Can someone tell me about the Oldenburg NA?

[pwynnnorman]

The inspector happened to have a stay over after the inspection and I had said to someone that I really wanted to bring my mare so they asked him and he said he wouldn’t mind dropping by the farm to do it considering I had been very much a part of the inspection all day. That was a rare and kind gesture and certainly not required. My little mare made main mare book and I was able to do it on the lawn.

A unique experience. An act of kindness I shall not forget anyday soon.

Changing the breeding rules and scoring systems, putting ineligible mares in the MMB, “backyard licensing” of several stallions, being heavily involved in sales transactions (to the point of taking commissions), promising to approve young stallions if the prospective N.A. buyer purchased the stallion, etc., etc. There was lots of hanky-panky going on at the top but it was the QH mares in the MMB that caused the biggest uproar in Germany.

Oh, Wow: the juxtaposition of these two statements and the potential implications sends me running for the hills, proverbially.

(As in, and what if she HADN’T been “involved” in the inspection? Where does the line get drawn between “kindness” and other motivations? I appreciate kindness, too, but I prefer strict professionalism, if only for the sake of appearances–especially in this particular area!)

Anyway, this exactly why I just can’t see myself ever putting my years of hard work and self-education in front of ANY for-profit, subjective, unlicensed (and therefore oversight-defficient…short of a lawsuit) evaluative process. These threads always serve to remind me of just how little trust I have in human nature, especially wherever egos and economics are in the mix. I wish I didn’t feel this way. Blame it on the internet.

[ljshorses]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2757690]
Most (99%?) of buyers don’t care about the brands on their butts, or lack there of, OR which registry they get papers from, OR for that matter, what kind of papers they are. They do want some kind of papers from an established registry that they believe will prove the bloodlines on the horse, and to be eligible for breed awards.

BREEDERS care about the paperwork/brand, but 99% of buyers are not breeders.[/QUOTE]

I use to think that too, but the last 2 years haven proven to me that many buyers do want certain brands etc… I breed some for the amateur market as well as some for higher levels of competition. Some would be considered for breeding animals in the future. It is those considered for breeding possibly in the future that my buyers then ask for certain registries/brands/approvals. As an example, I just 2 days ago had someone contact me for a stallion prospect that was registered with either Old NA or NAKWPN. I had sold both stallion candidates I had from either registry, but told them of others we had available (were not registered with the 2 registries I noted) and they didn’t even want to hear about them. And one had come in 2nd at Devon! They said they didn’t want to even consider any other registries, hmmm. So even if they are mainly for performance, the off chance they may be considered for breeding later is enough for some buyers to pick particular registries when shopping.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

I totally agree that people that want to breed, and especially someone that may be thinking stallion prospect will be very choosy about breed/registry. As a breeder, there are many breeds that I will not even consider for a mare, even if she was Grand Champion at Devon, and for free.

[monami]

I have only had experience with the GOV not the Old NA. I can also attest to the fact that their customer service is severely lacking and I don’t think that is a huge secret.
I hope they work on improving that or I think you will see less and less people supporting the registry. I can’t remember the last time I received a publication or received a response to an email or voice mail with out making numerous attempts… it is extremely frustrating.

I belong to the RPSI and the AHS and customer service is night and day from the GOV.

[Cartier]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;2757877]
If there was a lick of sense in the leadership of both registries, they’d get an intermediary to sit down with them and work out a way to affilliate with one another again.

ISR brings to the table: the brand, a great infrastructure and reputation of good service to its members, huge numbers of registered horses and approved mares and stallions, and its part in the stallion testing.

GOV brings to the table: the Verband stamp of approval

BOTH sides agree to the inspection standards and agree to the inspectors used

The benefits to both would be enormous.[/QUOTE]

Haven’t read all the comments on this tread… but we have advocated this for years now… It is the BEST solution for all American Oldenburg Breeders. Kudos Rebecca.

[Mozart]

@monami;2758267

I have only had experience with the GOV not the Old NA. I can also attest to the fact that their customer service is severely lacking and I don’t think that is a huge secret.
I hope they work on improving that or I think you will see less and less people supporting the registry. I can’t remember the last time I received a publication or received a response to an email or voice mail with out making numerous attempts… it is extremely frustrating.

I belong to the RPSI and the AHS and customer service is night and day from the GOV.

I just have to add, that recently I submitted an ad for a sales horse to the GOV website and they were extremely prompt and helpful. I know someone who had communication issues with them in the past but that has not been my experience.

[hluing]

That is because the new webmaster and newletter writer is wonderful. Stephanie has been doing an absolutely great job with GOV!!!

If someone is new to all this and is choosing between the registries (both of which I have used at some point)…I recommend attending each inspection. That much more then a website, etc gives you a real feel for the registry…the horses there, the inspectors, the scores. Go and meet them and see what they have to offer.

[Foxtrot_s]

Wouldn’t it be nice if a horse with GOV registration sold better than a OLD/NA - then we could all register GOV and have snob buyers beating a path to our doors. It has seemed to me that buyers were buying the horse, its bloodlines, its performance, conformation, temperament etc. etc. - well, that’s what I look for, not its papers.
After all these years it’s about time some people got over themselves and quit harbouring a grudge. Pick your registry and be happy. Heck.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;2757746]
DY, that’s a nice “spin” you did above. Now, please do also tell everyone that it was Roland Ramsauer that was guilty of all these bad deeds and that ISR FIRED him over it – then he ran whimpering and complaining to GOV who broke away from ISR and put Ramsauer in charge of its new registry – where he continued to place QH mares in the MMB (causing huge scandals in Germany) and sell mediocre stallions to people in the U.S. – till the GOV finally wised up to him and then they fired him, too. But by that time the bad feelings he caused between ISR and GOV were beyond repair.[/QUOTE]

Yep, I am well aware that RR was involved in those episodes. However, in THIS instance:

(my earlier quote) How about the time an ISR inspector told someone that if he would just buy a certain young stallion from the inspector’s friend in Germany, he (the inspector) would make sure the stallion got approved in N.A. Mind you, the stallion had been passed over at the Verband stallion selections.

I was referring to another ISR inspector - long after RR was gone.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;2757877]
If there was a lick of sense in the leadership of both registries, they’d get an intermediary to sit down with them and work out a way to affilliate with one another again.

ISR brings to the table: the brand, a great infrastructure and reputation of good service to its members, huge numbers of registered horses and approved mares and stallions, and its part in the stallion testing.

GOV brings to the table: the Verband stamp of approval

BOTH sides agree to the inspection standards and agree to the inspectors used

The benefits to both would be enormous.[/QUOTE]

Agree that the benefits would be HUGE. From what I have been told, though, the Verband would want all breeding rules and inspection policies the same as in Germany, and they would have to re-evaluate the mare book placement of all mares inspected by ISR/ONA since the split to make sure all mares were in the correct mare books according to Veband policies. But who knows, it may happen yet one day.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2757501]
On another note, does anyone know why Karsten Kuehl is not inspectng for the ISR/OLD NA anymore?[/QUOTE]

Karsten left for reasons we won’t go into here. He was then offered employment by the Verband but ISR sued him to prevent him from working in North America. As someone already said, he was acting breeding director for Weser-Ems for a while until Mareile Oellrich returned from maternity leave.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=hluing;2758342]
That is because the new webmaster and newletter writer is wonderful. Stephanie has been doing an absolutely great job with GOV!!![/QUOTE]

Yes, she is doing a super job! Wait till you see the new magazine!

Oh, and in case anyone is wondering - I do not work for or speak for the Oldenburg Horse Breeders Society / Oldenburg Verband.

[Cartier]

Listening to breeders like Pat Belskie a.k.a. Ashemont (who dealt with both Old NA and the GOV for well over a decade… and had horses in both registries before and after “The Split), it’s very clear that both registries engaged in the same practices. It is misleading to suggest that one registry took some mythical “High Road” and the other did not. It is misleading to suggest that one registry had higher standards… they were both doing essentially the same thing, with the same personnel.

The kindest observation one can make is that the leadership from Germany has been flawed and/or far too focused on what is good for German Oldenburg breeders as opposed to what is good for American Oldenburg breeders and our American market place. If you look at the past 25 years in this country, Old NA has the best track record for advancing American breeder’s interests, to the extent possible given the personalities and agendas involved.

[Rubs_Not_Pats]

I had a similar experiance with ISR/OLD with my mare inspection. They were at my farm already and I was out of the country and they agreed to slip my mare in for reinspection. I can’t thank them enough, especially since the keuring is quite a distance from us and the following year, I would have had to make trips because I had too many. Kudos to them! Now, they are working with me to set up a mare performance test for the same mare.

All registries have problems. When I first started working with them, they were hard. They have come a long way. There still is a way to go. I do think that scoring has been a lot higher than it used to be and premium levels need to be re-adjusted.

[DownYonder]

Of course the Verband is going to focus on what is best for German Oldenburg breeders. It is the 3rd largest registry in Germany, with over 7800 actively breeding mares (according to figures from the head of the FN).

And of course ISR is going to focus on N.A., because that is its target market. It was formed specifically to operate in N.A. and to my knowledge is virtually non-existent elsewhere.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

@DownYonder;2759322

Of course the Verband is going to focus on what is best for German Oldenburg breeders. It is the 3rd largest registry in Germany, with over 7800 actively breeding mares (according to figures from the head of the FN).

And of course ISR is going to focus on N.A., because that is its target market. It was formed specifically to operate in N.A. and to my knowledge is virtually non-existent elsewhere.

You found the key. The GOV is NOT set up to meet the needs of American breeders. Is is not their focus. We are an afterthought to them, and that becomes obvious in customer service.

Why in 10 years can’t they answer my question about where my mare’s DNA is on file, and the case number? Or even respond in any way?

OTOH, the AWS responded immediately with my stallion’s DNA and case #.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2759416]
Why in 10 years can’t they answer my question about where my mare’s DNA is on file, and the case number? Or even respond in any way?[/QUOTE]

When and where was your mare inspected, and who was the inspector?

[Cartier]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;2759322]
Of course the Verband is going to focus on what is best for German Oldenburg breeders. It is the 3rd largest registry in Germany, with over 7800 actively breeding mares (according to figures from the head of the FN).

And of course ISR is going to focus on N.A., because that is its target market. It was formed specifically to operate in N.A. and to my knowledge is virtually non-existent elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
Possibly we’ve all missed a few salient points, I should be more clear. The GOV chose of their own free will to come to the USA back in 1988 and guide American breeders to breed O and Crown branded Oldenburgs. Dr. Roland Ramsauer, the GOV’s Breeding Director (in Germany ) was also the Breeding Director here in the USA for 12 years (with Old NA, OA and OSBA).

Either the GOV is the worst group of business people on the planet and ignored over a decade of Inspection and Approval results in the USA or they knew and approved of what was being done in their name in this country for over a decade.

In any event, the GOV’s current theme, “Hey American Oldenburg Breeders and purchasers, ignore what we did for the first 12 years and pay attention to what we’re doing now. Turns out that you couldn’t trust us then, but now we’re the best ” is a disaster for American Oldenburg Breeders.

There doesn’t have to be a “them vs. us” mentality. It could be a “let’s all push the ball forward together to benefit everyone” kind of effort, which would actually benefit ALL American Oldenburg Breeders.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

My mare was inspected in 9/24/1997 at Arno Koskos. RR was inspecting for the GOV at the time under the Oldenburger of America name. Her inspection was accepted by the GOV (current registry) the following year Dr Evelyn Vohlstad (sp?) was the inspector. Her foal was registered at that time.

[Sonesta]

deleted cause I forgot that I said I would keep my mouth and fingers shut