Canter aid confused hunter/jumper rider

[eclipse]

So I’m a hunter/jumper rider, and now riding school horses. This week we just had a retired ex Grand Prix dressage horse come to our barn to be a lesson flat horse and I had the extreme pleasure of riding him in his first lesson. He is just lovely , although far too big for me, and an absolute angel but I had a heck of a time picking up canter especially on the right lead! I’m thinking he’s not used to our normal aids as a jumper rider, can someone please let me know how a dressage horse differs in a canter transition (I could feel him really more trying to push his haunches in) so I’m thinking I need way more seat than I’m used to?

Everything else was fabulous and I had an absolute blast…. His trot is so dreamy once I got used to the different “bounce” and the extended trot! Oh my! Such a fun fun time…. But the canter

Just for fun this is the amazing horse I got to ride ……!I am so lucky! His new owner has sent him to us to be a school horse

Günter Seidel & Zero Gravity Win Del Mar CDI3* Grand Prix Special -...

[Mersidoats]

If your outside leg is too far back, you will get haunches in. If you are too far down on your inside seat bone, or are unlevel you will get the opposite canter lead you want. Generally, the canter aid is outside leg a little bit back, inside leg at the girth, and inside seat lifts. Lifting can mean different things to different people (and horses). Other ways to think about it; twist your belt buckle towards the outside slightly. Timing for the aid is when the inside hind (or the hind leg for the lead you want) is coming forward. If you ask from posting trot, it’s from the up phase if you are on the correct diagonal.

[CHT]

Are you able to ask his owner about his canter leads?

I was lent a (far less impressive) dressage horse for lessons once. My students could only get the one lead…turned out the rider only used one leg for canter transitions. Either outside leg back or inside leg at the girth, depending on the lead. I guess she found it helped her horse stay straighter.

[eclipse]

I am able to ask

[eclipse]

Thank you…. I didn’t get a counter canter thankfully but more just a faster trot and haunches Inlol! He’s also a bit out of shape so this came out when he was a bit tired! Definitely more my fault though and I do think I was putting my leg too far back lol

[luvmyhackney]

When I rode a fancy dressage horse it was outside leg behind girth and lift my inside hip like I was following a bicycle pedal in a circle while sitting straight and using my abs.

It took me a few tries to figure it out. I kept getting a super collected canter and very little forward for at least 3 lessons when I wasn’t getting accidental changes.

[pluvinel]

@eclipse

I could feel him really more trying to push his haunches in) so I’m thinking I need way more seat than I’m used to?

This was a GP horse? He is telling you your aids are TOO BIGGGG! Some people use the inside leg to ask for canter depart (French system)

Gunter Seidel’s horse? Use this horse to learn subtle aids.

[eclipse]

Thank you I was definitely using too big of an aid! My hands could be lovely and light (he’s just in a plain snaffle and is just so lovely) so now I get to figure out my legs! I am so looking forward to next week! And yes zero has been with a different lady since 2016’ish and now we are lucky enough to have him!

My pic of his face from yesterday

[atr]

The simple approach would be to think inside hip forward instead of outside leg back. Horses taught this way stay straighter in the tempi changes.

(My barn mate has just become the proud owner of a horse with the same kind of training. She has been struggling with this, too!)

And yeah. Small aids. My schoolmaster is much happier when I dont “yell” at him!

What a nice opportunity… we may lure you to the dark side!

[Janet]

You only need the outside leg if the horse starts to swing his haunches out. You lift the inside seatbone, possibly assisted by a light touch of the inside leg at the girth.

Yes, it is a seat aid.
No, it is NOT “more” seat.
Less is more.

[Sancudo]

Yep to all of the above, it’s a seat aid, like a “scoop” of the inside seat bone to imagine the back lifts and jumps underneath it, and the outside hip back/stable. Outside leg will be too loud and a lateral aid I’d bet. Also he’s probably used to collected trot/walk into collected canter, so if he’s getting strung out or on the forehand while you try to find the timing, I’d stop and regroup rather than keep trying for “more”.

[pluvinel]

@eclipse

Thank you I was definitely using too big of an aid!

For a horse like this, just “THINK” that you are going to canter, put the feel of canter in your body, eg., like starting a “skipping step”…done with conviction…no doubts…and see what happens.

[VodkaRedbullx2]

Hunter jumper & green young horses= outside leg back on the down pushibg balance over and on forehand
Dressage - upper level- inside hip lifts inside shoulder up in the transition. Slight positioning back with outside leg but it’s really the hip that talks.
Totally different aids

[eclipse]

Thank you everyone……I’m looking forward to next week and trying what you’ve advised! Will report back next Tuesday as that’s my flat lesson day

[netg]

Wow! Lucky you! I’ve been told such horses are humbling, but what a great opportunity!

I agree with Pluvinel on thinking canter more than anything. Thinking of lifting inside hip absolutely made me contort in weird ways, but was all know how a canter feels, so do that.

You may want to go from a walk, and give preparatory half halts to make sure he is balanced. However, be prepared, as first step may feel as if he’s about to go over a GP Oxer, and if you pull in his mouth in the transition will end up struggling even more!

[Equibrit]

All you should need to do is slightly raise you inside hip toward the horse’s leading leg, in a diagonal shift and lift of weight from your outside hip to the inside. You should maybe work on balance and seat before struggling with this. Your position should be totally different than you are used to, and your entire means of remaining in the saddle in dressage are balance and seat. If your body is even slightly forward from the waist up, you are going to fail.

[dressagenomad]

Oh how I lived this struggle for a long time when I switched to dressage. Some tips that helped me along the way -

Start with a good uphill balance in the trot
Just think canter - really does work with a well-trained horse, especially with top horses because the problem usually comes back to you giving too much/many aid(s)
Use a rocking motion of your pelvis to encourage the horse to lift his back into the canter
If you’e getting haunches in, you might be holding too much with the leg, think of a quick “and we go” into the canter in one stride
Focus on asking with the inside leg - your outside leg will still contribute to the “ask” because your body will automatically move it, but in a more subtle way

[merrygoround]

Think of lifting your hips into waltz rhythm, as you slide your outside leg slightly back., which will put your weight in correct position.

Think of Tennessee Waltz.

[2tempe]

My horse goes off inside seat forward and inside leg. Can I tell you that I’m green with envy that you have the opportunity to ride this quality of a horse; the ones that are really talented competition-wise are not as often suitable as “schoolmaster” types. ENJOY!!

[Bogey2]

Make sure he’s collected and don’t throw the reins away…this is usually what I deal with when I put non dressage riders on my dressage horses LOL