Cane Corso moved in 3 doors down (Townhouses) am I being unreasonably concerned?

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=RacetrackReject;7688369]
There have been truly vicious labs, and if you think they are all cuddle puppies, you are setting yourself up to be a victim. I have seen quite a few of them that are aggressive and I have known some that were pts because of their aggression. Give Labs the horrible owners that many pittie breeds have and you might have more.

Yes, they are not bred to be guardian dogs or livestock dogs like Canes and Presas, but just like any other breed, there are bad apples. I also see many breeds getting more aggressive over the years. I think this is mostly due to indiscriminate breeding and congenital health issues.[/QUOTE]

I have spent years encouraging the family of EVERY puppy I do a well pet visit with to take their puppy to school. Every puppy we retain for our breeding program goes to at least 12 weeks of puppy class. The youngest is eight months and has been in school since 14 weeks of age–Torri is a young herding dog who is fabulous for us but would be a disaster dog in many homes. Very, very few people heed my advice, even when I explain that I’ve spent more time in puppy class (and other classes) than I can count.

It’s not absolute, but most labs and goldens are going to do better being raised by a clueless owner than a rottweiler or lab.

Indiscriminate breeding without regard to temperament is going to lead to unpleasant dogs. Temperament is priority number one for my mentor and me. I have trouble connecting some of the assorted congenital health issues (eye and heart issues) to aggression issue.

As for the OP, I would focus on the illegal off leash aspect as opposed to the specific breed. Is there an animal control officer you can speak with in addition to the HOA?

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=OneGrayPony;7688266]

There’s a posted note around my neighborhood about someone with two shorthaired dogs, one of whom BIT a 6 year old and LEFT! I think I know who the woman is that walks them, and the dogs are Visla’s or some sort of other sighthound.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, do not mean to quibble, but just in the interest of accuracy, Vizslas (note spelling) are not sighthounds. They are a Hungarian bree developed to hunt quail, partridge, pheasant, waterfowl, and small game by scent. They retrieve, point, and track wounded game by scent. They are in the AKC Sporting Group, with the Pointers, Setters, Retrievers, and Spaniels.

Sighthounds are in the AKC Hound Group, along with the scenthounds such as Beagles, Foxhounds, Coonhounds, Daschunds, Bloodhounds, Otterhounds, etc. Sighthounds are breeds that hunt by sight, and include Greyhounds, Whippets, Scottish Deerhounds, Irish Wolfhounds, Pharoah Hounds, Afghans, Borzoi, and others. Generally they are breeds that complete the predatory sequence, i.e., they see prey, chase it, and kill it.

Just did not want folks under the impression that Vizslas were sighthounds.

[Anne_FS]

Well, since we’re quibbling, and just in the interests of accuracy : the Borzoi’s job often was to not kill the wolf. Their job was to catch and hold it for capture alive. They were tough, TOUGH dogs, and I often think of Borzois (one of my favorite breeds) when we talk about pit bulls on here. Up through the 1970s Borzoi often had extremely sharp temperaments. Not surprising, but breeders did their jobs in breeding out the kind of temperament that made the Borzoi superb at its original job. But that’s a discussion for another thread.

Borzoi were often released in a brace (2) or leash (3) at a single wolf. They had to have the speed to run it down, the speed - after running - to grab it just under the ear, and the strength to hold on to an extremely fierce and strong Russian wolf until the hunters arrived.

[Houndhill]

I am very sorry to hear of such irresponsible behavior, no matter what breed of dog she has.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;7688952]
Well, since we’re quibbling, and just in the interests of accuracy : the Borzoi’s job often was to not kill the wolf. Their job was to catch and hold it for capture alive. They were tough, TOUGH dogs, and I often think of Borzois (one of my favorite breeds) when we talk about pit bulls on here. Up through the 1970s Borzoi often had extremely sharp temperaments. Not surprising, but breeders did their jobs in breeding out the kind of temperament that made the Borzoi superb at its original job. But that’s a discussion for another thread.

Borzoi were often released in a brace (2) or leash (3) at a single wolf. They had to have the speed to run it down, the speed - after running - to grab it just under the ear, and the strength to hold on to an extremely fierce and strong Russian wolf until the hunters arrived.[/QUOTE]

Right, I should have qualified my statement to say that generally sighthounds kill their prey, but if the prey is such thatbfights back, they may hold it as with Borzoi (but not Irish Wolfhounds) with wolves, or greyhounds with boar. Part of the judging of my breed, Irish Wolfhounds, is “fast enough to catch a wolf, and strong enough to kill it”. I appreciate the reminder that Borzoi were not expected to kill their prey if it was a wolf, but often worked in pairs or groups to hold the wolf until the human hunter came along to kill it. They were expected to kill other types of prey.

I know of several instances where that tendency to hold rather than to kill came in handy, when a pair of Borzoi working together “stretched” a cat, which survived the attack, when either hound separately could have killed it neatly.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;7688952]
Well, since we’re quibbling, and just in the interests of accuracy : the Borzoi’s job often was to not kill the wolf. Their job was to catch and hold it for capture alive. They were tough, TOUGH dogs, and I often think of Borzois (one of my favorite breeds) when we talk about pit bulls on here. Up through the 1970s Borzoi often had extremely sharp temperaments. Not surprising, but breeders did their jobs in breeding out the kind of temperament that made the Borzoi superb at its original job. But that’s a discussion for another thread.

Borzoi were often released in a brace (2) or leash (3) at a single wolf. They had to have the speed to run it down, the speed - after running - to grab it just under the ear, and the strength to hold on to an extremely fierce and strong Russian wolf until the hunters arrived.[/QUOTE]

I recall an incident at a dog show in the 1970s where a Borzoi ripped a Papillon out of its owners arms and killed it. An Irish Wolfhound killed a Schipperke at a dog show within the past 10 or 15 years.

That said, most Borzoi and most Irish Wolfhounds would not do that, I know very many who live nicely with toy breeds. I love both breeds!

Dog shows are a really weird environment with lots of people, some of whom are clueless, both exhibitors and spectators, and many dogs crammed together. Many dog shows now prohibit children in strollers, I can understand why.

[Houndhill]

…and, the “bring them to bay vs kill them” certainly applies to Rhodesian Ridgebacks, which although are usually classified as sighthounds, have a controversial classification. Certainly they were not expected to kill lions, just bring them to bay, and had a much broader role as a general farm dog in South Africa, hunting other game, protecting the farm, etc.

[Anne_FS]

In the late 1960s/early 1970s there was still discussion, even in The Borzoi Quarterly, about temperament, and the battle breeders had. I recall specifically one discussion in which one of the participants recalled talking to a young boy - under 10yo - with a long scar down the side of his face. The boy matter-of-factly stated that the scar was from one of their own Borzoi. Of course in the early part of the century there was much more about their fierceness, but as I said, it was still cropping up 50 years later, and guess what? Responsible breeders back then didn’t put blinders on: they knew what was the genetic predisposition and conscientiously bred it out. They didn’t blame the breed; fanciers knew the dogs were specifically genetically selected for prey drive and toughness, but that times had changed & if you wanted your breed to survive and if you wanted an astoundingly beautiful animal to share your home you had to pay attention to temperament.

The poor pit bulls and a lot of the CCorsos, etc. don’t have that, and still today people are genetically selecting for a temperament entirely unsuited to be placed in the average home, so when these dogs get dumped and “rescued,” there are way too many bad apples that just make it a nightmare for the good ones and the good breeders.

[Anne_FS]

[QUOTE=Houndhill;7689057]
…and, the “bring them to bay vs kill them” [/QUOTE]

Again, the Borzoi’s job was not to bring the wolf to bay, but to physically capture and hold the wolf alive. Big difference.

Bringing to bay, holding alive for capture, and killing your quarry are three separate things. The Borzoi was bred to do the second one.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;7689084]
Again, the Borzoi’s job was not to bring the wolf to bay, but to physically capture and hold the wolf alive. Big difference.

Bringing to bay, holding alive for capture, and killing your quarry are three separate things. The Borzoi was bred to do the second one.[/QUOTE]

Well, they are all behavioral patterns which have to do with, after you select and hold your prey. Those behavioral patterns are certainly related.

[Houndhill]

With the boy who had been attacked…certainly within a breed, Borzoi have been heavily selected against aggression to humans.

Irish Wolfhounds, another example, have been heavily selected against aggression to humans, for obvious reasons.

Both breeds, it does sometimes happen, but is not typical.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;7689084]
Again, the Borzoi’s job was not to bring the wolf to bay, but to physically capture and hold the wolf alive. Big difference.

Bringing to bay, holding alive for capture, and killing your quarry are three separate things. The Borzoi was bred to do the second one.[/QUOTE]

Right, they did not just catch them and bark at them, but actually attacked, but didn’t kill them, but held them until they were killed by the humans. Sorry for no t making this distinction.

[ellevt]

A few things:

First of all, to answer OP’s question. I don’t think you’re overreacting. This isn’t a huge risk just because it’s a Cane Corso, it’s a huge risk to have any large dog running uncontrolled. Many dogs will get aggressive at another dog approaching them in that fashion (especially little dogs). So, Cane runs up to a human walking Foofie, Foofie starts a fight, and obviously Cane wins. Now you have dead Foofie, possibly bitten human, and Cane labeled as aggressive. Never mind the recent rash of police officers shooting unrestrained dogs first and asking questions later.

If something were to happen, it could also increase insurance/ HOA fees for everyone.

Go to the neighbor, bring some cookies, and insist, politely, that he keep the dog leashed. Frame it as concern/ safety for the dog, not that you think he’s a bad handler (he is) or that all Cane Corsos are destined to maul someone (they aren’t). If that doesn’t work, go to the HOA. Next, police or animal control.

Secondly, breed specific bans DON’T WORK to reduce dog bites. Because it’s not the breed that causes the problem! The same macho types that don’t neuter, don’t socialize, don’t train-- when pit bulls get banned they move on to Filas or Presas or Canes. When those get banned, they’ll move onto something else.

Thirdly, boar hunting dogs don’t “maul the pig to death.” They hold it until the hunter can get a knife in to the boar’s throat.

[candysgirl]

[QUOTE=Sswor;7684362]
A pack of 25 miniature poodles couldn’t maul a jogger to death.

A dog big enough to maul an adult male human to death is a public safety hazard, I strongly believe, and should be regulated as such.

Also agree that these breeds serve no modern purpose, and the risk to the public outweighs any legitimate benefit to their existence, and they ought to be allowed to go extinct.[/QUOTE]

I would beg to differ here. Miniature poodles are 17lbs dogs. I have two who are big enough to do some damage given the proper motivation. They’re highly unlikely to. They think everyone they encounter is their new best friend, but they are big enough to do some damage. The toys (the under 10" variety) aren’t big enough to do much.

On the other side of that, my standard poodle is plenty big enough to maul an adult male given the proper motivation. She’s a 50lb, extremely athletic dog. She’s also rather protective of me and my daughter. Now, if you’re a friend coming over, she’ll just eyeball you from the other side of the room until you come over a few times. Then you two can be friends. However, if someone kicked the door in and threatened me or my daughter, I have no doubt she would seriously make them regret that decision.

[vacation1]

[QUOTE=ellevt;7689178]
… it’s a huge risk to have any large dog running uncontrolled. Many dogs will get aggressive at another dog approaching them in that fashion (especially little dogs). So, Cane runs up to a human walking Foofie, Foofie starts a fight, and obviously Cane wins. Now you have dead Foofie, possibly bitten human, and Cane labeled as aggressive. Never mind the recent rash of police officers shooting unrestrained dogs first and asking questions later.[/QUOTE]

It’s not typical or normal or non-aggressive for a 150lb dog to kill a 10lb dog. It’s not an accident when it happens, it’s not because the big dog mistook the little dog for a squeaky toy, a squirrel or a potato chip. It happens because the big dog is aggressive. A non-aggressive dog does not bite into another dog and shake him to death, puncture his lungs, break his spine, etc. Not even if the other dog “started it” by being defensive when the large dog approached. This is not a dog fight that went poorly for the smaller dog because size matters; it’s an attack. Dogs aren’t morons, they know damned well when the dog they’re approaching is smaller and less dangerous than they are. The reason having a dog running offleash is dangerous is that it could get a dog killed, not that it could get an aggressive dog “labelled” or misunderstood, or raise the owner’s insurance rates.

And here’s the world’s tiniest violin for the big dogs who didn’t realize that a cop is the world’s largest dog and really, not as safe to threaten as the senior citizen’s Yorkie.

@ellevt;7689178

Secondly, breed specific bans DON’T WORK to reduce dog bites. Because it’s not the breed that causes the problem! The same macho types that don’t neuter, don’t socialize, don’t train-- when pit bulls get banned they move on to Filas or Presas or Canes. When those get banned, they’ll move onto something else.

They already did. The pits are the poodle of trailer trash, they’ve been crossed so often and so freely there’s an entire category of crossbreed dedicated to them in the Bandogges. ie, you want to fake out a dog ban, so you say your pit is a mastiff cross. Which it is - with pit bull. This BS isn’t new, it’s been going on since the 1980s. The big difference isn’t the dogs or the freak owners, it’s the rescue movement. We now lack an apparatus to remove bad dogs from the world, as the sheltering community has largely retreated from the “control” part of animal control and focused on a numbers game of rehoming anything with a pulse.

And neutering, training and socialization aren’t magic. They help make young dogs into old ones, by making them easier to live with so they’re not surrendered at 1.5yo for eating yet another pillow. What they don’t do is determine if Fido will eat the family’s toddler. That’s pure temperament. You can’t train that. You can train a dog not to BITE a child, but you can’t train a dog not to maul or kill it. A normal dog doesn’t maul or kill people. The breeds that do are totally predictable based on the well-documented past records, and banning them does indeed work to virtually eliminate serious dog attacks.

@ellevt;7689178

Thirdly, boar hunting dogs don’t “maul the pig to death.” They hold it until the hunter can get a knife in to the boar’s throat.

Yes, sometimes, pig dogs chase and bite the pig, then clamp their jaws onto his head and face to hold him so the hunters can knife the pig to death. And sometimes the hunters shoot the pig instead. And sometimes the doggies get to maul the pig up a bit or a lot, and sometimes the pig gets to maul the dogs up a lot. It all varies a bit. The point is, it’s a bloodsport and apart from the morality of it from the hunting/pig POV, the talents involved are not those you wish to see in a family pet - high-drive, predatory aggression married to abnormal tenacity and a high pain threshhold. This is a far cry from normal hunting dogs, like retrievers, whose only real drawback is an annoying tendency to badger you about throwing tennis balls.

[khall]

vacation, really?

Here are some professionals in vet medicine that disagree with you on so many points.

http://avsabonline.org/uploads/position_statements/Breed-Specific_Legislation-download-1.pdf

OP I do agree with majority here, dog should be leashed for it’s safety and others.

[JanM]

I wouldn’t drop over with cookies at puppy owner’s house, he’s made it clear that he’s the world’s best dog trainer, dog is growing up exactly as he’s planned it, and the dog will be a problem, because roaming, uncontrolled, untrained animals are a problem. I would keep on with the HOA, and if the dog is on public property unleashed, animal control should be called, and by any other dog owners, also. I worry about a large, roaming dog and little kids, because it’s easy for a large dog to knock a little kid down, even if it’s just to say Hi, or just by sheer size of an untrained dog.

[gottagrey]

[QUOTE=ellevt;7689178]
A few things:

First of all, to answer OP’s question. I don’t think you’re overreacting. This isn’t a huge risk just because it’s a Cane Corso, i
Go to the neighbor, bring some cookies, and insist, politely, that he keep the dog leashed. Frame it as concern/ safety for the dog[/QUOTE]

I have done this on numerous occasions to no avail. The last time, which prompted this thread, the pup came running over from nowhere and jumped on my dog (who is submissive). Right now they’re out of town so we’ll see what happens when they come back

[ellevt]

@vacation1;7689431

The breeds that do are totally predictable based on the well-documented past records, and banning them does indeed work to virtually eliminate serious dog attacks.

Citation please?

[ellevt]

Yeah, if that’s the case, then I would start calling animal control when you see the dog off leash. Not a good situation.