Calling pedigree gurus! I love some input on this OTTB pedigree.

Hi! I am a long time reader and have gained so much knowledge from reading on here. My older Eventing partner is ready to retire and I am vetting this new OTTB to bring along. I know there are some people on here that know a thing or two on pedigrees. I just love learning about the lines and would love to hear your thoughts!!
TIA!
http://www.pedigreequery.com/mansart2

and for more fun this is my old war horse’s pedigree who is retiring to teach some new riders to the sport as he is not ready to not have a job quite yet.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/black+box2

I will try and post some pictures/video as well. Thanks!!!

I have a friend who has a Medaglia D’Oro horse. He’s very cool. I have heard that many of them roar (but so do lots of TBs).

I haven’t had much luck with Medaglia D’Oro horses - they do have a reputation for breathing issues, but the ones I’ve known have also been unsound… but chicken/egg query - are they unsound because they’re pushed early because of their reputation, or are they unsound because of structural reasons? I honestly don’t know. They’re almost always gorgeous horses to behold though.

MDO has El Prado, son of Sadler’s Wells, who has a reputation for good movement and athletic ability. You have AP Indy bottom side, who is popular among eventers for his stamp - he consistently passes on conformation and heart. IMHO I am not 100% convinced AP Indy is the best bid for UL contention (I’ve mentioned it in another thread - they have soundness and heart but I think athletically they are usually limited to below Prelim).

OOOOh, a Darley-bred colt… la da dee!!

Is he a colt or gelding? I adore that female line so much! Keep him entire and let me breed to him!

Thank you guys for the input!!! It’s so interesting. He is 4 never raced, and has a roar that was rated a grade 1. So it was interesting to hear the ties in his line to it. Unfortunately he is gelded lol. He is a great mover. So as long as his vetting goes well (I do have concerns for his front legs as he can be foot sore but works out of it) I will be excited to see what we can do. I will be happy with training, prelim would be a bonus.

So…Colleen Rutledges Very Fancy horse Clever Deception is by Medaglio D Oro…I have had spectacular luck with those horses and a few of MDO sons who are,at stud…not a single 1 Roared!!
Bonus on your guys pedigree is,the A P Indy on dam side…send us pictures! I am jealous!!
I often find weaknesses come from the dam side…an it gets blamed on sire.
You should have a gorgeous mover athletic jumper…Potentially with personality who prefers his own person…Enjoy

I just videoed him schooling xc with my trainer. I am very fortunate to be able to “test run” this guy. I will do my best to figure out how to post video, as I am super new to this board.

He has the quietest mind I have seen in a youngster, incredibly sweet! My older guy is a super level headed quirky guy. Thanks again for the input!

[QUOTE=HiJumpGrrl;8355003]
I have a friend who has a Medaglia D’Oro horse. He’s very cool. I have heard that many of them roar (but so do lots of TBs).[/QUOTE]

Not trying to be snarky but saying "but so do lots of TBs"is casting a very wide blanket and is a bit absurd to say.

I have worked with and around TBs my whole life. I can only think of a few that “roar”.

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[QUOTE=gumtree;8356364]
Not trying to be snarky but saying "but so do lots of TBs"is casting a very wide blanket and is a bit absurd to say.

I have worked with and around TBs my whole life. I can only think of a few that “roar”.[/QUOTE]

I can count on one hand the amount of TBs I’ve encountered that have roared… 2 were MDO horses.

On the other hand, I can’t count how many WBs I’ve met that roared. Food for thought. :winkgrin:

gumtree, so have i worked with and around TBs an awful lot. I love them. Many roar. Mine does :slight_smile: not saying it to be judgemental.

per the Merk Veterinary Manual, it is associated with male horses and breeds with longer necks, so not surprising that you have known WBs that roar. Also according to the same source, “The prevalence in young Thoroughbreds presented for sale is estimated to be ~3%–5%.” (http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/respiratory_system/respiratory_diseases_of_horses/laryngeal_hemiplegia_in_horses.html) That’s a lot of TBs!

Since one of the premier mares in the development of the TB was a famous roarer (Marpessa, dam of Pocahontas), it’s not at all surprising that the genetics for roaring are present. Pocahontas is also very, very prevalent in WBs. No fewer than 5 of her foals were used in the development of Traks.

The Pocahontas son, Stockwell, is sire line for at least 85% of all TBs today

I don’t have any direct experience with the get of MDO. But I know several sport horse people who I respect who “seek” them out.

As to “they do have a reputation for breathing issues, but the ones I’ve known have also been unsound”

Being in the TB business I am privy to “inside information” long before it hits the “street”. When “negative information” does hit the street the market for a stallions foals will drop like rock.

Given the fact the MDO stands for $125,000 and his yearlings average over $300,000 for the last couple of years I doubt there is reason to believe he is “known” for getting horses with breathing and or soundness issues.

What needs to be kept in perspective by those who buy TBs in the “secondary market” especially those who buy at the bottom and or get one for free is the fact these are not the “cream of the crop”. Regardless of how they preformed on the racetrack. So they are not a “true” representation of a stallion and or mare’s over all “quality”.

Unlike warmblood breeders which is tightly “controled” and only the best by and large make it to the “open market”. TBs are not “culled” and “disposed of” that have “issues”. There is almost always someone willing to take a “shot”. When these horses end up in the secondary market people have a tendency to “knock” the breed and or “blood” based on very limited experience. Social Media “spreads” these perceived “knocks” like wild fire. It is what it is. I could spend all of my little free time on various TB forums correcting misinformation and or presenting the “big picture”.

This is a link to a full sister to the OP’s horse;

http://www.fasigtipton.com/catalogs/2014/0209/581.pdf

The filly was a 2 year old and sold in a “mixed” sale for only $33,000. Obviously the filly had issues. Other wise she would not have been a “cast off” by Darley. Darely as a rule doesn’t breed for the yearling market or the 2 year old in training market. It is rare to see a young horse of theirs to be offered at a public auction. If it is you can pretty much guarantee there are some sort of issues going on. But I am talking about the racing/breeding side of things.

It looks like this mare, Interior Design is not a good “fit” with MDO for racing.

There is no reason to think the OPs horse will not be perfectly suitable for sport/pleasure. Well bred horses are usually in the hands of the best of the best. If they don’t pan out on the race track they pretty much never end up on “Canter”. Their trainer and or racing managers have some “go to” people that they will call to find them second homes. They are not looking to hide anything and or “squeeze” a few more dollars out of the horse. They only deal with people who they know and trust and the horse won’t end up in an “embarrassing” situation that will come back and “bite them”.

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When “negative information” does hit the street the market for a stallions foals will drop like rock.

This is simply not true. If it were, the John O’Gaunt line would have died out eons ago. The In Excess line would not be around still. The Unbridled line would not be at the top. Mr. Prospector’s crooked legs would not have been perpetuated. Bold Ruler would have disappeared.

The TB industry, except maybe in Germany, will breed anything that is fast and can pass on fast, without any other considerations. In America they consider it a job well done if a horse can make it through its three year old year without euthanasia. If fast, no matter what’s wrong, they go to the breeding shed.

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Right, which is why I indicated in my first post that it’s a chicken/egg question… hard to assess the soundness of a stallion’s get when you don’t know if it’s because they are pushed too much at lower races or if it’s truly a structural reason.

I don’t agree that there isn’t a market for horses when negative information comes out. I’m with Viney on that one. Icecapade, RAN and In Excess come to mind immediately.

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A friend of mine who’s a COTH poster and eventer (haven’t seen her active in awhile so I’m not going to call her out) has a Medaglia D’Oro gelding who is one heck of an athlete. That horse will go far. Everyone who meets him knows it instantly. He’s actually pretty similarly bred to your guy, minus the AP Indy influence. He’s out of a Mr. P grandson. FWIW, he was also a roarer. He also never made it to the track (those two statements are unrelated).

Regarding your old war horse-- I LOVE Rhythm. That horse was all class.

They do surgery, they straighten legs, they tie back, they run them and then they breed them.

I think there’s just a difference between what sport horse people consider a problem and what racing people consider a problem because they are different sports in different tax brackets.

While I don’t think breeding roarers is particularly desirable, if there’s a good chance I’ll get a Rachel Alexandra, I’ll take the risk because the problem can be managed and corrected. The pluses outweigh the minuses. Sport horse people don’t think that way. Although I imagine if the sport horse industry had half as much money invested on the whole as racing, they would do the same.

What’s the problem with In Excess?

[QUOTE=PeteyPie;8356657]
What’s the problem with In Excess?[/QUOTE]
Fast, precocious, legs often don’t hold up through two and three yo racing.

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8356526]
This is simply not true. If it were, the John O’Gaunt line would have died out eons ago. The In Excess line would not be around still. The Unbridled line would not be at the top. Mr. Prospector’s crooked legs would not have been perpetuated. Bold Ruler would have disappeared.

The TB industry, except maybe in Germany, will breed anything that is fast and can pass on fast, without any other considerations. In America they consider it a job well done if a horse can make it through its three year old year without euthanasia. If fast, no matter what’s wrong, they go to the breeding shed.[/QUOTE]

That is very sad and troubling for the future of the TB breed for sport. Does this mean we should be looking more at German TBs?