I’d love to hear peoples thoughts on these stallions to add size and ride-ability. Also anyone know anything about their semen quality?
CARDENTO
It’s too early to say with my Cardento colt (DOB May 2009) but he is looks like he’s on track to be what I wanted:
Height: He’ll be at least as tall as my 3yo Coromino gelding who is already 16.2-3hh. The Coromino gelding is o/o a 16hh mare with taller ancestors, but my Cardento colt is o/o a buxom Rio Grande girl who’s 16.2hh, with even taller family.
In short, he’ll be tall.
Rideability: Well, I try hard to breed for that first and foremost, and researched the thing to death before I made stallion choices. My Rio Grande mare is very sensitive so I wanted to add more generosity, as it were, to the mix. Of course this boy is too young to say but so far, I am very pleased!
Semen: One dose, one pregnancy.
I’ve been around 3-4 Cardento’s, all of riding age (but I haven’t ridden them myself) and they were all BIG and pretty laid back. I can’t tell you about their dams, so I don’t know if they mares were also big and quiet, but these guys were all super jumpers, ranged from 16.2-17 hands and had really easy-going temperaments. It is my understanding that Cardento is known to throw big, with a pretty decent temperament.
I bred a to him last year (2 cycles, 1 dose each time) and she did not settle. However, even though she did get pregnant later with fresh-cooled, I would chalk this up to a mare problem (she is older, too). The semen looked great under the microscope, and there have been plenty of pregnancies with the frozen, so I wouldn’t worry about the quality.
I am not speaking from experience, but have been told that Cardento adds leg and blood. He is very blooded after all Capitol/Lord/Sacrom. Song xx/ Marconi, but his dam did not have the straighest of legs. You would not use him if your mares doesn’t have good front legs. I also believe he breeds better for the advanced rider if my memory serves me correct. Hope that helps.
Tim
I own a beautiful Caretino filly from Cardento’s full sister so I am very intimate with his family. Cardento doesn’t have the best topline , or legs. He is really long in his pasterns. He throws a Lord head sometimes. He can be a little tough to ride and he wasn’t initilally approved in Holstein but his outstanding performance granted his approval later. He is a good stallion and has produced inter.competitors in Sweden.
He is from one of the very best families stamm 741. Cardento’s mother is also grandmother to Quintender.
Respectfully, we all know that full siblings often look nothing like each other, so I don’t see how this makes you intimate with Cardento himself.
I haven’t seen one single image on video or a photograph that remotely suggests really long pasterns and/or a bad topline, or indeed, being difficult to ride. Quite the opposite, in fact. My colt does not have really long pasterns and is really, really really nicely put together!
Again, perhaps one should consider the prospective mare’s own characteristics. OP, you might want to read the article on degrees of HERITABILTY (both talent and conformation parts) on my site, written by Dr Ludwig Christmann of the German Hanoverian Society.
Good luck!
[QUOTE=GGStables;4691584]
Respectfully, we all know that full siblings often look nothing like each other, so I don’t see how this makes you intimate with Cardento himself.
I haven’t seen one single image on video or a photograph that remotely suggests really long pasterns and/or a bad topline, or indeed, being difficult to ride. Quite the opposite, in fact. My colt does not have really long pasterns and is really, really really nicely put together!
Again, perhaps one should consider the prospective mare’s own characteristics. OP, you might want to read the article on degrees of HERITABILTY (both talent and conformation parts) on my site, written by Dr Ludwig Christmann of the German Hanoverian Society.
Good luck![/QUOTE]
Respectfully , I have seen him on multiple occassions and even scratched his nose a time or two. I have also scrathed the nose of his mother and full sister. I have also had multiple conversations with his rider and breeder and indeed he can be a little tricky to ride.
Your words are evidence of some of the very conversations we are currently having about not being intimate with the horses and their families you are breeding with. You said " I haven’t seen one image or video that suggests any of this" . You see…here we have the problem. You haven’t seen Cardento , you haven’t spoken to his breeder Reimer Witt , you haven’t visited the ground where his family stands and you obviously haven’t spoken to his Olympic pilot. But you have seen those awesome images.
You are right about the full sibling thing. Sometimes they are not alike but in this case I believe his full sister to be better than he phenotypically. Of course she didn’t jump in the Olympics though because she was too busy having babies.
I probably shouldn’t have said really long but they are a little long and very upright. Maybe when you do see him in person , you will see that his pasterns are alittle long and upright and in the case of his left front, angled out slightly. Maybe when you see him , you will see that his topline is a little weak from wither to croup. This is very typical of the Capitol sons. Why do you think he didn’t get approved on his own merits ? He had to prove himself in the sport.
I am a big fan of Cardento and am friends with the family that made him…I am also a big fan of recognizing weaknesses in the stallions I breed with. Would I or will I use Cardento ? Absolutely, but it will surely be with a very noble mare with a good topline and legs.
valid information
i dunno bayhawk. yu’da thunk folks’d a learned by now.
:no:
[QUOTE=ne1;4691704]
i dunno bayhawk. yu’da thunk folks’d a learned by now.
:no:[/QUOTE]
they can’t learn Nick…they’re too busy looking at images and not physically looking at horses and the families of those horses much less actually talking to their breeders or riders for heavens sake !
Lucky you that you have seen him! I didn’t jet over to see him in person and certainly didn’t suggest that. But no matter how pathetic the rest of us may be in your estimate, there is absolutely no need for either of you to be so unspeakably rude! 
:mad:
As has been explained a million times on this board, most breeders cannot afford to fly overseas to see the sire(s) they consider no matter how much they’d like to, and so, must rely heavily on alternative sources for evaluation of a stallion. This is partly why stallion DVD’s, internet research and breeder networking platforms exist. It is also why we ask each other on forums like these about their experiences / impressions, etc. See? :yes:
FWIW I did contact folks who rode him as well, but in any event, most of us understand that the information provided here is ours to reject, verify or receive as gospel, and generally provide input without needing to belittle others at every opportunity.
Sorry, OP – for the hostility. Over and out.
[QUOTE=GGStables;4691953]
Lucky you that you have seen him! I didn’t jet over to see him in person and certainly didn’t suggest that. But no matter how pathetic the rest of us may be in your estimate, there is absolutely no need for either of you to be so unspeakably rude! :mad:
As has been explained a million times on this board, most breeders cannot afford to fly overseas to see the sire(s) they consider no matter how much they’d like to, and so, must rely heavily on alternative sources for evaluation of a stallion. This is partly why stallion DVD’s, internet research and breeder networking platforms exist. It is also why we ask each other on forums like these about their experiences / impressions, etc. See? :yes:
FWIW I did contact folks who rode him as well, but in any event, most of us understand that the information provided here is ours to reject, verify or receive as gospel, and generally provide input without needing to belittle others at every opportunity.
Sorry, OP – for the hostility. Over and out.[/QUOTE]
Rude ? No one was rude to you. I simply responded to the Op’s appeal for info. I gave what I knew and you challenged me with your statement of how I could possibly have intimate knowledge of Cardento given my previous post.
This was certainly your right, and I certainly wasn’t offended by it, but when I explained to you that I had been all over Cardento like his own gray coat , well…it made your challenge look silly and you got offended. I am involved with these horses , their families and their breeders. You are involved with images.
Speaking of images…I would direct you to your image of Cardento on your very own website. If you look at the photo you have of him posted, you will see his pasterns are almost vertical. This is one of his faults breeders should be aware of when selecting a mare for this awesome stallion.
I have been accused of having an abrupt writing style. I can accuse you and several others of not having thick enough skins. We will not learn more if one accuses one of being rude and one of being thin skinned. Lets meet in the middle , learn from one another , and all breed better horses because of it.
One more thing…this not being able to fly to Germany excuse is wearing really thin. For the cost of Cardento’s semen, you could fly to Holstein for the week and learn about his family and speak with his breeder about him. This would put you way ahead in how to use him.
Have a good day !
I think that is alot of the problem many of the breeders here are up against. The extreme value of the many fine stallions in Europe and the limited amount of valid information to evaluate them as a match for our mares. That probably holds true of domestic stallions as well as big as this country is – trying to match off photos, videos and word of mouth or even pedigree. It’s a daunting task. Hopefully breeders who have that knowledge and experience will continue to share the good and bad so wise choices can be made.
What about Chacco Blue – I don’t think he’s been commented about yet.
Cheers!
PennyG
[QUOTE=TKR;4692491]
I think that is alot of the problem many of the breeders here are up against. The extreme value of the many fine stallions in Europe and the limited amount of valid information to evaluate them as a match for our mares. That probably holds true of domestic stallions as well as big as this country is – trying to match off photos, videos and word of mouth or even pedigree. It’s a daunting task. Hopefully breeders who have that knowledge and experience will continue to share the good and bad so wise choices can be made.
What about Chacco Blue – I don’t think he’s been commented about yet.
Cheers!
PennyG[/QUOTE]
You’re exactly right Penny. It is a daunting task but you can’t give in. You must glean as much information about the stallions and mares you breed with. Too many times when I’m out and about do I see the exact wrong stallion bred to the exact wrong mare. Stallions who need tall framey mares with elegance and nobility are bred to small , shortlegged mares. It’s never ending because of the lack of knowledge.
In the other thread , I continue to dismiss the stallions for a reason. At this point in America , it doesn’t matter if they are young or old, proven or juvenile…there’s too many of them. We need better mares and need more education about the mares.
I have a really special Holsteiner mare here. Her half brother by Quidam de Revel was approved in Nuemunster last fall. Her full sister also had a stallion selected and her full brother previously won the prestigious Grand Prix of Stuggart. She herself has had 7 foals for me so at this point I am very deep into the knowledge of my mare and her immediate family.
Someone was asking me the other day who I was going to breed her to this year. I said it doesn’t matter, I can breed her to any number of stallions. The answer to the question is knowing who not to breed her to.
Sorry, forgot…I don’t know enough about Chacco Blue to make an educated statement. Maybe someone else can jump in on him ?
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;4692134]
Speaking of images…I would direct you to your image of Cardento on your very own website. If you look at the photo you have of him posted, you will see his pasterns are almost vertical. [/QUOTE]
The photo of Cardento on GGs website shows him jumping Is it perhaps Coromino you are talking about? Because he sure has very upright pasterns in the photo GG has on her site.
[QUOTE=Cloverbarley;4692605]
The photo of Cardento on GGs website shows him jumping Is it perhaps Coromino you are talking about? Because he sure has very upright pasterns in the photo GG has on her site.[/QUOTE]
No ,there are two photos of Cardento. Click on his foal “Capitol something” and scroll down and you should see the side conf. shot.
Ah I got it now. Yes I see what you mean, definitely upright to my eyes too.
Measure twice, cut once…
The photo only supports the reality. This isn’t always the case. That is why we must see them in person, see their mothers and siblings. There is no substitue. Advocating anything less is just mere mediocrity. I hope all “Novice Breeders” learn this lesson. Photo’s and videos are not replacements for direct, and intimate knowledge of these horses and how they breed. I also hope they learn that it is financially worth it to take the time to learn as well. Less time and money will be spent chasing a goal that will not materialize. You will only find yourself defending your past and not building off your legacy. Measure twice, cut once… comes to mind.
Tim
Hi All: I know it is hard for many who have not had the chance to see stallions and their offspring, siblings, etc in person. A lot of comments are on perspective and no one can see all the offspring, that is also why we take a lot of data from the inspections, etc. And everyone here is to learn and share information. So, this is a good thing.
I have seen him, bred to him, see many offspring and we carry his frozen. He bred mostly first in Sweden and what I had heard up their that he throws blood type foals. But, when I bred to him, I didn’t see that he was refining. A lot could have to do with the Swedish warmblood base. I do know that they have super characters, trainability and a super jump. They are very athletic with good movement. I didn’t see anything in the offspring with weak pasterns and he himself has good strong ones. My Cardento colt has a weak loin and probably my biggest thing I would recommend be strong on the mares. Maybe that is where the topline question comes. Topline is such a general term.
Kathy
[QUOTE=Majestic Gaits;4695219]
Hi All: I know it is hard for many who have not had the chance to see stallions and their offspring, siblings, etc in person. A lot of comments are on perspective and no one can see all the offspring, that is also why we take a lot of data from the inspections, etc. And everyone here is to learn and share information. So, this is a good thing.
I have seen him, bred to him, see many offspring and we carry his frozen. He bred mostly first in Sweden and what I had heard up their that he throws blood type foals. But, when I bred to him, I didn’t see that he was refining. A lot could have to do with the Swedish warmblood base. I do know that they have super characters, trainability and a super jump. They are very athletic with good movement. I didn’t see anything in the offspring with weak pasterns and he himself has good strong ones. My Cardento colt has a weak loin and probably my biggest thing I would recommend be strong on the mares. Maybe that is where the topline question comes. Topline is such a general term.
Kathy[/QUOTE]
Yeah…see this is where the disconnect comes from. You have people like me who just spout off what to look for because it’s almost second nature now at this stage. It needs to be explained in more detail.
You say your Cardento has a weak loin ? This is what I was referring to about Cardento’s topine. I say “pay attention to the topline” because I am able to pick out the weakness in the whole topline. I need to say , pay attention to the loin area.
I say pay attention to his pasterns , because they are very upright and you come back and say they are very strong which is absolutely correct. they are strong , but they are also incorrect. We just don’t want to perpetuate these flaws in the mare we choose for him.
The best description of Cardento is I think a healthy mixture of the two. I’ll give it a better whirl…
1)Cardento generally adds size to his offspring.
2) He generally throws alot of movement and jump on his offspring.
3)He generally throws good temperments but he himself was a little difficult in the bridle.
4)He has a weak topline , especially his loin.
5)He has strong pasterns but they are very upright and incorrect.
6)he can throw not so pretty heads(Lord) sometimes.
7)I would choose a mare that was very good to ride , is very noble and elegant with good pasterns and a good , strong loin.
