ivy62;7577744]
Sometime style has everything to do with it though…[/QUOTE]
Some horses thrive off of a change. No trainer is going to “bring out” the ability in a horse though. Like the guys in the Asmussen barn say,
“All we can do is give them every chance to succeed.”
But there are also a lot of babies from high priced breedings that never do anything.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7577666]
There are always going to be horses who way out perform their pedigree. Those are the exceptions, not the rule however and should not be the basis of any breeding decisions.[/QUOTE]
But there are also a lot of babies from high priced breedings that never do anything.
So is it all chance? If the breeding is not something to hang your hat on and neither is the training, is it just as individual as any other siblings?
I guess the later has been proven over and over… Wasn’t Mahubah bred to FairPlay a few times? Only one Man O’War
[QUOTE=ivy62;7577984]
So is it all chance? If the breeding is not something to hang your hat on and neither is the training, is it just as individual as any other siblings?
I guess the later has been proven over and over… Wasn’t Mahubah bred to FairPlay a few times? Only one Man O’War[/QUOTE]
I absolutely do not believe it is all chance. But just breeding a champion to a champion does not guarantee a champion progeny.
To improve odds you have to study and understand conformation and pedigrees. I am not convinced that everyone who is breeding does.
You also need to be breeding to create a race horse, not a star in the yearling auction.
Oh, for the love of God.
We have centuries of breeding, not just racehorses, but other sporthorses, and not just horses, but racing dogs, beef cattle, sheep… you name it, any number of animals, that demonstrates that selectively breeding the best to the best will statistically increase your chances of producing the best.
This is not even up for debate. There are few things in the world tracked more closely that the breeding of racehorses. We have stats out the arse that track the performance of breedings. These tell us that invariably the “best” produce the best.
Yes there are outliers. Outliers are the exceptions not the rule.
Yes you will get lucky every once in a while with an Ol Bob Bowers siring a John Henry. But there is a reason a stallion like Galileo’s stud fee is around $300k, just look at the sheer volume of top class horses he sires.
Exactly. And anyone who thinks it does is welcome to come to my parents’ place and meet Silverbulletday’s A.P. Indy colt, whose best performance was placing in an ungraded stakes at Fairplex. Currently he’s only champion of eating everyone out of house and home.
You also need to be breeding to create a race horse, not a star in the yearling auction.
A-freakin-men.
Baffert high on CC
I might not have picked California Chrome in the Derby, but its clear that this horse knows how the win, and I have a hard time seeing any other horse in this small field being able to derail Chrome’s Triple Crown aspirations in Pimlico.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7514662]
Avalyn Hunter has done a couple of Blood Horse articles recently about him and about Mr. P.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/84028/vein-of-gold
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/83775/california-chrome-chasing-the-derby-dream[/QUOTE]
an amazing 9 out of 10 horses in the Preakness are Mr. P breds. Pablo Del Monte is not, Social Inclusion its quite a ways back and every one else its pretty up close
I am sure Lucky Pulpits stud fee will be going way up next year! But…here is the deal with CC> its about his dam. She is by Not For Love. Now there was a good looking horse. I think in CCs case the dam has a lot to do with it…
[QUOTE=SportArab;7578007]
I absolutely do not believe it is all chance. But just breeding a champion to a champion does not guarantee a champion progeny.
To improve odds you have to study and understand conformation and pedigrees. I am not convinced that everyone who is breeding does.
You also need to be breeding to create a race horse, not a star in the yearling auction.[/QUOTE]
With more emphasis on pedigree. Of course no blanket statement ever includes everyone . But, I looked at stallions at one of the biggest stud farms in PA/MD for my TB mare. In fact I went twice to re-look at my short list. The stallion manager told me to come as often as I like…he likes showing their stallions and very few mare owners actually come and look at the stallions…most breeders arrange everything on paper. Another interesting breeding experience came from visiting a bigger breeding farm in Chester County. I knew the guy so could discuss the whys of his breeding thoughts a bit. He was downsizing so he could move to FL, offered me some bargain prices on some of his “best mares” to cut down numbers/ and friend discount. The one he showed me had her eye rolled back in her head, up right shoulder, upright pasterns, steep shoulder, short choppy gait. One look at her was a NO. It was so emphatic he looked at me funny and said why not? I pointed out all those things and he shrugged and said “but so what? She won 100K. She can move those short choppy legs real fast.” in her case maybe she can…but it isn’t the horse I want to build! I looked at another horse. 17 H beauty / Pleasant Colony bred with big butt, lovely confo, kind eye. I said now there is a horse! He looked at me and said you want the plow horse? She couldn’t race til she was 4, fool horse had big growth spurts til then. Which points to why we are probably losing some of the good old time bloodlines. If it isn’t quick to mature, its being bred out of the TBs. And finally on confo.we discussed the flaws I was looking at. He shrugged again. Said he bred speed to speed on papers. His horses won. He tried breeding for confo. His horses didn’t win. So he went back to breeding speed to speed. His horses won…so now he really doesn’t care if they have crooked legs.
I just heard of the blisters found in California Chrome’s throat. After doing some research online I see this is common in young race horses. Usually due to strep. I am just wondering how this will affect his run today. I know I wouldn’t want to run if I had a blister in my throat. Knowing that running puts extreme pressure on a horse.
Anyone have any experience with this that could chime in? I am interested in learning more along with treatment, etc. Thanks
[QUOTE=msrobin;7581506]
I just heard of the blisters found in California Chrome’s throat. After doing some research online I see this is common in young race horses. Usually due to strep. I am just wondering how this will affect his run today. I know I wouldn’t want to run if I had a blister in my throat. Knowing that running puts extreme pressure on a horse.
Anyone have any experience with this that could chime in? I am interested in learning more along with treatment, etc. Thanks[/QUOTE]
There is a video news from yesterday on Bloodhorse. There it was said that CC had a blister in his throat before the KY Derby and it’s reappeared. According to this report, the vet exam cleared him to race. But, with the Triple Crown on the line, his owners would probably want him to race.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/videos/13248/preakness-stakes-news-update-for-may-16-2014
HELL YEAH!!
Bring on the Belmont.
I like that he got a challenge today.
I wondered there for a second if he was going to pull it off!!
[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;7581616]
HELL YEAH!!
Bring on the Belmont.
I like that he got a challenge today.[/QUOTE]
Whooppeeee!
