[QUOTE=TheJenners;8470238]
They lowered the flag for a drunk driver? :no: Sorry and all, but just no.[/QUOTE]
From the Palm Beach Post:
The flag flies at half-staff over Global Dressage Stadium in Wellington, Florida on January 4, 2016.
This is not the jumping venue where Andres competed. However, the loss of 2 young people is something to mourn irregardless .
[QUOTE=akor;8471065]
These situations always make me so introspective…had I gone with “the love of my life” - I am fairly certain I would have died, or become a vegetable, from some chemical/speed/Porsche related incident on I-280 in N. Cal. Or, some not so well thought out platonic or so called relationship in FL with someone else with a Porsche or another VERY fast, very powerful, vehicle. I’ve had brief encounters with both, one with the driver NOT under the influence of anything but maybe coffee and one with.
For some reason, some of us have survived more than one and accident waiting to happen seatbeltless, chemically enhanced brush with death or more like opportunity for death incident (note - I have not heard if either of them were wearing seatbelts) and some do not. We’ve gotten warnings or passes where others would be jailed.
Life is not fair. Some people get “passes” repeatedly and some do not. He did not, and sadly, his actions and choices caused the death of someone else. She also made a choice, though, to get in the car, however not 100% she was at the time, I find it hard to believe his reputation did not proceed him.
We never think it “will happen to us” - we think it happens to others, who make even worse choices, but sometimes, it’s there, staring us in the face, we were just lucky.
So, today, I thank my guardian angel, who while I think may drink a bit too much herself, kept me alive to nearly 50 so far, and I grieve for those who loved these two, who will spend every day of their lives thinking what if and if only and…
As for the drinking part, I also must say that ANYONE who has driven a vehicle that says they have NEVER let themselves become distracted, you are in denial. Rather than blaming someone, or judging because alcohol was involved, I suggest you take a moment to say a “thank you” to whatever power you believe in that your changing radio stations, eating, talking on the phone, texting, rustling in a bag, trying to beat light, passing when it wasn’t really safe, drinking coffee, etc did not result in the taking of another life or a serious accident.[/QUOTE]
This. And also skydy’s post.
Those!
[QUOTE=Mardi;8470525]
The point being that someone at that birthday party, where the victims had been, had to have known of the extreme risk he was taking to drive home, with or without a passenger.
If only someone had taken his keys.
:([/QUOTE]
In Sweden no one drinks and drives. Here it is also against the law but not taken seriously. Such a senseless tragedy. I’m sure there are plenty of should of, would have, could have recriminations being suffered.
[QUOTE=uphill;8471130]
From the Palm Beach Post:
The flag flies at half-staff over Global Dressage Stadium in Wellington, Florida on January 4, 2016.
This is not the jumping venue where Andres competed. However, the loss of 2 young people is something to mourn irregardless .[/QUOTE]
There are a couple of jumper classes there out on the derby field over the course of the winter, so either Andres or Sophie may have shown there in the last few years.
It is private property, so it is perfectly legal to lower the flag there, as others have said.
People, think before you post. This is a tragedy - the death of two young, beautiful, smart, talented young people. Their loved ones are hurting and grieving.
This:
[QUOTE=akor;8471065]
We never think it “will happen to us” - we think it happens to others, who make even worse choices, but sometimes, it’s there, staring us in the face, we were just lucky.
So, today, I thank my guardian angel, who while I think may drink a bit too much herself, kept me alive to nearly 50 so far, and I grieve for those who loved these two, who will spend every day of their lives thinking what if and if only and…[/QUOTE]
I know beyond a doubt that I’m only here because of my vigilant guardian angel or, more likely, just dumb luck.
[QUOTE=skydy;8471100]
After reading this thread I am, once again, stunned at the disconnect that many people exhibit between their behavior IRL and on the internet. Or perhaps I have just had the luck NOT to know people who would pontificate about the possibility that very recently deceased people may have made an error in judgement that led to the car crash in which they died.
Yuck.
I would hope that those of you who feel the need to lecture online at this point in time, would have the sense not to do so in the presence of grieving families IRL.
What you don’t seem to understand is, that in this day and age, you are doing just that, by doing so online…
Maybe you really don’t care, and would lecture grieving families, friends, or acquaintances of people who have died suddenly. In any instance, I am glad not to know you, and thankful that I know no one like you…[/QUOTE]
Posters are not sharing their comments in the presence of grieving family members. This is an online discussion among strangers about a tragic car accident where alcohol was involved. Can’t you see the difference? In the present context, it seems perfectly acceptable to reflect sadly on both the loss of life and the role drunk driving played in the accident.
People forget so easily that friends and loved ones have Internet access too. As we have seen far too often before on COTH. Of course we all have freedom of speech, but that does not mean your speech does not have the ability to hurt others. It does.
I am so sorry for all involved. It is such a senseless loss and is certainly a tragedy. People make mistakes; they paid with their lives. That is a very high price. There is nothing left to say. You can’t turn back time.
Whereas I immediately started messaging friends of Chepito saying see what I tell you about driving drunk???
These people, friends and family, will be sad and grieving the rest of their lives. But get angry now!!! Be mad at your friend for killing himself!!! For killing his passenger. Thank God those are the only two who died. They’re dead, people. Gone. Because too stupid and selfish and arrogant to call a cab.
Make a promise to yourself and your loved ones not to do the same. tell your friends they are stupid and selfish and dangerous if they try to get behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated. Seriously don’t whine about how callous people are. Life and death. I don’t care if people think I’m mean if it keeps them alive.
[QUOTE=tja789;8471253]
Posters are not sharing their comments in the presence of grieving family members. This is an online discussion among strangers about a tragic car accident where alcohol was involved. Can’t you see the difference? In the present context, it seems perfectly acceptable to reflect sadly on both the loss of life and the role drunk driving played in the accident.[/QUOTE]
Except this isn’t exactly a private conversation – you could be in the presence of grieving family members and not know it.
I am not sure why it is wrong to mention that it makes this extra horrible that this death was caused by someone drinking and driving?
Young people dying sucks. Young people dying because someone got drunk and drove anyway totally sucks.
I am sure the families associated feel the same way.
It helps no one to pretend that this did not happen.
I don’t think it is wrong to deplore drunk driving and hope this never happens again. I believe the mods have removed the really offensive post.
I don’t think it is wrong to deplore drunk driving and hope this never happens again. the mods have removed the really offensive post. (Thank you!)
You know, with freedom comes responsibility. The responsibility to use judgment in one’s actions and in one’s choice of words and when to use them. There is SO little emphasis on the “responsibility” side of the freedom equation in our society. (The chronic mis-use of the Internet is the large symptom of all this and the self-absorption that is fed by the iPhone.)
I agree with all the posters here who have said that a conversation on impaired driving should be held for another day. So, let’s have that “another day” in the near future, so that this tragedy is not turned into a waste.
It is never a good policy to make policy when emotions are raw and running high. Take time, gain perspective, find the words, then start talking.
I feel sorry for the person/persons/bar/restaurant/home owner who served the drinks can legally be held liable and sued!
Total senseless tragidy…
[QUOTE=longtimelurker;8471294]
Except this isn’t exactly a private conversation – you could be in the presence of grieving family members and not know it.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think the family members are spending their time on COTH right now. This may be a surprise but this forum is not the epicenter of the horse world. If people want to support the families, send them a card or a message in the guestbook when it is posted online or send them a direct message. It is one thing to comment online about how tragic this accident, like other accidents of this type, was. But it seems so strange (to me) to be offering condolences on a forum expecting that the families are on here reading them. When I have lost immediate family members, I didn’t spend a lot of time online other than when I received notice of emails or direct messages.
Exactly orangecrush. My first reaction to all this was “if I were family, what would my expectations be”. I would certainly not be expecting that a public forum would be a place to go for condolence. That is the role of those newspaper/online condolence pages.
First of all, sincere deep condolences to the families and friends of both parties. It is truly awful. I can’t even imagine the pain of the spouses.
However I can picture a little of it, as my stepsister lost hers in a very similar way. I was the ‘friends and family’. I saw the comments, on facebook, on news posts, etc, (albeit a little later on) when her significant other was killed. Small community, same idea. Before anything was confirmed there was speculation, and tho frustrating, most was right. And she was in the car too. Got a drive home with someone they thought hadn’t been drinking ‘much’. Tho they knew she was drinking. And the driver hadn’t had much, but it was enough. They were all super nice people. All friends. My stepsister walked away with barely more than an extremely broken heart full of regret. She was in the front, no seatbelt. He was in the back, buckled in. Sometimes, the world doesn’t make sense.
I didn’t need to bear witness to her situation to know not to drive drunk, I never had, and I never will. And I don’t mean that in a holier than thou sort of way. I’ve made lots of mistakes in life, lots, just not that one - that’s in its own category for me, always was. But let me tell you, the first hand experience, watching it unfold, certainly emblazoned it into my brain. And at his funeral, just a couple days later, it was his own mother who was spreading the message. It wasn’t tiptoed around. Because it was just so freaking accepted in their crowd of friends. Have a few (or more), drive home. And enough was enough.
Unfortunately, immediately following a tragedy like this, when it is on everyone’s minds, is the easiest way to spread the message. Otherwise it falls on deaf ears. People are very upset, here and elsewhere, that people are jumping to conclusions. But if this wasn’t an ongoing issue, would that conclusion be jumped to? There is enough of it around that speculation was immediate. That’s a shame in itself.
If he was stone cold sober, then hopefully folks will realize that it is the well known culture tarnishing his name, and DO SOMETHING about it. Since people are going to talk no matter what, maybe having the talk out in the open will prompt some changes so that a) if intoxication was involved it is less likely to happen again and/or b) if intoxication wasn’t involved people will realize how well known the culture is now, and do something about it so that the next innocent accident is not tarred in speculation.
Again, sincere condolences to all those involved in the nightmare. Like mentioned above, I doubt they are reading this, but if anyone is, know that despite my two cents that may or may not be agreed with, I truly am sorry for the loss.
“it seems so strange (to me) to be offering condolences on a forum expecting that the families are on here reading them”
I truly don’t think anyone expects them to be reading this COTH forum at all (though possible, but probably not at this time). I think it is just a way of putting some condolences “out there” and acting as a kind & supportive equestrian community.
At the risk of sounding totally old-fashioned, I don’t get that. Putting a condolence “out there” does no good for the family and really just is about making the people posting feel better or somehow involved. It seems narcissistic to me, however well-intentioned. It is akin to knowing there are hungry people in your town and putting food out in the middle of the woods hoping they find it. It makes you feel better but actually does nothing productive.
Awful… Prayers for all his and her family and friends.
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