[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7105722]
Don’t tar everyone with the same brush, Velvet.[/QUOTE]
:lol: You just proved my point.
You also must not have read my post. You just knee-jerked. I didn’t tar anyone with one brush. I pointed out the various behaviors.
BTW, I guess it’s brooms.
[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;7105042]
The pot calling the kettle black:)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Velvet;7105828]:lol: You just proved my point.
You also must not have read my post. You just knee-jerked. I didn’t tar anyone with one brush. I pointed out the various behaviors.
BTW, I guess it’s brooms.[/QUOTE]
Oh so it’s like Candy Crush where you can paint with different colors?
I don’t think it’s brooms. Even witches have more class and structure. I’d say here its more like a dirty mop.
Late to the lynching but this lady sure pushed a bunch of buttons.
“Dressage” is an ADVANCED specialization which should only be undertaken by those who ride VERY WELL. That means, they have an independent seat, free use of their hands to give, take, or steady, they are happy and confident on the horse and have ALREADY mastered Basic Flat Work, in which category I would place everything short of actual full collection.
Most of the riders out there today who think they are “doing dressage” are actually attempting, often times with limited success, to do “basic flat work.” The nasty truth is that if you cannot sit your horse effectively and automatically while he performs a walk, trot, and canter on straight lines and circles, you haven’t the skills to put him in collection. By the same token, a horse which is not confirmed in doing that walk, trot, and canter on those same straight or curving lines without a lot of work from the rider is not remotely ready, either.
The run-of-the-mill I see who THINK what they are doing is “dressage” are often a subset of overmounted, timid, older women lacking in the courage, fitness and work ethic required to even make their horses perform 3 gaits credibly in their own home ring. A huge percentage of them would rather have a trainer provide them with an excuse (saddle fit, nutrition, chiro, yoga, Fedenkrais, you name it) that gets them OUT of having to spend much time sitting in the tack and riding the horse forward.
They want their hands held and their egos stroked. Most trainers are more than happy to take their money for 45 minutes of “20-m circle left, 20-m. circle right.”
The preponderance of these clients cannot score a 60 at First Level and will never see Second. This is not “dressage.”
If an upper-level trainer is tired of wasting her time on these types I for one can’t blame her and I think it’s a sign of integrity. They are not ready to “do dressage” at all. For the same reason, George Morris doesn’t spend much time teaching people at the mane-grabbing crossrail level. I don’t have a problem with that. . .
Damn. :lol:
For our next discussion -why are people leaving dressage for other disciplines? I have no idea myself. I mean they say that the sport is full of intolerant snobs, but I don’t see that. Do you? :lol:
Paula
[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7105465]
LOL! We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
Paula[/QUOTE]
LMAO… can I co-opt this for my new sig line? Pretty please?
Meanwhile, as a fellow snail…
I take 2-3 lessons a week with my very good professional. She has known me for many years, way back into my hunter days. I am sure there are days when she must heave a big ol’ sigh at my hunter habits, (roll your shoulders BACK!) but she has worked tirelessly over the last year to teach me the basics of dressage. My horse is now competent at third level (with her) and first level (with me) which I’d consider fairly acceptable progress.
In return I am always happy to support her efforts to get top training for herself. She regularly brings in BNTs for clinics, and does a wonderful job hosting them. Some are purely educational events for us - like the young rider development clinics she hosted, where none of us rode, but all of us watched (Jeremy Steinberg is freaking amazing) and others are riding opportunities. My trainer knows that there are a core group of her clients who will all make sure that the clinics she puts on are well attended and supported financially; that’s because in addition to enjoying the opportunity to ride with some very talented people, we also understand that the training SHE gets at those events also benefits us down the road - she gets new exercises or more insight or whatever. It’s a win-win and has nothing at all to do with ego. And, as I’ve stated before, none of the BNTs who have come to the farm have appeared anything less than happy to teach any of us, myself included as the lowest level rider on the team.
:lol: Have at.
My favorite dressage trainer came to dressage from another discipline. She thought she could ride like the devil, but was stymied by dressage (by her own description). Fortunately for her she didn’t run into Lady Eboshi or CHS, but encountered a trainer who undid all her bad habits, pushed her hard, and now she has all her medals and she’s an excellent trainer herself. She and the person who brought her along (who happens to be German :lol:) are serious riders who’s students progress.
Paula
[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7105879]
:lol: Have at.
My favorite dressage trainer came to dressage from another discipline. She thought she could ride like the devil, but was stymied by dressage (by her own description). Fortunately for her she didn’t run into Lady Eboshi or CHS, but encountered a trainer who undid all her bad habits, pushed her hard, and now she has all her medals and she’s an excellent trainer herself. She and the person who brought her along (who happens to be German :lol:) are serious riders who’s students progress.
Paula[/QUOTE]
Ah, thank you 
I think that fortunately, there are quite a few really good TRAINERS out there who are willing to work with anyone who has the desire to learn and the willingness to work at it. They’re the ones who are going to be the foundation and saviors of this sport.
I just went back and read the comments CHS has added to her blog post and find them pretty laughable. Between the backpedaling and the protestations of innocence, it’s clear that she’s gotten the message, whether she overtly admits to it or not. I also thought it was pretty funny that she felt compelled to claim she has received several new invitations to do clinics since writing her blog. I wonder if she has mentally tallied up the number of invitations she will now never receive as a result of indulging her inclination to be so, er… “blunt.”
[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7105863]
Damn. :lol:
For our next discussion -why are people leaving dressage for other disciplines? I have no idea myself. I mean they say that the sport is full of intolerant snobs, but I don’t see that. Do you? :lol:
Paula[/QUOTE]
“Years, Rita! These people are trying like hell to learn the most basic principles of riding and are struggling along at the pace of a rabid garden snail.”
How can anyone not read this as being anything but sympathetic for those riders who lack competent and effective trainers?
[QUOTE=alicen;7105904]
“Years, Rita! These people are trying like hell to learn the most basic principles of riding and are struggling along at the pace of a rabid garden snail.”
How can anyone not read this as being anything but sympathetic for those riders who lack competent and effective trainers?[/QUOTE]
Meh… that’s kind of like saying McDonalds patrons lack competent and effective chefs to cook for them…
[QUOTE=Isabeau Z Solace;7105934]
Meh… that’s kind of like saying McDonalds patrons lack competent and effective chefs to cook for them…[/QUOTE]
I fail to see the similarity between eating a big mac and taking a dressage lesson.
Market forces are the same. The market provides what will sell.
Have any of you nay sayers ever met Catherine in person, audited a clinic or taken a lesson from her either privately or in a clinic environment?
[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7105863]
Damn. :lol:
For our next discussion -why are people leaving dressage for other disciplines? I have no idea myself. I mean they say that the sport is full of intolerant snobs, but I don’t see that. Do you? :lol:
Paula[/QUOTE]
people are leaving because we lack GOOD TRAINERS that can teach the basics… so folks end up not progressing… aka moving at the pace of a garden snail.
you folks are really really amazing! you have someone voicing loud and clear what is wrong with dressage (ie why ammies don’t progress as they should) and you eat the person alive.
i wonder how many pros will ever speak up in your defense again?
[QUOTE=Isabeau Z Solace;7105934]
Meh… that’s kind of like saying McDonalds patrons lack competent and effective chefs to cook for them…[/QUOTE]
But you didn’t address my queston about the sympathetic aspects to my posted CH quote.
What is your definition of an “effective” trainer?
Mine is someone who has a proven program that produces, year in and year out, effective riders on suitable horses, who perform well up to the rule-book standard both at home and at shows, and does this with good horsemanship and stable management such that the horses are sound, healthy, and pleasant to be around.
The key word here is “effective.” Trainers whose clients who stay at the bottom of the training progression forever, doing a lot of nothing except chit-chat interspersed with strolls around the arena, are not “effective” at anything except cashing checks. Not that I have a problem with that, we all need to pay our bills. The problem is, when you teach these kinds of people without everlastingly blowing sunshine up their arses, you won’t last very long!
I have told people "If you want to go to the shows and be competitive, you need to ride 4-5 days a week with a PLAN in a cohesive program designed to incrementally attain your goals. This might include a LOT of riding without stirrups, a LOT of hacking out to get the horse some back and haunch muscles and some kind trust for his rider, and a LOT of working the horse in the arena.
It will also include a LOT of homework–you have to have self-discipline YOURSELF! Hearing this, divas who love attention bail out . . .
It is hard to get better at something you are not working on. Yet here’s what you hear: “Oh, sorry, I’ll be away then.” “I can’t, my daughter’s coming home from college.” “I can’t ride, he has Central Sulcus Thrush” or “Oh, the chiropractor says he needs a week off.” My vet went off into a rant the other day about not understanding what riders want any more–she had just told one lady her horse is sound, go ride it fer chrissakes, and the owner was DISAPPOINTED!
She didn’t know what to say to her. I told her, welcome to Munchausen-by-proxy syndrome, equestrian division!
The trainers who make money coaching the lower-level people are the ones who take self-discipline out of their hands by ordering them to Do Something for 45 minutes–while they talk “dressage.” Tell them everything they do is maaa-velous, daahling, and did you lose weight? never mentioning they’re overmounted by an order of magnitude, have no seat and are scared stiff, all the while repeating over and over in their heads, the check will clear and I’ll be out of here in 20 minutes. I’ve been watching this circus for 25 years!
You want to do “capital D” Dressage for REAL, it requires more self-honesty than most people have, a VERY purpose-bred horse which means plenty of bucks behind you, and one HELL of a work ethic to go out there and sweat, crash, cuss, and bleed just like the eventing and jumper riders do. It requires an athlete’s body and a gigantic time commitment.
Training the average horse to do basic flat, OTOH, used to be handled by local riding schools, who got it done rather better!
CH put a long rant full of shouting in a Facebook post. If you want to be a professional, the first thing you have to learn is how to treat the people who pay you. I’m starting to understand why she had problems a few years ago with U.S. team officials. A finely honed ability to pronounce yourself queen for a day is not the best way to influence people. I’d rather spend my training money on someone who respects my effort as much as I respect their knowledge and ability to communicate. By and large, American riders work hard and in isolation much of the time because of geography and the absurd prices people like CH charge. Every word dropping from a trainer’s mouth is not, in fact, worth gold - or $2-$3 per minute. Bullying tactics and denigrating language are designed to hurt people’s self-confidence and have no place in teaching. I’ve seen great teachers give lower level riders a world of confidence. Maybe she’s just a crappy teacher. It’s the bad teacher who blames the student.
[QUOTE=Ibex;7102291]
Wow. I now have that much more respect for a couple of VERY BNTs I’ve watched that will happily teach us lowly, imperfect ammies, provided students turn up ready to learn and to make an effort.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, no kidding. If she’s so bent out of shape that trainers aren’t sending her students that will “honor” her and her skill set, why doesn’t she dig a heap of them up out of USDF’s list of people who have earned medals below her rank, donate her time to teaching them pro bono and tell them to spread the word of her “great talent” to more of the same so she can fill her clinics with “proper” material. If it doesn’t catch on, I guess the rest of us have just decided we can muck on without her. If amateurs could get all the holes in their training put right by a local trainer, why they would have to bother to pay for her??? Personally, I think her teaching the lower level riders and filling in those holes is a GREAT way to help advance the sport. If the foundation is weak, everything on top of it will be as well.
THIS is a perfect example of how this sport can continue to shrink…with more people thinking like this one. Hopefully her bank account will shrink as well.
[QUOTE=norton;7106001]
CH put a long rant full of shouting in a Facebook post. If you want to be a professional, the first thing you have to learn is how to treat the people who pay you. I’m starting to understand why she had problems a few years ago with U.S. team officials. A finely honed ability to pronounce yourself queen for a day is not the best way to influence people. I’d rather spend my training money on someone who respects my effort as much as I respect their knowledge and ability to communicate. By and large, American riders work hard and in isolation much of the time because of geography and the absurd prices people like CH charge. Every word dropping from a trainer’s mouth is not, in fact, worth gold - or $2-$3 per minute. Bullying tactics and denigrating language are designed to hurt people’s self-confidence and have no place in teaching. I’ve seen great teachers give lower level riders a world of confidence. Maybe she’s just a crappy teacher. It’s the bad teacher who blames the student.[/QUOTE]
That’s a fact!
[QUOTE=not again;7105960]
Have any of you nay sayers ever met Catherine in person, audited a clinic or taken a lesson from her either privately or in a clinic environment?[/QUOTE]
Nope, but I surely won’t now! I’m going to keep all my toys packed up, ready to be played with in company of someone who isn’t projecting to me that they expect to be honored as the Queen, even though they are far from being in line for the throne…
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