Yeah, if that’s the case, then I would start calling animal control when you see the dog off leash. Not a good situation.
Sorry, do not mean to quibble, but just in the interest of accuracy, Vizslas (note spelling) are not sighthounds. They are a Hungarian bree developed to hunt quail, partridge, pheasant, waterfowl, and small game by scent. They retrieve, point, and track wounded game by scent. They are in the AKC Sporting Group, with the Pointers, Setters, Retrievers, and Spaniels.
Ahhh sorry - I didn’t mean to make it sound like the Visla’s were sighthounds. I actually meant to say OR scenthounds and was thinking perhaps the dogs that bit were coonhounds (if they weren’t Visla’s). Just hard to tell the two apart from a distance!
Dog shows are a really weird environment with lots of people, some of whom are clueless, both exhibitors and spectators, and many dogs crammed together. Many dog shows now prohibit children in strollers, I can understand why.
Have you ever seen Best in Show? LOL But yes, I can’t even imagine trying to manage that chaos!
Of course in the early part of the century there was much more about their fierceness, but as I said, it was still cropping up 50 years later, and guess what? Responsible breeders back then didn’t put blinders on: they knew what was the genetic predisposition and conscientiously bred it out. They didn’t blame the breed; fanciers knew the dogs were specifically genetically selected for prey drive and toughness, but that times had changed & if you wanted your breed to survive and if you wanted an astoundingly beautiful animal to share your home you had to pay attention to temperament.
A similar thing in Dobermans happened. There was a very sharp show dog that was ill-tempered back in the…I think it was the 30s? Maybe? Gave them a very bad rep in the 50s. And when the breed initially started they were terrier-bred (and we all know unpleasant terriers). But now they are bred to pass the WAE, which is an evaluation that you do before the dog is really trained. They need to accept a friendly stranger, ignore a passive one, be curious about new things, not be afraid of gunshots, and hold an aggressive/scary stranger (bark/hold, they are not to actually bite without command).
This is not to say that there aren’t ill-bred dogs, or breeders who are indiscriminate, but that happens in almost every breed. The only dog I’ve ever been truly terrified of was my grandmother’s cocker spaniel. It was so nuts that no one could take her after my grandmother passed away, and they euthed the dog and buried her with my grandmother. She was VICIOUS.
[QUOTE=OneGrayPony;7689963]
Have you ever seen Best in Show? LOL But yes, I can’t even imagine trying to manage that chaos!
A similar thing in Dobermans happened. There was a very sharp show dog that was ill-tempered back in the…I think it was the 30s? Maybe? Gave them a very bad rep in the 50s. And when the breed initially started they were terrier-bred (and we all know unpleasant terriers). But now they are bred to pass the WAE, which is an evaluation that you do before the dog is really trained. They need to accept a friendly stranger, ignore a passive one, be curious about new things, not be afraid of gunshots, and hold an aggressive/scary stranger (bark/hold, they are not to actually bite without command).
This is not to say that there aren’t ill-bred dogs, or breeders who are indiscriminate, but that happens in almost every breed. The only dog I’ve ever been truly terrified of was my grandmother’s cocker spaniel. It was so nuts that no one could take her after my grandmother passed away, and they euthed the dog and buried her with my grandmother. She was VICIOUS.[/QUOTE]
That’s the so called cocker rage syndrome, which appears to be linked, at least in many cases, to thyroid problems and partial complex seizures.
Only dog that ever bit me was a Cocker Spaniel…I was about 2 and was told not to pet him…didn’t listen and he bit me on the hand.
That’s the so called cocker rage syndrome, which appears to be linked, at least in many cases, to thyroid problems and partial complex seizures.
She had two of them (not at the same time, one after the other) who both had the issue. I do not approach cocker spaniels intentionally laughing
[QUOTE=vacation1;7689431]
It’s not typical or normal or non-aggressive for a 150lb dog to kill a 10lb dog. It’s not an accident when it happens, it’s not because the big dog mistook the little dog for a squeaky toy, a squirrel or a potato chip. It happens because the big dog is aggressive. A non-aggressive dog does not bite into another dog and shake him to death, puncture his lungs, break his spine, etc. Not even if the other dog “started it” by being defensive when the large dog approached. This is not a dog fight that went poorly for the smaller dog because size matters; it’s an attack. Dogs aren’t morons, they know damned well when the dog they’re approaching is smaller and less dangerous than they are. The reason having a dog running offleash is dangerous is that it could get a dog killed, not that it could get an aggressive dog “labelled” or misunderstood, or raise the owner’s insurance rates.
.[/QUOTE]
Actually, this is incorrect. Look up “prey drive”. It can be triggered in an instant, in a dog that is normally not aggressive to other dogs, and the other dog is normally killed. A high pitched squeak, yelp, glimpse of a small pet running, can all trigger it.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7689988]
That’s the so called cocker rage syndrome, which appears to be linked, at least in many cases, to thyroid problems and partial complex seizures.[/QUOTE]
Um, no, it’s not. That’s probably dominance aggression which, yes, can be linked to low serotonin metabolites. Cornell did a lot of research on this.
But a dog who is constantly vicious or nuts and hates everybody all the time – that’s not necessarily rage syndrome, which term, btw, is obsolete. It’s more accurately termed SOA (Sudden Onset Aggression). Of course in grandma’s cocker spaniel it could be mere poorly-bred temperament combined with spoiled rotten, as well as possibly medical. In “rage syndrome” they’ll often approach you afterwards totally normally, even submissively.
Would I be concerned a Cane Corso moved in down the road? Nope. Would I be concerned that the neighbor is an asshat? You betcha.
And thanks, vacation, for clearing something up for me. All this time as a pit owner, with no issues, I thought I fell firmly into the category of ‘responsible dog owner’. And now, all these years later, you enlighten me that I’m ‘trailer trash’. Thanks for straightening that out. For Pete’s sake, can’t folks disagree without being an asshat about it? Sheesh.
look up “prey drive”. It can be triggered in an instant, in a dog that is normally not aggressive to other dogs, and the other dog is normally killed. A high pitched squeak, yelp, glimpse of a small pet running, can all trigger it.
Yep, I’ve got a high prey/play drive Dobe and I would not trust her with cats (although she did catch up to a bunny once and did NOTHING other than sniff it’s butt. The bunny was not pleased) nor any small running thing. Channeled, it’s a very good drive, as it’s the same as the instinct to play fetch. Unchanneled it can be a bit of an issue, as she also wants to chase cars (she indicates this by spinning like a goob at the end of the leash when they drive by if she has pent up energy).
My other Dobe has none of this. He also is terrible at playing catch or fetch. He is a very pack-oriented dog, and thrives on praise (and nothing else).
Of course in grandma’s cocker spaniel it could be mere poorly-bred temperament combined with spoiled rotten, as well as possibly medical.
I suspect that with my grandmother’s cockers it was poor-breeding potentially with some spoiling. She was a dog person though, and did a lot of rescue work so I’m not sure that’s all of the case!
And a piss poor job they are doing at that! I took my dog to a WAE last month…out of 32 dogs entered only 10 passed. PATHETIC and SAD!!!
Mine passed with flying colors of course 
And a piss poor job they are doing at that! I took my dog to a WAE last month…out of 32 dogs entered only 10 passed. PATHETIC and SAD!!!
WOW! That’s a small number. I was going to do it when mine were younger, but I didn’t have the paperwork on my female straightened out yet. Not sure how much sense it makes sense to do with a 7 and a 6 year old at this point, but I would definitely take my next one. What were they failing on the most?
The very last thing…the aggressor. They either just stood there with a blank look on their face or tried to run for the hills not caring what happened to their owner!
The very last thing…the aggressor. They either just stood there with a blank look on their face or tried to run for the hills not caring what happened to their owner!
Wow - so they are actually breeding them too soft? Amazing.
My big guy was not particularly well-bred (I got him before I knew too much) but even he got between me and someone he found to be a threat. My female is Euro working line and definitely would respond to a threat. I think my male would be a challenge on the footing. Even though he’s a great hiker, sometimes he doesn’t like weird feelings on his feet laughing
Way too soft!
He’d probably be fine…they have so much going on I don’t think most of them noticed the different footings. Both of mine are Euro working/show lines. I didn’t see one working dog fail…all the failed dogs were American bred show dogs.
And, btw, I have nothing against “show dogs”. I show my dogs in performance & conformation. I do have a problem with how they are breeding the true temperament out of the Doberman.
Vtdobes, I’m surprised, but not terrifically. When they take working tests out of any show animal (horses included) the breed standards go to sh*t. I don’t show. Wanted to do schutz with my male but he took the burlap and refused to let go. Trainer who mostly dealt with GSDs said he would be very difficult to train to let go on command. Since we had to choke him to get him to let go of the burlap, I agreed. He then grew too big to really feel like he’d make a good schutz dog anyway. I didn’t realize then that the strategy with him was just going to have to change.
Update: murder charges in the jogger death.
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2014/07/warrants_issued_in_deadly_dog.html
and
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/01/murder-charges-couple-killed-by-dog_n_5641036.html
"LAPEER, Mich. (AP) — Prosecutors have filed second-degree murder charges against a couple they say owned two dogs that fatally mauled a 46-year-old jogger in rural Michigan.
"The Flint Journal (http://bit.ly/1kpvj4S ) reports that Lapeer County Prosecutor Tim Turkelson issued the warrants Thursday against 45-year-old Sebastiano Quagliata and 44-year-old Valbona Lucaj. They’re also charged with possessing a dangerous animal causing death.
"A message seeking comment was left for the couple’s lawyer Thursday night. The dogs are cane corsos.
"Craig Sytsma of Livonia was attacked July 23 in Metamora Township, 45 miles northwest of Detroit.
"The Detroit Free Press reports that federal authorities say the couple are Albanians living in the U.S. illegally and facing deportation.
“The prosecutor says a hearing on whether the two dogs will be put down will be postponed from Friday.”
The Doberman breed is almost completely ruined. I say that after owning American and Euro, working and show, and watching many more of both attempt to do ring. I was on a general doberman-fancier FB group and basically 99.9% of the population should be happy, because they just want a cool looking dog that acts like a golden. I had to get off, I couldn’t stand another post with baby’s hugging miserable dogs. Or glorifying albinos, etc.
A good handler can prep weak dogs for most things. I’m not sure how I view temperament tests after observing some dogs who have passed. And they keep making everything easier (IPO jumps, stick whatever). Obviously passing is better than failing, and I don’t mean that as a slam on your dog pasing VT–I’m sure it’s a great dog, I think you know what you are about, but I’m just I’m surprised at some dogs that DO pass.
Yes I am a little bitter. I love dobes. I’m not sure I will get another.
The whole problem with this thread is that the owner isn’t using a leash. That’s the reason for most dog attacks too–no leash. If you could get a handle on loose dogs and also stop people from tethering dogs in their front yard, then I think the only bites you would basically have left are in-your-own-household. It’s actually a simple solution that will probably never get implemented.
I’m not taking it as a slam There were a few of the passing dogs that I found questionable myself (mine not being one!). My dogs WORKS and has proven himself in multiple temperament tests such as CGC, ATT, WAC & BH along with his working titles.
If you are interested:
http://bobcatmorgans.com/beck.html
[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;7693430]
The whole problem with this thread is that the owner isn’t using a leash. That’s the reason for most dog attacks too–no leash. If you could get a handle on loose dogs and also stop people from tethering dogs in their front yard, then I think the only bites you would basically have left are in-your-own-household. It’s actually a simple solution that will probably never get implemented.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely agree!!
