Can someone tell me about the Oldenburg NA?

[flshgordon]

@DownYonder;2757449

Sorry if that offended you. My understanding from talking to many ISR/ONA breeders - many of whom I consider FRIENDS, despite our registry differences - is that they stay with ISR because they have found it financially beneficial to them. After all, it is one of the largest registries in the U.S., it has a lot of very good member services, plus it has that vaunted Oldenburg name and brand. Look, people choose their registry for a variety of reasons. I chose Oldenburg because - as I have said before - no one is going to put the Oldenburg brand on my foals without the approval of the Oldenburg Verband. It has been THEIR brand for most of this century, and actually, going far, far back before that. It just doesn’t seem right to let someone use it without the Verband’s permission. But hey, that’s just me. Other people are free to make their own choices.

And if ISR has a bunch of hot-headed, angry, overly-sensitive and overly defensive folks like YOU, I am glad I picked Oldenburg.

Excuse me…but you just insulted the whole lot of us by saying we got “sucked in” to the registry…blah blah blah. If you call that overly sensitive, I’d call you unable to reason like a normal person :rolleyes:

And I really don’t get people that keep carrying a grudge over this. Really…you need to move on or take it to court and fix it yourself.

I think it’s great there are a million registries to choose from so we don’t all have to do the same thing and I chose the one I did because as you said above “it is one of the largest registries in the U.S., it has a lot of very good member services”…end of story. Not because I got “sucked in” as a beginner. sheesh

[flshgordon]

@HFSH;2757489

I thought it was the International Sporthorse Registry (ISR) and before the split, also the Oldenburg NA. Was told at inspections they were different, they even had different brands. Now you only hear about the OLNA part.

But really, I wanted just post to say, instead of rehashing this, how about people use the search feature to find out more, so we dont end up with another cat fight that gets the forum locked. The search feature does work quite nicely.

It is both. International Sporthorse Registry and Oldenburg N.A.

ISR has the lower mare books and is the registry for mares of insufficient pedigree, etc and has its own brand. Oldenburg NA has the higher mare books and offspring can be eligible to become stallions, etc. That was a drastic oversimplification but gives you an idea.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

On another note, does anyone know why Karsten Kuehl is not inspectng for the ISR/OLD NA anymore?

[Edgar]

Karsten became breeding director of the Weser Ems riding pony registry instead of Breeding director of ISR/OLNA.

[Tiki]

I believe the 2 incidents you refer to DY - the QH(s) in the MMB were with the GOV, and well discussed in the past, and with the former dirctor (re stallions) who is no longer employed by either the GOV or ISR/OLNA.

[hluing]

From what I heard Karston was only briely the acting Weser-Ems director while Mareile was on maternity leave. She is back now…so I wonder what Karston is doing.

[clint]

@DownYonder;2757388

Mystic Owl, I don’t know what timeframe you are referring to, but Holly was out on inspections most of late spring and summer. Did you try contacting the office in Germany?

I make my breeding decisions in late winter, and after weeks of e-mailing, got a response from Holly, who was then going to send me information, which I’m still waiting for. As a matter of fact, you said you would send information which I never got, either. If I can’t get information to make my breeding plans, why on earth would I want to up my stress level trying to get information once I have bred the mare and have a foal on the ground?

There are two Oldenburg registries, currently, each with its own similar rules, one which brands. Different stallions are with each registry, some with both. At this point, I am going with the one that gives me information in a timely fashion. And I was around during the entire split, listened to both sides scream at each other, which will happen/is happening now. Very tiresome, really, and I long ago decided that one is not better than the other.

[Galileo1998]

Well - I will give my unbiased opinion based on my experiences with both.

The GOV offers more “snob appeal” and IN GENERAL seems to get more respect from people, including potential buyers. On the other hand the customer service from the office is dreadful and has been for at least the last few years that I know of.

The ISR/Old NA offers far better customer service and a brand on the babies butt. They don’t seem to be held in the same regard though. I’m not sure what the reasons are for that, but it is my experience.

[EquusMagnificus]

So… in regards to all being said, I am gathering in my situation, the best I could do would be to have mom approved GOV for the “snob appeal” as Galileo expressed it But have both mom and babies approved and branded (foals only) through ISR/OLD. In such way, getting the approval stamp on the quality of my mare while still getting scores and benefiting from mandatory inspection for the foals (which is essential (IMHO) in developing a good breeding program, especially for novice breeders like me who might not yet have the experience and knowledge to properly judge the ‘end product’).

Does it make any sense at all?

[clint]

@EquusMagnificus;2757615

So… in regards to all being said, I am gathering in my situation, the best I could do would be to have mom approved GOV for the “snob appeal” as Galileo expressed it But have both mom and babies approved and branded (foals only) through ISR/OLD. In such way, getting the approval stamp on the quality of my mare while still getting scores and benefiting from mandatory inspection for the foals (which is essential (IMHO) in developing a good breeding program, especially for novice breeders like me who might not yet have the experience and knowledge to properly judge the ‘end product’).

Does it make any sense at all?

You know, when it gets into snob appeal, who knows? For strictly snob appeal, other registries spring to mind before Oldenburg, either one of them. As far as selling horses/foals, I have had buyers want a photograph of the brand on the butt, just to be sure the horse was branded, because the brand mattered. In the end, I think it important to have the horse registered but as far as which registry, the appearance/ability/potential of the horse seems to be more important to buyers than exactly which registry.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

Most (99%?) of buyers don’t care about the brands on their butts, or lack there of, OR which registry they get papers from, OR for that matter, what kind of papers they are. They do want some kind of papers from an established registry that they believe will prove the bloodlines on the horse, and to be eligible for breed awards.

BREEDERS care about the paperwork/brand, but 99% of buyers are not breeders.

[eqsiu]

Well, thank goodness everyone takes thoroughbred mares so my choice gets made by which registry the stallion I like is licensed by.

[Sonesta]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;2757375]
Changing the breeding rules and scoring systems, putting ineligible mares in the MMB, “backyard licensing” of several stallions, being heavily involved in sales transactions (to the point of taking commissions), promising to approve young stallions if the prospective N.A. buyer purchased the stallion, etc., etc. There was lots of hanky-panky going on at the top but it was the QH mares in the MMB that caused the biggest uproar in Germany. At the time, MMB mares could produce licensed stallion sons, so having a QH in the MMB was a BIG problem. Now, licensed stallions have to be out of a second generation MMB mare, which has helped close that loophole.[/QUOTE]

then…

@DownYonder;2757402

Shall we all give examples of things inspectors say? How about the time an ISR inspector told someone that if he would just buy a certain young stallion from the inspector’s friend in Germany, he (the inspector) would make sure the stallion got approved in N.A. Mind you, the stallion had been passed over at the Verband stallion selections.

DY, that’s a nice “spin” you did above. Now, please do also tell everyone that it was Roland Ramsauer that was guilty of all these bad deeds and that ISR FIRED him over it – then he ran whimpering and complaining to GOV who broke away from ISR and put Ramsauer in charge of its new registry – where he continued to place QH mares in the MMB (causing huge scandals in Germany) and sell mediocre stallions to people in the U.S. – till the GOV finally wised up to him and then they fired him, too. But by that time the bad feelings he caused between ISR and GOV were beyond repair.

Bottom line: RR was the bad guy, not ISR/ONA.

And, yes. It IS time to just get over it on BOTH sides. Burn RR in effigy and kiss and make up. That would be the ideal solution for everyone.

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2757690]
Most (99%?) of buyers don’t care about the brands on their butts, or lack there of, OR which registry they get papers from, OR for that matter, what kind of papers they are. They do want some kind of papers from an established registry that they believe will prove the bloodlines on the horse, and to be eligible for breed awards.

BREEDERS care about the paperwork/brand, but 99% of buyers are not breeders.[/QUOTE]

True… true… I notice the registry… but I didn’t much before getting interested in breeding.

[Tiki]

Yay, Sonesta. That’s basically what I posted above, but I didn’t dare name names.

YES! it’s time to let bygones be bygones. RR is LONG gone and the GOV is now part of the Federation. Let’s all just join what works best for each of us and do our best to continue to breed what are turning out to be some of the best sporthorses in the world!!!

[Sonesta]

If there was a lick of sense in the leadership of both registries, they’d get an intermediary to sit down with them and work out a way to affilliate with one another again.

ISR brings to the table: the brand, a great infrastructure and reputation of good service to its members, huge numbers of registered horses and approved mares and stallions, and its part in the stallion testing.

GOV brings to the table: the Verband stamp of approval

BOTH sides agree to the inspection standards and agree to the inspectors used

The benefits to both would be enormous.

[Tiki]

Right, if they’re ‘suspicious’ of each other’s inspection standards, let every inspection have one of each, a GOV inspector and an ISR/OLNA inspector.

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;2757877]
If there was a lick of sense in the leadership of both registries, they’d get an intermediary to sit down with them and work out a way to affilliate with one another again.

ISR brings to the table: the brand, a great infrastructure and reputation of good service to its members, huge numbers of registered horses and approved mares and stallions, and its part in the stallion testing.

GOV brings to the table: the Verband stamp of approval

BOTH sides agree to the inspection standards and agree to the inspectors used

The benefits to both would be enormous.[/QUOTE]

And this is the smartest thing I’ve read in a while on this topic!
I use ISR/Old NA simply because it was the first registry that I started with and they haven’t given me a reason to leave! Excellent customer service and they are one of the few registries that has an inspection close to me.
I would love if the two registries could let bygones be bygones and figure out a way to end the bad feelings between the two. Then we wouldn’t have to have this discussion anymore!

[Erin]

You all are getting exactly ONE warning. Either discuss the topic like rational adults, or it will be shut down.

You would think, after all this time, it might be possible to have a civil discussion on the topic, but apparently a few folks here are bound and determined to ensure that’s never the case. :rolleyes:

[Sonesta]

Sorry, Erin. I promise not to say another word.