Can someone tell me about the Oldenburg NA?

[tri]

I think this all just shows what a complete disaster it is for american breeders to turn over their breeding efforts to a foreign country.

This could happen with ANY of the euro - backed registries here. Most people don’t know that it almost happened with the American Holsteiner Horse Association as well. Once upon a time, the Holsteiner brand was trademarked here in the U.S. and NOT by the Germans. It was held up for ransom for a while but fortunately, that matter was resolved though not without some bad blood. Then there was the whole turmoil with the Selle Francias folks with allegations of theft, etc.

As Down Yonder posted, the Oldenburg Verband is more focused on the German markets than the U.S. markets - as they should be. Just like all the other euro -backed registries here are here to promote their home country. Their goal is NOT to create a cohesive industry here that rivals what is in europe. Their goal is to further promote their home country, increase frozen semen sales and the sale of riding horses & breeding stock.

By putting our future into the hands of foreign registries that have less than our best interests at heart, we have set ourselves up for continuing problems.

However, the ISR/Old na could have been THE cohesive solution to uniting american breeders if they just didn’t think they had to have the Oldenburg name & brand. That turns my stomach. They are an american registry (even if the guy lives in Germany) and could have been the launch of the American Sporthorse as an internationally known and respected product.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=tri;2759738]
Most people don’t know that it almost happened with the American Holsteiner Horse Association as well. Once upon a time, the Holsteiner brand was trademarked here in the U.S. and NOT by the Germans. It was held up for ransom for a while but fortunately, that matter was resolved though not without some bad blood.[/QUOTE]

Yes, if I recall correctly, the Holsteiner brand was trademarked by Emil Jung, and ransomed for a a very handsome of money by a private citizen, who then turned it over to AHHA. I believe that is where ISR got the idea to trademark the Oldenburg brand - Emil Jung was Scott Hassler’s mentor.

@tri;2759738

However, the ISR/Old na could have been THE cohesive solution to uniting american breeders if they just didn’t think they had to have the Oldenburg name & brand. That turns my stomach. They are an american registry (even if the guy lives in Germany) and could have been the launch of the American Sporthorse as an internationally known and respected product.

And on this, I absolutely agree. ISR could have been THE #1 registry in North America, even without the Oldenburg name and brand. I think there are many people who would have supported it as a standalone registry, but they were turned off by the fact that it claimed the O and Crown as its own.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2759492]
My mare was inspected in 9/24/1997 at Arno Koskos. RR was inspecting for the GOV at the time under the Oldenburger of America name. Her inspection was accepted by the GOV (current registry) the following year Dr Evelyn Vohlstad (sp?) was the inspector. Her foal was registered at that time.[/QUOTE]

I thought the registries were not allowed to release DNA case #s.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

@DownYonder;2760042

I thought the registries were not allowed to release DNA case #s.

That is not a Davis rule. They have expressed their frustration on the lack of cooperation from some registries.

Maybe some of the registries have made a rule to hold it for ransom? For what purpose? To make someone register with their registry? Kind of backfires, don’t cha think?

I know you can get a copy of a horse’s bloodtyping from the Dutch for just a couple of bucks. The Dutch seem quite happy to help. Another reason I am glad to use the Dutch and AWS.

Even it the GOV refuses to let you know your OWN horse’s case number, why wouldn’t they return a call or email to say that? Is it even legal for a company to not release medical information when requested?

[DownYonder]

Beats me. I wll see what I can find out.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

Thanks. My most recent request was on 9/18/2007 by email. The Dutch request on my behalf was since then.

[Iron_Horse_Farm]

Just a litte confused. I don’t want to get in the middle of anything, just would like my question answered. There is another thread on here about the Chestnut Lawn Oldenburg inspection. On it they list mares that are 1/2 draft and 1/2 trakehner as well as a QH mare. Where are these horses going? WIll they be branded? Are their offspring listed as Oldenburgs? Only if they are bred to Oldenburg stallions?

Thanks, don’t string me up.

[Cartier]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2759492]
My mare was inspected in 9/24/1997 at Arno Koskos. RR was inspecting for the GOV at the time under the Oldenburger of America name. Her inspection was accepted by the GOV (current registry) the following year Dr Evelyn Vohlstad (sp?) was the inspector. Her foal was registered at that time.[/QUOTE]

Arno Kosko (sp?) who owned Traumtaunzer (sp?) inspected your mare… and the GOV accepted it? Arno… Arno the guy in VA?

Hmmmm?

That kind of puts this whole situation into the proper perspective.

Btw, we have video of an inspection with Roland Ramsauer at Arno’s and video of Arno out at some Wine County CA festival with a chestnut Ladykiller son… interesting performance, interesting man… but an inspector for the GOV???

[flshgordon]

@Iron Horse Farm;2760423

Just a litte confused. I don’t want to get in the middle of anything, just would like my question answered. There is another thread on here about the Chestnut Lawn Oldenburg inspection. On it they list mares that are 1/2 draft and 1/2 trakehner as well as a QH mare. Where are these horses going? WIll they be branded? Are their offspring listed as Oldenburgs? Only if they are bred to Oldenburg stallions?

Thanks, don’t string me up.

If it was an ISR/Old NA inspection, then they should go into the lower mare books of ISR, not Oldenburg NA. Their foals would be eligible for only the ISR brand and not be listed as Oldenburgs. If it was a GOV inspection then I have no idea.

Either way, the mares don’t get branded, only their offspring.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

@Cartier;2760431

Arno Kosko (sp?) who owned Traumtaunzer (sp?) inspected your mare… and the GOV accepted it? Arno… Arno the guy in VA?

Hmmmm?

That kind of puts this whole situation into the proper perspective.

Nope. My post:

My mare was inspected in 9/24/1997 at Arno Kosko’s. RR was inspecting for the GOV

[Oakstable]

I’m not wading through ANOTHER Oldenburg thread but I peeked at the most recent page.

I do think Oldenburg ISR is becoming the umbrella American registry for sporthorses.

I sense a movement away from the origins with the O … and it would be great for everyone if the O brand was returned in the US to the Verband.

I don’t have any mares or foals with the organization so I am really speaking from the peanut gallery.

I am basing my hunch on the number of stallions in the registry. It represents the widest selection of bloodlines in the US.

Just an opinion.

[not_again]

How can any registry with a foreign name, owner and/or office overseas represent America?

[Iron_Horse_Farm]

I guess I wasn’t clear because I’m not getting my question answered. At an ONA/ISR inspection there were mares presented that were 1/2 drafts, mares presented that were 1/2 Trakehner and mares that were QH. Are these mares inspected right alongside say a Sandro Hit mare? Do the scores then decide that one is going ONA and the other ISR? If the 1/2 draft is accepted only ISR, can the owner present the foal? If she can present the foal, is it an Oldenburg foal? I would think that if I am understanding correctly (and please correct me if I am wrong, because I am trying to figure this out) if all of the mares are presented and scored, wouldn’t it be an insult to be put in the ISR, since it is for “lower book” mares? My confusion comes from the many sales ads I have seen advertising an NA/ISR mare (or whatever) for sale. So does it have to be one or the other? With one being good and one not so good?

[flshgordon]

@not again;2760493

How can any registry with a foreign name, owner and/or office overseas represent America?

By paying attention to the needs of their clientele/members: Americans

[flshgordon]

@Iron Horse Farm;2760536

I guess I wasn’t clear because I’m not getting my question answered. At an ONA/ISR inspection there were mares presented that were 1/2 drafts, mares presented that were 1/2 Trakehner and mares that were QH. Are these mares inspected right alongside say a Sandro Hit mare? Do the scores then decide that one is going ONA and the other ISR? If the 1/2 draft is accepted only ISR, can the owner present the foal? If she can present the foal, is it an Oldenburg foal? I would think that if I am understanding correctly (and please correct me if I am wrong, because I am trying to figure this out) if all of the mares are presented and scored, wouldn’t it be an insult to be put in the ISR, since it is for “lower book” mares? My confusion comes from the many sales ads I have seen advertising an NA/ISR mare (or whatever) for sale. So does it have to be one or the other? With one being good and one not so good?

Sorry, I guess I did not do a good job of explaining. The first criteria is pedigree. If a mare does not meet a minimum of 50% approved bloodlines (the info on what registries that entails is on their site www.isroldenburg.org) then she is only eligible for the PRE-mare book which is in ISR. She must score a minimum of (I think) 90 points and if she gets 90 points, can be in the pre-mare book. If she gets 89 points, she is not approved for breeding at all. (so this would be for instance the QH if it is not more than 50% TB, or the draft, etc). If the horse has 50% of a 3 gen documented pedigree and gets not less than 90 points, it is eligible for the ISR Mare book (again…only offered in ISR). So in the above cases, the first criteria is pedigree. If you bring a QH mare that is 25% TB, even if she scores 112 points, she will still only be in the ISR book and only be approved ISR so her foals will be registered only ISR, not Oldenburg.

Then you move on to the Oldenburg mare books (main mare book & premium mare) where the requirement is (again I think) more than 75% approved pedigree and not less than 95 points or something like that for main and maybe 105 for premium?

Does that make it clear as mud?

Yes the QH, draft and Sandro hit’s will all get judged side by side but the QH and draft go in knowing they are only eligible for the lower books whereas the sandro hit would likely be eligible for the higher ones with the right score.

[talloaks]

@Iron Horse Farm;2760423

Just a litte confused. I don’t want to get in the middle of anything, just would like my question answered. There is another thread on here about the Chestnut Lawn Oldenburg inspection. On it they list mares that are 1/2 draft and 1/2 trakehner as well as a QH mare. Where are these horses going? WIll they be branded? Are their offspring listed as Oldenburgs? Only if they are bred to Oldenburg stallions?

Thanks, don’t string me up.

Hi Iron Horse Farm, I am looking at the results of the inspection at Chestnut Lawn Farm and there was a mare presented who was by a Trakehner stallion and out of a TB/Clyde mare, (so no more than 1/4 draft) and she was put in the lowest ISR book, the pre mare book. If she has a foal by an approved ISR/OLDNA stallion the foal could be branded with ISR. Not the OLDNA brand. Now the AQHA mare was bred to a pony stallion and actually she scored quite well with 103 points and went into the ISR pre mare book, so her pony foal by an approved ISR/OLDNA pony stallion will get an ISR brand.
These two mares can only have their foals registered as ISR foals and receive the ISR brand. Hope this helps. Incidentally the AQHA mare was really cute and a nice dam for a pony foal.

[flshgordon]

@Iron Horse Farm;2760536

So does it have to be one or the other? With one being good and one not so good?

Forgot to address this part. The score for an ISR mare/foal can still be good. She could get over 100 points but if the pedigree is not documented, you still have a really nice mare out of unknown parents who is only eligible for the lowest mare book

[Cartier]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2760466]
Nope. My post:[/QUOTE]

Oh thank god!!! :lol: “At” not “by.”

[tri]

“How can any registry with a foreign name, owner and/or office overseas represent America”

Well, that is what I meant - they need to drop the Oldenburg use - they aren’t oldenburgs - no one thinks that they are oldenburgs, they are born here, they are American. If I ran out and started a Dutch registry, somehow legally grabbed hold of the KWPN brand and started inspecting horses/branding them KWPN, would YOU think those horses were Dutch Warmblood horses??? I don’t think you would or anyone with half a brain.

This whole thing made a LOT of people turn up their noses at the ISR and I think the registry would have been just as well off if not a WHOLE LOT BIGGER/BETTER, if they hadn’t done it.

[Oakstable]

Well, it is impossible to rewrite history. At the time, it made sense to them. The market has moved on. The US does need an umbrella registry and this is it.

Oldenburg ISR does not need the crown with the O.

Maybe they need a new logo for the “oldenburg” side of the registry and leave the ISR designation for horses lacking bloodlines/pedigree.

Registeries are simply registeries, they are not breeds except for the Trakehners.