I’m a Dressage learner and getting regular lessons. When I did reining clinic for the first time as I was invited, I was so culture shocked with super trained submissive supple horses. My heart is still in Dressage and think that when I get the technique to train horse for the obedience and responsiveness in reining, I may be able to climb up the Dressage level quicker as I could be able to control all parts of horse’s body. My question is does it make my horse confused in the different disciplines or he can be trained in both disciplines? It is more of his mental state I’m worrying about. If someone could give me advice it would be appreciated.
some questions… what breed is your horse?? and why is it easier to control all parts of the horses body in reining, then in Dressage?? (I am not really familiar with reining so I am curious)… I would assume that learning how to do reining will be difficult as well…
How do you define supple? Most of the reining horses I know are soft in the mouth to the point that the direct contact dressage requires would be confusing as they are loose rein unless being corrected. I’m not sure how realistic it is to ask a horse to be on a loose rein and see contact as a correction in one space and in another to eagerly seek a consistent contact.
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I think dressage and reining are a lot closer than dressage and H/J. There are a lot of similarities in what is asked and how they are trained. Reining asks for more quickness and a looser rein.
I think it would be hard to “train” or compete in both disciplines, but if you use principals from both, I think that can work fine. I have done some reining/cutting/team penning with my dressage horses and they love it. Learning to sit a slide stop really helped me learn to sit deep in a saddle but relax.
As said, though, going back and forth between working on a steady contact and a loopy one is not going to work too well.
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If you want to see where they cross over, take a look at Working Equitation. It’s a 3 phase competition with dressage, trail obstacles slow and fast, and a component similar to rening but without the long sliding stops. Generally done with talented Iberian horses or crosses. I think that a very good QH could do much of this, but it might be hard for many WB.
OP, did you ride the reining horses or just watch? If you rode them, have you also ridden dressage horses of equivalent calibre? Or are you comparing low level dressage horses to high quality reiners?
Anyhow, Working Eq shows how you can do a range of moves with the same horse. Typically they are less behind the bit and more collected than reiners but more behind the bit and a little lighter and shifty and in self carriage with less huge forward trot than a typical dressage WB.
I would not try schooling the same horse simultaneously in dressage and reining while you are a novice rider that doesn’t have the fundamentals of either discipline.
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I think the relationship with the bit favored by Dressagists and just about everyone in Western World is quite different. And it’s different from the time a colt is started. That could be hard for a horse unless he had a very clear and kind trainer who was doing the riding. Otherwise, I think both kinds of horses can be/should be ridden primarily from the body. I’m sure the reiner’s spin and pirouette want different things from the hind end (maintaining the canter rhythm or planting the inside leg.
In terms of conditioning and biomechanics, I’ll bet the two disciplines have a great deal in common. The timeline for reining horses versus dressage horses couldn’t be more different! As I understand it, very, very young horses learn all of the movements in most of the patterns they will do… and then spend the rest of their career refining those. Waiting until something like Third Level do to a flying change would make no sense to the reining world, I think.
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When I was in CA, I boarded at a barn that did cowhorse competitions, with aspects of cutting and reining in the sport. They had a horse they wanted to market as an all-around QH, so I rode him and taught him to jump. He was beautifully trained and when I used a KK Ultra bit on him, he actually sought contact, as I felt and my friends, one riding Second level at the time, witnessed. I only rode the one, but the different bit made a very different experience for the horse. The western trainer said they are “on contact” but to the weight of the rein, not the hand. I do agree as Scribbler said that a rider trying to learn both sports on a green horse in both would struggle, but based on my one experience, I think a well trained horse could shift sports with tack changes. I recall that Rugged Lark had different tack for each class, and it helped him shift gears…
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See below.
Fast forward to 4:00…I think the cowboy rides the WB better than the “dressage” rider because he gives the horse much more freedom.
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A few years ago at a Reining selection competition, a well known English rider gave a great reining exhibition ride.
David O’Connor outdid himself.
Too many English discipline riders obsess on the reins and the bit as a way to get what they think they want. The good ones realize that it all comes from behind. And the reins are secondary.
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I agree. What that told me was that he was used to riding a horse with “more body and less hand.” Also, his body was looser and more responsive. As someone coming from English world and having my eyes opened in the last couple of years to what good Western trainers do with their horses and what they expect of them, this video was another enlightening and humbling moment for me. Grateful to learn how to do better and better with horses, no matter what the tack or training tradition!
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I have a horse that spent some time with a reining trainer, she was definitely very sensitive to the body of the rider. I’m not entirely certain how her trainer achieved that in the year she was there, but it has stuck many years later. I think the biggest area of conflict that you will run into will be the different kind of contact both disciplines require
My cutting/sorting horse is also my foxhunter. He’s good at both --but we don’t compete. But he can do the job either way.
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Responsiveness and controlling the horse’s body parts are fundamental to dressage as well. There’s no reason to necessarily use reining to achieve those things if you’ve got a good dressage trainer to help you work on them. Your post makes me wonder if you’re comparing apples to oranges in terms of the horse (e.g. well trained Reiner vs greener dressage horse) or the trainer (talented reining clinician vs. dressage instruction geared toward beginners). So have a think on whether it’s reining or the more general feeling of riding a very responsive well trained horse that you’re after, before you invest in a whole new discipline.
Whether it would be confusing for the horse depends on the training approaches of the specific dressage and reining instructors you’d work with, as well as your own ability to communicate clearly with your horse and how confident your horse is in the contact. In a majority of cases I’d have serious reservations about using a western discipline to try to develop more precise communication and responsiveness in dressage.
Yes, but you must admit that a 5 year old horse in either discipline will be very different in terms of greenness.
I think the big takeaway from the comparison should be a renewed appreciation for the importance of riding from the body not hands in all disciplines.
My Paint mare is primarily schooled in dressage. I do however ride her bitless on the trails and when we’ve been dealing with bslkiness. Sometimes a side pull some times a mechanical hackamore.
I found that riding bitless and therefore with no contact let both of us discover more body aids. Seat, thigh, weight, knee. I stress her breeding because I felt like she let out a big sigh and said , now you’ve figured out that I’m really a Western horse and I can do everything you want without rein aids.
When I was a teen I taught my horse at the time lots of reining moves though unsupervised and probably not all correct. I loved that responsiveness. My experience riding same horse English was she didn’t like clear contact, and at the time I didn’t know how to teach contact to a horse that had learned to stay behind the bit.
Beginner and lower level dressage riders do sometimes start muscling the horse into moves with the hands and the horse gets heavier not lighter.
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I think for the rider that cross-training in both disciplines would be brilliant. There is a lot to learn from reining, especially the lightness that is expected.
I think for the horse that you can only do so with care, meaning that for example in reining all the pivots want the horse to plant a hind leg and spin around, and in dressage that’s a huge fault in the pirouettes. You are going to have to pick one style or the other if you train them.
If you are having issues with responsiveness, I think you could learn a lot by taking your horse for lessons with a reining trainer.
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I agree with Poltroon. Years ago I knew a Morgan trained in Reining (successful career) who in his later years was switched to Dressage for his young rider. He did very well in his new discipline.
Don’t know if a Dressage horse would have as easy a time going to Reining. Has anyone ever tried it?
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Very nice!
I think it will depend on the breed.
A competent QH reiner is an athletic horse, and has learned how to use his hind end. He might not ever have an 8 trot but he is highly trained and has more moves taught earlier.
A very handy dressage horse could cross over, an Iberian would have no trouble.
But I think some of the big WB or harness horse types that give spectacular trots in dressage might not be as handy in reining and might struggle with a sliding stop. Also dressage training goes a lot slower.
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The closest training to a dressage horse is a cutting horse… and yes this dressage rider in a dressage saddle on a 16.2hh tb did bring up a cow and a 3 day old calf into the yards.
As someone said above a reiner is taught all the movements to start with . That does not happen wirh a dressage horse. It takes years before they learn all the movements. It takes strength of muscle and mind.
I would say think of it as hip hop and ballet.
