I’d like to believe that we can get better.
I’d like to believe that sexually abusing people with less power might raise the hackles of the most jaded horser who can stomach drugging animals or worse.
I’d like to believe that even drugging animals (or worse) will someday be equally abhorrent, taboo and rare as we’d like sexual molestation and abuse to me.
That we are not there yet on either score is not a reason to vigorously march toward those goals.
This thread shows we are not. The OP has knowledge of someone using SafeSport as a weapon and instead of calling the person out and reporting them starts a thread on COTH about loop holes.
I personally vote with my wallet and feel the cries of “what about the falsely accused” to be hilarious considering the convicted still do a booming business.
@Inclined my question was serious and intended respectfully. I don’t think is is realistic to simply suggest that everyone take personal responsibility for avoiding predators. Most potential predators are not as easily identified as the one you describe–there are plenty of predators who are well respected members of the community. Also, many kids are either inherently vulnerable or in vulnerable situations, and I’d prefer a system that protects those kids as well.
I asked the questions I asked because I feel like while it’s easy to sympathize with one side or the other, that doesn’t get to the heart of the matter. The heart of the matter is that when allegations of misconduct occur it creates a situation that is EXTREMELY difficult for people to navigate. There is a lot at stake. NO ONE–including me–wants to be the person either ruining someone’s career OR the person who lets a predator continue to harm kids. Historically the question of “what if I’m wrong?” paralyzes people.
The goal of Safe Sport is to take this difficult dilemma out of the hands of people who aren’t trained or prepared to deal with it (including myself) and offer an official process by which allegations can be investigated and minors can be protected in the interim. FWIW, an official investigation can also offer an innocent person the ability to formally clear their name.
I think the other purpose of the safe sport program is to educate more people and raise awareness across the board. Even if the online course is not specifically designed for horse sports, it certainly gives information about relevant things to notice in any setting. If that awareness translates into nipping a problem in the bud before someone is harmed, so much the better.
Your priorities are pretty wonky… you would prefer to protect an adult from Possible damage over stopping the rampant abuse in our sport? Every time someone considering making a report reads crapola like this you shut another mind to reporting their abuse.
^^Plus, as a teacher, you are a mandated reporter. If you have reason to suspect abuse in the conduct of your job, you are legally bound to report it— without pause for the impact it might have on a potential offender’s reputation if your report is found to be unsubstantiated. It’s the responsibility of investigators to determine if the report is founded or not, and the uncomfortable nature of saying, “I have reason to believe this might be so” necessarily takes a backseat to children’s safety.
It’s not altogether different with SafeSport. While you’re not a mandated reporter in this venue, I would think your profession would make you especially sensitive to priorities here. In order for an investigation to determine whether something sinister has occurred, we must care more about victims’ safety than our own nervousness or potential guilt over reporting, or what the consequences might be to an adult professional should a report be deemed unfounded. If we invert these priorities, the system can never work.
I know someone who was falsely accused, had a hearing, the suspension was overturned and there appears to be no damage to that person’s reputation. As far as I am concerned, the system worked. The false accusation was a horrible thing for them to go through, but it worked almost exactly as a situation would if there had been criminal charges.
Obviously I did not state myself clearly and in re-reading what I posted I notice that. In the case of any abuse against a minor, I am all about reporting and upholding the intentions of Safe Sport. I would report any accusation I hear about.
However, I do not believe than an anonymous accusation by an adult, of an abuse against an adult, should be taken as gospel truth until investigated - which is what Safe Sport has done and damaged the reputation of that person before taking them off the list when the accusation was proven completely unfounded. That is where there is an issue with Safe Sport that needs to be resolved.
I apologize for not stating myself clearly - I would never put a child’s well-being over that of an adult accused of harming them in anyway.
I wasn’t implying he was innocent. I know nothing either way. I was referring to the outrage of people who have to be assuming he was innocent.
If you are a mandated reporter you are a mandated reporter at all times, not just when at work. Mandated reporters must report any sign of abuse in any environment, day or night. It’s my understanding that the Safe Sport training also ensures that as far as USEF is concerned, ALL adult members are mandated to report signs of abuse to Safe Sport, even if they are skeptical about it. That is why I encourage the OP to report the trainer in her second hypothetical example. If you suspect or have knowledge of child abuse happening, even 40 years ago, you MUST report it if you are an adult USEF member. If you have knowledge of a trainer sexually harassing another professional (example #1) you must report that as well. Attempting to blackmail a pro into certain behavior by threat of false claims of sexual impropriety is harassment and should absolutely be investigated by Safe Sport.
Bolding mine. People who are so mad at the USEF about Safe Sport don’t seem to realize that it is a 2017 law passed by Congress (not you directed at you COAP). Additionally- you don’t get reported (I am a broken record on this) and immediately go on a public list. If you read the Safe Sport procedure- it is reported, facts are collected from both parties. Then a decision is made as to an intermediate suspension until the process is decided. If you get reported and there is no evidence of wrong doing, nothing gets out to the public.
Why isn’t this trainer who is allegedly harassing the other trainer and using SafeSport as a weapon being reported?
In my state, Illinois, this is actually untrue. Mandated Reporting legally requires certain individuals to report whenever they have reasonable cause to suspect neglect or abuse of minors known to them “by virtue of their professional or official capacity.”
This would not be the case for a teacher competing at a horse show or riding at a boarding stable where suspected abuse was occuring. That’s NOT to say it shouldn’t be reported, just that a teacher would not be legally bound to report in that instance.
I am in the camp that I am skeptical that false allegations are our biggest problem here.
SafeSport is an investigation process. They don’t suspend people based on anonymous phone calls. They collect evidence and do an investigation. An anonymous phone call might substantiate other allegations or might help uncover other evidence of abuse but it’s not going to be something they do on a triviality. This is all documented - and again this process is mandated by federal law.
Further, I see this as an assist to the criminal justice process. Yes, it is terrible that while under investigation someone who is not actually guilty might miss a horse show. But in the criminal justice process, that same accusation might land him in jail and paying a lot of money to a criminal defense attorney. Those are the options. (And of course both can happen in parallel.)
Sexual relationships with your minor students or work subordinates I know are common in this industry, and maybe people never learned that they’re not okay. So anyway, now you know: not okay. If this person is the love of your life, wait until they turn 18 and/or get them a job with someone else, so the relationship can be real and not tainted with power.
We need this process. But, it’s not our decision to make anyway - Congress already did because gymnastics and swimming and wrestling and many other sports could not solve this problem on their own, of sole proprietor coaches preying on athletes, drifting from town to town in the unlikely event they were caught.
To people worried about incorrect reports to SafeSport ruining someone’s life without due process, I want to provide my experience. A while ago I witnessed something questionable at a horse-related event. What I saw COULD have been just an odd interaction rather than a truly nefarious incident, but it left me feeling deeply uncomfortable. I don’t want to give too much detail but it did involve a minor, so I felt I needed to report it. So I did. I couldn’t have lived with myself if I hadn’t spoken up and later something came out.
SafeSport opened an investigation. Nothing was made public. The person I reported has not been suspended or announced as being under investigation or anything. I don’t know the status of the investigation now. Could have been closed, could still be open. In this case at least, reporting something did not automatically lead to consequences for the “accused.” Just one small bit of anecdata for those of you who are worried that false accusations can ruin someone’s life.
As someone who has four lawyers in the family, it will probably cost you about six figures to prove your innocence against “allegations”. Unfortunately, the allegations are enough to initiate suspensions and with or without Safe Sport, the behavior, when proven, is illegal anyway. Safe Sport seems to change the system to, “guilty until proven innocent”, which is not the way the American or British legal system was intended to work.
Incorrect. Read the procedures. See my above post.
I don’t understand all the posters who continue to insist that a person’s life and reputation are ruined when someone names them in a report to SafeSport. We have had more than one person familiar with how SafeSport works and with first-hand experiences who indicate that the first step is an investigation. As best I can determine, based on my own research after reading this thread, no one gets named publicly or put on any list until the claim has been investigated and substantiated to the satisfaction of SafeSport and no one gets any “interim suspensions” unless the initial investigation turns up good evidence that there is a concern.
The more I read, the more convinced I become that many of those who are so vehemently opposed to reporting a potential abuser to SafeSport are opposed because they fear that they, or someone they want to protect, are at risk of being reported for questionable behavior.
And I’m not saying that I think SafeSport is perfect. But I will note that when I did some research, I came across more articles claiming that SafeSport isn’t aggressive enough and fails to take action when they should, than articles claiming that SafeSport is ruining the reputations of innocent people.
You should ask the lawyers in the family if this is correct. HInt: they’re going to say, “No.”
There is almost never any doubt in my mind as to who the alters on SafeSport (or drugging, or USEF hearing) threads are. I don’t know why anyone would seriously enter into a dialog with “those people.”
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