Can I just rant about platinum performance products for a sec?

[JB]

@Equkelly

1. They don’t know what type of enteritis she had it what caused it.

That’s too bad. Maybe this will help
https://ker.com/equinews/recovery-en…ed-management/

2. Also where did you go to vet school? You didn’t say but surely it must be a really really good one if you’re able to make such claims so I’m super curious.

What claims? That it’s my opinion that a GI supplement is unlikely to prevent enteritis? After I made a comment that some think it’s a bacterial infection? Have you read ANYthing about enteritis yes?

“Some researchers believe there is a bacterial basis for the disease. Most horses that suffer from anterior enteritis are being fed grain-based diets (i.e., textured feeds, pellets, straight cereal grains, etc.) at the time of the attack. While horses diagnosed with this disorder seem to have grain feeding in common, there is nothing to suggest this is a crucial element in the pathology. Other possible but vague causes of anterior enteritis may include internal parasitism, cantharidin (the toxin produced by blister beetles, insects that commonly swarm in alfalfa fields and are then baled with the plants during haymaking), arsenic, and acorns. Scientists are not completely swayed that these precipitants give rise to anterior enteritis because typically they affect much of the gastrointestinal tract and not solely the proximal small intestine. Interestingly, a preponderance of anterior enteritis cases has occurred in the southeastern United States.”

So, a GI supplement will help if you live in the SE? If the horse eats acorns? If he’s got parasites?

What about this - more support for bacteria, but no definitive relationships yet.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5901841/

In other words, if nobody really knows the cause, how can you, a vet, me, anyone, say that a GI supplement is likely to help?

IME, supplements like this are more likely to help resolve an existing issue. I never said it couldn’t help prevent another episode for your horse, but I DO think, based on the knowledge I have of this product (which has some great stuff in it, and BIo-Sponge has saved the lives of a lot of horses from acute and chronic issues) and what I know of enteritis.

You’re being presented with information. You’re fighting SO hard for everyone to be wrong.

[JB]

@Equkelly

Similar colic insurance alone would normally start at 500 a year which would account for over a third of the product’s annual cost.

WHERE are you getting your prices from? A 50lb bucket is $464, and that’s 308 servings. That means 365 servings is $549. Hardly almost $1500

With plain colic insurance, you’re getting a lower cost coverage, or you’re also paying a deductible for higher coverage, and you might still have a deductible for lower coverage. AND, depending on the company, you can’t ever get colic insurance if there’s a history of colic. And, those polices aren’t doing a thing for your horse’s health in the meantime.

[tabula_rashah]

This is a weird argument for sure. You’re mad at a product/company that you don’t even currently use because they offer a bonus program that doesn’t apply to you? And the product isn’t even something that is designed to help with the issue you have? I’d be looking into a different vet rather than put my energy into being PO’d at a company for a totally normal and reasonable policy.

PS wherever you got that pricing on the Platinum GI has got your number hon. You’d have to almost triple the amount you are supposed to be feeding for it to cost $1400/year

[Simkie]

@JB

WHERE are you getting your prices from? A 50lb bucket is $464, and that’s 308 servings. That means 365 servings is $549. Hardly almost $1500

With plain colic insurance, you’re getting a lower cost coverage, or you’re also paying a deductible for higher coverage, and you might still have a deductible for lower coverage. AND, depending on the company, you can’t ever get colic insurance if there’s a history of colic. And, those polices aren’t doing a thing for your horse’s health in the meantime.

And isn’t a 10k major medical policy running north of $500, too??

It’s been awhile since I carried a policy on mine, but pretty sure that kind of coverage was closer to a grand a year (nearly ten years ago now!) for a horse valued at less than $10k.

[JB]

I don’t have a problem with what the vet said. It’s not a BAD suggestion, it’s just not likely to help the cause of this particular colic. It’s a “won’t hurt, might help” deal. I’d much rather have a vet who can competently treat enteritis, than worry about what supplements they do or don’t recommend :yes:

@Simkie, I just browsed a couple of insurance companies, to see who offered what kind of coverage for just colic surgery. 1 had a $10k colic surgery limit, one had $2500 and $5000 options. But you can’t see the cost without requesting a quote, so I don’t know for sure. Maybe you can get $2500 coverage for $500?

Yes, much closer to $1k when I had insurance too, but that was Major Medical as a whole, not just colic surgery.

[Kyrabee]

Strange thread in that OP is still ranting…that is what she wanted to do…mission accomplished.

My vet pushes PP products. I respectfully decline, do some research and buy a cheaper alternative if I feel she really needs a particular supp.

I would rather save my money for that “self” insurance and I don’t have to worry about $&*!# insurance companies (I tired of playing their games…ahem…following their rules/conditions).

OP, Best to you and your mare for continued good health.

Susan

[Jarrn]

@JB

I don’t have a problem with what the vet said. It’s not a BAD suggestion, it’s just not likely to help the cause of this particular colic. It’s a “won’t hurt, might help” deal. I’d much rather have a vet who can competently treat enteritis, than worry about what supplements they do or don’t recommend :yes:

@Simkie, I just browsed a couple of insurance companies, to see who offered what kind of coverage for just colic surgery. 1 had a $10k colic surgery limit, one had $2500 and $5000 options. But you can’t see the cost without requesting a quote, so I don’t know for sure. Maybe you can get $2500 coverage for $500?

Yes, much closer to $1k when I had insurance too, but that was Major Medical as a whole, not just colic surgery.

I got a quote about a year ago for my 4yo ottb. For $6k in mortality and only $3500 in emergency colic surgery coverage, the cost was $600/year.

[IPEsq]

@JB

WHERE are you getting your prices from? A 50lb bucket is $464, and that’s 308 servings. That means 365 servings is $549. Hardly almost $1500

With plain colic insurance, you’re getting a lower cost coverage, or you’re also paying a deductible for higher coverage, and you might still have a deductible for lower coverage. AND, depending on the company, you can’t ever get colic insurance if there’s a history of colic. And, those polices aren’t doing a thing for your horse’s health in the meantime.

A serving as shown on the website is 1 scoop but most horses of average size require feeding at least 2 scoops a day to qualify for the colic coverage (assuming all other conditions are met). So, closer to $1100/yr (plus tax depending on your state, and shipping).

The mortality/colic surgery endorsement part of my regular insurance policy is around $1700 for the premium, but that is based in part on his use (jumper) and a % of his claimed value. The colic surgery coverage is $6k limit. Can’t get the colic surgery coverage without the mortality policy. $10k MM is added on for another $500 premium.

[JB]

Thank you, I did not see that horses would require 2 scoops. Goodness, for that kind of money, just by a good Major Medical policy. Colic will be excluded anyway, either for ever, or for a time period, so choose a company where colic can be added back in after X time.

[Dutchmare433]

@Simkie

And isn’t a 10k major medical policy running north of $500, too??

It’s been awhile since I carried a policy on mine, but pretty sure that kind of coverage was closer to a grand a year (nearly ten years ago now!) for a horse valued at less than $10k.

I whipped out my policy because of this thread, estimating this one because I have more than 10k MM coverage, it would be about $400 and includes a 3k emergency colic surgery rider. BUT, you can’t get major medical without mortality, nor can you get a higher amount of major medical than mortality value. My specific policy is 3% of value, so would theoretically be $300, so estimate $700 per year all in.

And of course, it would exclude any colic coverage for 1 policy year following a colic event. Ex) my policy starts in October, so if my horse coliced in November 2019, he would not be eligible for colic coverage until October 2021. So both more expensive and more restrictive in terms of coverage/exclusions.

[IPEsq]

@JB

Thank you, I did not see that horses would require 2 scoops. Goodness, for that kind of money, just by a good Major Medical policy. Colic will be excluded anyway, either for ever, or for a time period, so choose a company where colic can be added back in after X time.

My big guy was on 3 scoops/day at one point after his kidney incident when he hardly wanted any part of any supplements and refused his old grain. Prior to that I fed 2 scoops + a different GI product like HorseTech’s or Succeed during times he needed something extra, like when we went to a new stack of hay. But the barn had also become a lot more full and we were going through hay so fast, it was just easier to give him the PP. I would always just call them to have them figure out my auto ship schedule for whatever size bucket and however many scoops/day. I sometimes went to smaller buckets in summer so the flax wouldn’t go rancid. But I did specifically ask them if 1 serving meant 1 recommended days’ worth or 1 scoop, and they said 1 scoop.

[gertie06]

Geez, I could not disagree more. I LOVE Platinum Performance CJ and the company’s customer service.

[Simkie]

@Dutchmare433

I whipped out my policy because of this thread, estimating this one because I have more than 10k MM coverage, it would be about $400 and includes a 3k emergency colic surgery rider. BUT, you can’t get major medical without mortality, nor can you get a higher amount of major medical than mortality value. My specific policy is 3% of value, so would theoretically be $300, so estimate $700 per year all in.

And of course, it would exclude any colic coverage for 1 policy year following a colic event. Ex) my policy starts in October, so if my horse coliced in November 2019, he would not be eligible for colic coverage until October 2021. So both more expensive and more restrictive in terms of coverage/exclusions.

Thank you!! That’s about what I recall, price wise, but just could NOT find the receipt or quote from last time I purchased (it’s been awhile!)

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Kyrabee

Strange thread in that OP is still ranting…that is what she wanted to do…mission accomplished.

and all the rest of you… save your breath. This OP has a history of being argumentative and defensive. About all subjects.

[Fellbutbackup]

@Equkelly

2. Also where did you go to vet school? You didn’t say but surely it must be a really really good one if you’re able to make such claims so I’m super curious.

Whoa. Excuse me. This is way out of line. You have someone offering you free advice on a free forum. It is up to you to filter as you deem needed. Attacking someone personally with assumptions (why even assume the most banal assumption of DVM?) is out of bounds.

As a purposefully unspecified expert in a deliberately unstated field myself, I rarely give free advice. It is very often a waste of effort and time. This is especially true on an online forum where 1) Most do not know enough to filter out info, and 2) All rules of productive debate and evidence presenting are thrown out.

End of the day, this is a forum. There are definitely crazies here— sometimes really stubborn ones. The best course is to just ignore them. You are at liberty to laugh at and and ignore anything posted. But deliberately attacking someone personally because you disagree with them is beyond acceptable. It is also a logical fallacy reflective of you. Why bother anyway?

[Equkelly]

@Fellbutbackup

Whoa. Excuse me. This is way out of line. You have someone offering you free advice on a free forum. It is up to you to filter as you deem needed. Attacking someone personally with assumptions (why even assume the most banal assumption of DVM?) is out of bounds.

As a purposefully unspecified expert in a deliberately unstated field myself, I rarely give free advice. It is very often a waste of effort and time. This is especially true on an online forum where 1) Most do not know enough to filter out info, and 2) All rules of productive debate and evidence presenting are thrown out.

End of the day, this is a forum. There are definitely crazies here— sometimes really stubborn ones. The best course is to just ignore them. You are at liberty to laugh at and and ignore anything posted. But deliberately attacking someone personally because you disagree with them is beyond acceptable. It is also a logical fallacy reflective of you. Why bother anyway?

Ok I attacked no one. I said I was frustrated with PP’s and that opened up the floodgates for the PP cult apparently. JB’s been nothing but a condescending and mean the whole thread so I was just real curious where the ego was coming from.

Clearly I struck a nerve with the PP crowd. There’s plenty of things I agree with COTH about but this clearly isn’t one. Oh well. Life goes on. I know I’m not “inexperienced” or “entitled” or “argumentative” so like I’ve said, save the gaslighting.

[Fellbutbackup]

@Equkelly

Ok I attacked no one. I said I was frustrated with PP’s and that opened up the floodgates for the PP cult apparently. JB’s been nothing but a condescending and mean the whole thread so I was just real curious where the ego was coming from.

Clearly I struck a nerve with the PP crowd. There’s plenty of things I agree with COTH about but this clearly isn’t one. Oh well. Life goes on. I know I’m not “inexperienced” or “entitled” or “argumentative” so like I’ve said, save the gaslighting.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/argumentum-ad-hominem

argumentum ad hominem

/ Latin (ˌɑːɡjʊˈmɛntʊm æd ˈhɒmɪˌnɛm) / [HR][/HR]noun logic

fallacious argument that attacks not an opponent’s beliefs but his motives or character

Another example of which would be chalking everyone in this thread up as the “PP crowd” instead of taking their individual arguments into consideration.

Note a key word up there: “Attacks”

[JB]

@Equkelly

Ok I attacked no one.

Well yeah, ya kinda have

I said I was frustrated with PP’s and that opened up the floodgates for the PP cult apparently.

If you’d actually bothered to read the posts from people to whom you said “I’m not reading your posts”, you would have seen that many of us aren’t really fond of PP products in general. In fact, I stated right up front I think many of their products are over-priced for what that are. Aka, not a fan. Some others have said they like the products. So what?

JB’s been nothing but a condescending and mean the whole thread so I was just real curious where the ego was coming from.

You mean correcting your mis-information is mean and condescending? Ok then.

Clearly I struck a nerve with the PP crowd. There’s plenty of things I agree with COTH about but this clearly isn’t one. Oh well. Life goes on. I know I’m not “inexperienced” or “entitled” or “argumentative” so like I’ve said, save the gaslighting.

Still not what gaslighting means.

You have proven your inexperience in the insurance world by complaining about PP’s requirements and crying “I could get regular insurance without a problem” - no. You keep saying things about the insurance industry that just aren’t true, and trying to make it sound like PP is doing something outside the lines of what everyone else does. And when you are corrected, you KEEP arguing for what you feel should be done.

As for entitled? Remember this?

@Equkelly

Right but their insurance IS part of the product. It doesn’t matter if they call it complimentary. If your horse is eligible, you follow the guidelines, and you spend the money, you’re entitled to 10k of insurance. That’s not an insignificant amount of “insurance” and that’s why they cost as much as they do. The risk of paying out a surgical colic IS part of their costs. Just because it’s not a tangible product doesn’t male it irrelevant. That’s a BIG part of platinum/ smartpak’s value.

Some people look at it as expensive insurance with free supplements or expensive supplements with free insurance but in the end, the whole product is very much a compunction of the two. I don’t see how getting one without the other for the same price isn’t a rip off.

[MyKindaFlower]

@Equkelly

Ok I attacked no one. I said I was frustrated with PP’s and that opened up the floodgates for the PP cult apparently. JB’s been nothing but a condescending and mean the whole thread so I was just real curious where the ego was coming from.

Clearly I struck a nerve with the PP crowd. There’s plenty of things I agree with COTH about but this clearly isn’t one. Oh well. Life goes on. I know I’m not “inexperienced” or “entitled” or “argumentative” so like I’ve said, save the gaslighting.

If by the statement, “I attacked no one,” you mean that you attacked EVERYONE and ANYONE who even slightly contradicted your self-important ranting about the fact that you don’t qualify for something you seem to think you’re entitled to… Oh, and of course those folks that wasted their own time suggesting husbandry alternatives to the supplement that you’re so very butt hurt about… Because everyone should KNOW that you’re the do all, end all, be all specialist about everything equine. Of course you don’t need advice. You are, after all, an expert. That’s why you’re on an internet forum, blah blah blah’ing about something you apparently can’t wrap your silly head around.

Seems that everyone responding on this thread merely had the audacity to suggest that you base your selection of any supplement on what will work best for YOUR horse, within YOUR budget. Skip the fancy marketing hype, skip the silly insurance coverage promos, and buy, or don’t buy, a product based on whether what’s in the bucket meets your horse’s needs for what you consider to be a reasonable price. I didn’t see a single suggestion that you should just blindly purchase PP, or SmartPak, or Succeed, or any other brand.

But by all means, get out your, “It’s all about me and my opinion and anything that isn’t about ME ME ME is just gaslighting,” soapbox and ramble away. I’m sure that’ll fix PP, and JB, and everyone else who doesn’t immediately agree with your little tantrum.

Because you seem to require that this be spelled out very plainly, I do not use PP, never have used PP, and am not affiliated with PP in any way. I just plain don’t like your condescending attitude. For all that, I’m glad that your horse is better.

[Jarrn]

@Equkelly

Ok I attacked no one. I said I was frustrated with PP’s and that opened up the floodgates for the PP cult apparently. JB’s been nothing but a condescending and mean the whole thread so I was just real curious where the ego was coming from.

Clearly I struck a nerve with the PP crowd. There’s plenty of things I agree with COTH about but this clearly isn’t one. Oh well. Life goes on. I know I’m not “inexperienced” or “entitled” or “argumentative” so like I’ve said, save the gaslighting.

Cult? I’ve never even used their product and there a quite a few people who haven’t and told you that they hadn’t. Multiple people here said they didn’t even like PP. I think the minority of people on this post actually like PPs products.

Just because you don’t like the advice given doesn’t mean we’re all part of some whacky cult. Sounds like you’re gaslighting the posters here (using your definition, obviously, not the actual real definition).

I saw nothing condescending or mean about any of JBs posts. I find their posts, especially about supplements and related things, to be very informative and knowledgeable.